There was a thread where the latest possible PCI cards for top 486 boards were listed. AFAIK nothing above a TNT2 can work. Even if the card has universal PCI connector it does not conform to older PCI standards neither it has a compatible BIOS.

Fastest PCI graphics card in a 486

Ive seen people use Radeon 9250 in Amiga computers, so i guess ATi has more chance of working in an 486.

Forget about the 486, it is not the primary usage. It is for a new Socket 8 build with PCI only slots.

Things I'm wondering about:

- Performance in Windows Direct3D & OpenGL. Is it almost the same as the AGP version?
- Driver support, any quirks here?
- Noise

Jolaes: I found this thread Modern graphics on a 486 after creating the thread we're in now. It seems it could run in DOS on a 486 (based on the GF2MX), but not in Windows.

Stojke wrote:

Ive seen people use Radeon 9250 in Amiga computers, so i guess ATi has more chance of working in an 486.

That requires both a PCI busboard with extra logic and a specific driver for workbench... the amiga PCI implementation is a custom one

I tried both it and a PCI 6200 in a dual Socket 8 Dell OptiPlex GXpro. Wouldn't POST.

(Nor would a Radeon 7500. A GeForce 2, however, worked without issues. Go figure.)

Maybe it is just a matter of compatibility with motherboard, but this guy runs GeForce 8400 GS PCI on a Dual Socket 8 system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK5QFySGpy4

As you can see Quake III works just fine 😁

GeForce MX 4000 PCI had no problems booting with my Asus TX97 from what I recall; didn't get it into Windows and install drivers (no errors, just didn't feel like it) - booted FreeDOS and UBCD applications mostly (I remember Superscape being OK). From using the card in previous systems (faster CPUs ofc) 3D performance is alright for older games - don't expect to run Halo or anything, but it shouldn't have an issue with something like Quake III. With a Pentium Pro you'll probably be more limited by the CPU anyways.

WRT FX 5500 specifically - if memory serves the DVI outputs on cards from that era tended to be less-than-perfect unless you were dealing with a pro-grade card (like Quadro or FireGL). I don't know if that would or wouldn't be the case for that card, just something I thought about. I'd also add that you might want to look at FX 5200s - PCI versions with DVI look to average around $15, and you will get essentially the same performance (FX 5200 and 5500 are basically the same card).

If you wanted to go with something older with DVI, I know the mac edition of the Voodoo 5 has DVI, and reportedly can be flashed to a PC BIOS. I also vaguely remember the Radeon AIW 7000/7500 having DVI and being available as a PCI card. Again, no idea what the DVI output quality is like (or if it's even a valid concern).

obobskivich wrote:

GeForce MX 4000 PCI had no problems booting with my Asus TX97 from what I recall; didn't get it into Windows and install drivers (no errors, just didn't feel like it) - booted FreeDOS and UBCD applications mostly (I remember Superscape being OK). From using the card in previous systems (faster CPUs ofc) 3D performance is alright for older games - don't expect to run Halo or anything, but it shouldn't have an issue with something like Quake III. With a Pentium Pro you'll probably be more limited by the CPU anyways.

WRT FX 5500 specifically - if memory serves the DVI outputs on cards from that era tended to be less-than-perfect unless you were dealing with a pro-grade card (like Quadro or FireGL). I don't know if that would or wouldn't be the case for that card, just something I thought about. I'd also add that you might want to look at FX 5200s - PCI versions with DVI look to average around $15, and you will get essentially the same performance (FX 5200 and 5500 are basically the same card).

If you wanted to go with something older with DVI, I know the mac edition of the Voodoo 5 has DVI, and reportedly can be flashed to a PC BIOS. I also vaguely remember the Radeon AIW 7000/7500 having DVI and being available as a PCI card. Again, no idea what the DVI output quality is like (or if it's even a valid concern).

I'm not expecting wonders. I just want a card with DVI output which also works in DOS. AFAIK only Nvidia DVI does this to a good degree. I own the 5950FX in my 440BX setup and the DVI output there is very good. I know others have tried DVI output from an 9200 Radeon card and while it works well in Windows, it fails in DOS. How to record gameplay footage from Win98SE or older ?!

