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Reply 20 of 39, by Shreddoc

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The success or failure will be determined by non-technical factors, I believe. The hardware is a no-brainer. A lot of fun could be had with it.

But most of the world's population won't be able to immediately or easily access the product i.e. as a Valve customer, you basically Don't Exist if you live outside the vaunted panaceas of "USA, Canada, the EU, or the UK".

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And the final market product will have Today's specs in 2022's world. Presumably at 2022 prices (I don't put a lot of faith in pre-announced prices 6-12 months out).

Valve do cool stuff and I'd love to have one of these products. Just as I would love to have had an Index and experienced Half Life:Alyx, for example - but cannot, without taking expensive risks. On the other hand, mere months after the fact it warrants barely a murmur in the world.

And indeed, the gaming handheld which arrives to market in 2022 will have some pretty stiff competition, because the gaming world is moving quickly and we're entering refresh phase.

Reply 21 of 39, by cyclone3d

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mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-07-21, 14:53:
It will be steam OS which is based on linux, but I feel reasonably confident that valve will leave the boot menu accessible some […]
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cyclone3d wrote on 2021-07-21, 06:09:
It actually looks like a really cool portable, especially for platformers which it will most likely excel at. […]
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It actually looks like a really cool portable, especially for platformers which it will most likely excel at.

The newer AMD APUs are pretty powerful. Pretty sure it won't really run higher end 3D titles at acceptable speeds though.

This actually looks like something I would be interested in.

Looking at the various pages, it can be use for streaming video, etc. Sounds like it will have some version of Windows on it... hmmmm.

It will be steam OS which is based on linux, but I feel reasonably confident that valve will leave the boot menu accessible some how if you want to install windows.

Since it uses a custom APU driver support might be an issue.

I think it's a neat PC at a very aggressive price point. No way they are making money off the sale of the hardware. If I had one given to me I would play with it, but I am not interested in buying one myself. I prefer my handhelds to be smaller and I think battery life will probably be in the 2-4 hours range. My go-to gaming/emulation device is still the GPD X D just because it lasts 8 hours and it fits in my jeans.

They claim you can install PC applications on it. Does Steam OS have some sort of Windows compatibility layer such as Wine?

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Reply 22 of 39, by Pierre32

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cyclone3d wrote on 2021-07-21, 23:28:

They claim you can install PC applications on it. Does Steam OS have some sort of Windows compatibility layer such as Wine?

Yep, their own version/fork called Proton. I'm guessing you could just install Windows on it too.

Reply 23 of 39, by mothergoose729

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cyclone3d wrote on 2021-07-21, 23:28:
mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-07-21, 14:53:
It will be steam OS which is based on linux, but I feel reasonably confident that valve will leave the boot menu accessible some […]
Show full quote
cyclone3d wrote on 2021-07-21, 06:09:
It actually looks like a really cool portable, especially for platformers which it will most likely excel at. […]
Show full quote

It actually looks like a really cool portable, especially for platformers which it will most likely excel at.

The newer AMD APUs are pretty powerful. Pretty sure it won't really run higher end 3D titles at acceptable speeds though.

This actually looks like something I would be interested in.

Looking at the various pages, it can be use for streaming video, etc. Sounds like it will have some version of Windows on it... hmmmm.

It will be steam OS which is based on linux, but I feel reasonably confident that valve will leave the boot menu accessible some how if you want to install windows.

Since it uses a custom APU driver support might be an issue.

I think it's a neat PC at a very aggressive price point. No way they are making money off the sale of the hardware. If I had one given to me I would play with it, but I am not interested in buying one myself. I prefer my handhelds to be smaller and I think battery life will probably be in the 2-4 hours range. My go-to gaming/emulation device is still the GPD X D just because it lasts 8 hours and it fits in my jeans.

They claim you can install PC applications on it. Does Steam OS have some sort of Windows compatibility layer such as Wine?

Valve maintains a library called proton which is a capability layer for games similar to WINE. I have read that they will use WINE or other libraries to increase capability (for games). I don't have any experience with steam OS . It's just a distro, you can download it and run it on whatever you want.

https://store.steampowered.com/steamos/

Who knows what they will include in the build for the handheld.