FX 5200 seems like a good option as well 😀 The Voodoo5 PCI with DVI is just too expensive, but it would've been a great choice. I'm going Voodoo2 SLI for Glide power 😀

vetz wrote:

I'm not expecting wonders. I just want a card with DVI output which also works in DOS. AFAIK only Nvidia DVI does this to a good degree. I own the 5950FX in my 440BX setup and the DVI output there is very good. I know others have tried DVI output from an 9200 Radeon card and while it works well in Windows, it fails in DOS. How to record gameplay footage from Win98SE or older ?!

FX 5200 seems like a good option as well 😀 The Voodoo5 PCI with DVI is just too expensive, but it would've been a great choice. I'm going Voodoo2 SLI for Glide power 😀

The DVI thing was based on this kind of thing: http://www.extremetech.com/electronics/55254- … liance-shootout

I think higher end cards like the 5800/5900 are generally going to be AOK, but the cheaper cards tended to not fare as well in that comparison. I don't know if this matters for your purposes or would even effect the specific card you're looking at, it's just something I remember hearing people bemoan years ago regarding less expensive cards and DVI monitors (which, at the time, weren't all that common).

Really random idea I just had: what about a Matrox card? I know some of the later G/P cards have DVI and are PCI, but I have no idea what their driver support for legacy is like. Doubt they'd cost very much either.

Like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matrox-G450-32MB-Dual … =item338ef05176

Or this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matrox-G550-Low-Profi … =item3cce31d071

EDIT

Had another idea after posting - there's a PCI Quadro FX, the FX 600, which is based on the FX 5200 Ultra. Found this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nvidia-PNY-VCQFX600-P … =item3a8b34d116

Same price as the 5500, but would be faster and guarantees the 128-bit memory bus. Also has dual DVI and 3-pin stereo. Basically it should be a "nicer" card. I don't think there's a PCI 5200 Ultra, which probably makes the FX 600 one of the faster PCI graphics cards (at least that are easily available).

EDIT 2

Did a quick look for drivers, nVidia has drivers for FX 600 for Windows 95, here:
http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/11/en-us

And NT4:
http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/30/en-us

Matrox's website wasn't as easy to plod through looking for drivers - but I'd expect the G450 to probably work, given the age. AFAIK G550 is pretty similar.

VooDooMan wrote:

Maybe it is just a matter of compatibility with motherboard, but this guy runs GeForce 8400 GS PCI on a Dual Socket 8 system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK5QFySGpy4

As you can see Quake III works just fine 😁

Quite possible. It uses the i440FX chipset, so I expected fairly decent compatibility, but who knows what Dell errata were introduced. (I've always wanted to try the black PPro 1megs in it but I'm too afraid to as the docs don't support it and I'm afraid I'll burn up the VRMs).

I always did find Q3 to be fairly playable on a PPro. Much better than an equivalent Pentium.

First, thanks for checking out options for me, appreciate it 😀

obobskivich wrote:

The DVI thing was based on this kind of thing: http://www.extremetech.com/electronics/55254- … liance-shootout

I think higher end cards like the 5800/5900 are generally going to be AOK, but the cheaper cards tended to not fare as well in that comparison. I don't know if this matters for your purposes or would even effect the specific card you're looking at, it's just something I remember hearing people bemoan years ago regarding less expensive cards and DVI monitors (which, at the time, weren't all that common).

Might have been a problem earlier, but the PCI cards you can buy new on Ebay are produced at a much later date. Alucard86 and Mau1wurf1977 here on VOGONS are using a FX5500 AGP card for DVI. They have reported no problems.

obobskivich wrote:

Really random idea I just had: what about a Matrox card? I know some of the later G/P cards have DVI and are PCI, but I have no idea what their driver support for legacy is like. Doubt they'd cost very much either.

They don't show DOS, only Windows in DVI mode AFAIK (based on personal experience with the G200+ and this post by Retro games 100). This makes them not suitable I'm afraid.

obobskivich wrote:

Had another idea after posting - there's a PCI Quadro FX, the FX 600, which is based on the FX 5200 Ultra. Found this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nvidia-PNY-VCQFX600-P … =item3a8b34d116

Same price as the 5500, but would be faster and guarantees the 128-bit memory bus. Also has dual DVI and 3-pin stereo. Basically it should be a "nicer" card. I don't think there's a PCI 5200 Ultra, which probably makes the FX 600 one of the faster PCI graphics cards (at least that are easily available).

It's an option, but DVI won't solve all problems in DOS. There are special resolutions which does not get upscaled/distorted like Jazz Jackrabbit ( Oddball resolution in Jazz Jackrabbit causes Fraps to restart recording when resolution changes ). I would prefer having VGA output as well as DVI.

Yes I can confirm that FX5200 AGP card work fine on Super Socket 7 boards. I have three brands / versions of this card and it's perfect for DOS as it clones the image on VGA and DVI. Perfect for capturing while you play.

Just to note, the FX 600 will do VGA via VGA-DVI adapters (it still has dual VGA outputs inside those DVI-I connectors). Same will apply to any other GeForce FX card with DVI outputs (and most newer cards at least up through GeForce 200 series).

Very cool!

Anyone know if the Quadro cards in clone mode through both DVI ports under DOS?

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Very cool!

Anyone know if the Quadro cards in clone mode through both DVI ports under DOS?

I would guess no - most nVidia cards that I've owned or seen over time tend to only start up their primary monitor when running in text-only/VGA modes; it takes booting into Windows (or starting X under *nix, etc) to enable multi-monitor. Most ATi cards, however, will clone their outputs in the same situation. I forget what my 3DLabs card does - I can check tomorrow if I remember (it has two DVI outputs, but it's an AGP card). I may be wrong though - I'm just basing this on observing nVidia and ATi cards booting into BIOS, POSTing, running UBCD, initializing Puppy/etc BEs, installing Windows, etc over the years not specifically running DOS as a mounted OS and starting a game or something.

I found all FX series cards to clone under DOS / BIOS. But I haven't tried the Quadro yet to check if it does the same through dual DVI.

But yes, all other Nvidia cards I tried don't clone under DOS / BIOS.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

I found all FX series cards to clone under DOS / BIOS. But I haven't tried the Quadro yet to check if it does the same through dual DVI.

But yes, all other Nvidia cards I tried don't clone under DOS / BIOS.

My FX 1700 doesn't clone, but it isn't GeForce FX based. 😵

UPDATE

Got a chance to try other cards -

FX 5800 Ultra: Both displays active from start-up, shows card BIOS, POST, OS loading, etc
VP880Pro: Only one display active from start-up, must enable additional monitors in Windows
FX 1700: Confirmed only one display active from start-up, must enable additional monitors in Windows (I would suspect the GeForce 8400GS would behave similarly, as they're both G8x chips; that's the only reason I bring this one up)

Bought one of these, but... it will NOT work on my Slot1 BX-board (Abit BH6). 😵
Looks identical to this thing, only the fan itself has slightly different markings, and has a clear fan cable:
http://www.ebay.com/221872466543

- Card fan spins and all, and I can turn off the mobo without any issues, but there is NO PICTURE from either DVI nor VGA port, nomatter what PCI slot I try.

While putting the card onto a socket478 P4 Asus board, there suddenly seems to be no problem getting a picture..... go figure.

And a bog standard S3 2MB card works without a hitch on that same BX board and same slots, so it must be something 'wrong' (?) with that FX5500 card.... 😒

Only tested boot process so far.

I know my board works fine with the similar FX5200 PCI version (fanless), so what is really going on here ?
And even a 6800 Ultra AGP card works on that slot1 mobo, so what is so darn special about this FX5500 PCI model..... ???

Should be no reason to change anything (what?) in the BIOS, right ?
As the other (2MB S3) PCI card works fine with current setup...

.

Vetz, I have my AMD K6-III-450 setup with a GF FX5500 PCI on a 430tx board. I have w98, NT4, W2K, and XPsp3 installed on that machine. Is there any thing you want me to test for? I remember comparing this card to the GF2MX with Quake III and the FX5500 was faster. Not sure what to look for wrt to a DOS test.