Reply 24 of 39, by Kerr Avon

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Zup wrote on 2021-07-21, 18:30:

BTW... will this thing work automatically when not connected? Although Steam has offline mode, it never work well enough so I consider Steam games online games. Will I be able to play on places where I don't have access or I don't want to connect to a WiFi?

I too want it to work fully in offline mode. I never use public wifi (when in a library or wherever) because of the risk of hacking or infection, so I don't want to have to rely on Steam, or any other game launcher that potentially has any always online requirements. It's my property (when I buy one, I mean), so I'd prefer to have full control over it.

Reply 26 of 39, by DosFreak

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I don't see any reason why this wouldn't be any different as a regular computer. For real offline you will need to use:. Goldberg for Linux or windows should get most working. Smartsteamemu for most windows games. Steamless for windows games. Cracks for the rest not covered by the above

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Reply 27 of 39, by Zup

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DosFreak wrote on 2021-07-22, 16:54:

I don't see any reason why this wouldn't be any different as a regular computer. For real offline you will need to use:. Goldberg for Linux or windows should get most working. Smartsteamemu for most windows games. Steamless for windows games. Cracks for the rest not covered by the above

That's not the point. If I buy a portable console I expect every game (except online ones like MMORPG) to work in every place, having or not internet connection.

If a portable console can't run their games everywhere, it should not be sold as a real portable device. I should not have to hack or crack my console or games to make it portable.

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Reply 28 of 39, by DosFreak

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Agreed. Good luck getting Valve to change. They should take the initative, make DRM free their goal and focus on more incentives for buying games.

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Reply 30 of 39, by Kerr Avon

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mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-07-22, 14:33:

I have never had trouble with steam when I wasn't online.

Nor me. But if there is a computer involved, then unforeseen problems are always a possibility. Plus we don't know what DRM might be incorporated in future games, and any sort of Windows updates, if the Steam Deck will need and apply them, might accidentally cause problems such as knocking out the ability for the Steam Deck to go on line. In that case, any Steam game that needs to remotely verify it's legality before it runs will refuse to work. And other problems could give the same end result, such as Valve's servers being down for some reason when a game needs to access them (maybe the servers have been hacked, for example), or you're at home and your internet is down.

Reply 31 of 39, by cyclone3d

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Well, since you can install non-Steam applications, somebody could just go and install the games from somewhere like GOG and not have to worry about DRM or having to be online.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 33 of 39, by SScorpio

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Kerr Avon wrote on 2021-07-23, 16:08:

Nor me. But if there is a computer involved, then unforeseen problems are always a possibility. Plus we don't know what DRM might be incorporated in future games, and any sort of Windows updates, if the Steam Deck will need and apply them, might accidentally cause problems such as knocking out the ability for the Steam Deck to go on line. In that case, any Steam game that needs to remotely verify it's legality before it runs will refuse to work. And other problems could give the same end result, such as Valve's servers being down for some reason when a game needs to access them (maybe the servers have been hacked, for example), or you're at home and your internet is down.

For the most part, there is an activation that occurs the first time you run a game. But this shouldn't function any differently than a laptop that isn't connected to the Internet. We've already seen DRM that wants to phone home once a week, this is all down to each game and Valve doesn't have control over it.

ZellSF wrote on Yesterday, 09:58:

With the size of this thing it's already very far from portable. I would rather just take a ultraportable laptop + controller.

It's not a device you can carry around in your pants pocket like a phone. But something you don't need a tray or trying to balance in your lap. It would be easier to use than a laptop on a bus, train, or laying on a couch or in bed.

Reply 34 of 39, by ZellSF

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Don't think I would take something so huge that's just for gaming on any bus or train. A laptop? Sure, I might have other uses for it both on the ride and when I get to the destination. An actually portable gaming console (3DS/Vita)? That would be fine. This... uh...

Bed/couch might be more comfortable, though at this size I would guess still not actually comfortable anyway. I found the 3DS XL tiring because of the weight and ergonomics, this thing will be worse.

SScorpio wrote on Yesterday, 14:07:

this is all down to each game and Valve doesn't have control over it.

They choose not not. Valve can refuse anyone who wants to use always online DRM, because they're selling a device dependent on offline functionality.

Reply 35 of 39, by SScorpio

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ZellSF wrote on Yesterday, 14:40:

Bed/couch might be more comfortable, though at this size I would guess still not actually comfortable anyway. I found the 3DS XL tiring because of the weight and ergonomics, this thing will be worse.

Ergonomics will be better than 3DS and Vita for some people. I have issues with those handhelds in their stock config, but with grips they are much more comfortable. The Deck isn't a flat device, the way it looks with the large grips coming out of the ends means this is going to be much more comfortable.

ZellSF wrote on Yesterday, 14:40:

They choose not not. Valve can refuse anyone who wants to use always online DRM, because they're selling a device dependent on offline functionality.

Yes they can, but they choose to have an open market and let publishers and devs decide their own requirements. You are free to choose what you will buy in terms of what's offered. You can buy from DRM free stores GOG or itch.io if that's a concern for you.

Reply 36 of 39, by BitWrangler

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If'n you only wanna run pre-2010 stuffs, you can get yourself a ~$100 windoze tablet, and epoxy a wii-mote each side of it, hook 'em up by bluetooth and use a utility to assign the buttons/4-ways. 🤣

Edit: and if you only wanna run classic pre-93 DOS stuff, you might manage it on one of those leapfrog/linux handhelds using a version of MAME that supports a classic PC/Tandy. (They ain't really got the oomph to emulate more than about 20mhz x86)
Edit2: If you really wanna do that, you want a Leapster GS and https://github.com/mac2612/retroleap

Last edited by BitWrangler on 2021-07-24, 19:45. Edited 1 time in total.

2017: Basement full of ancient PC stuff, starting to go through it. 2021: Still starting, heh, many setbacks. So what's this BitWrangler guy's deal ??? >>> Taming the pile, specs to target?

Reply 37 of 39, by svfn

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The price itself wins against GPD/Aya NEO iinm, at least for the $400 one, which you can still add an SSD later, but without anti-glare etched glass, would have to see an actual unit for the difference.

The dock is kinda a must have if you want to use it as a docked PC with keyboard/mouse/external display, and since it is an addon it changes the value depending on the price. It doesn't quite function as a laptop for productivity since the screen is too tiny, and being docked ties you to an external screen/keyboard. A gaming laptop with a minimum GTX 1650 Ti still costs more than $500, gaming on a laptop is almost always a secondary purpose imo due to the price of higher end gaming laptops and power usage, and an external mouse + game pad would be additional bulk to carry.

Steam Deck is humongous compared to other handhelds, it would probably be carried in a bag, even the Vita is kinda bulky imo, these things don't get smaller?!

Nonetheless having tried the Vita for emulating old DOS games, some SNES/GBA/Genesis/PS1 titles, Vita community is spoiled with a lot of nice ported stuff but the Vita hardware itself is too weak for newer stuff. All I can say is it would be glorious to play modded Morrowind on a handheld (even though you can already play it on a phone..), or old problematic games that will only ever run on PC hardware and will never be ported.

For me personally it isn't AAA games that is the main attraction but some indie titles, modded games, ARPGs, old game emulation or games from GOG, that would likely need a Windows 10 install. Another upside is you would not have to rebuy games for another platform.

So whether it is worth it to you is very subjective, the price of Steam Deck + optional 512-1TB aftermarket SSD / microSD card + Steam Deck dock (for use as a docked second PC).

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Reply 38 of 39, by ZellSF

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SScorpio wrote on Yesterday, 15:08:
ZellSF wrote on Yesterday, 14:40:

They choose not not. Valve can refuse anyone who wants to use always online DRM, because they're selling a device dependent on offline functionality.

Yes they can, but they choose to have an open market and let publishers and devs decide their own requirements. You are free to choose what you will buy in terms of what's offered. You can buy from DRM free stores GOG or itch.io if that's a concern for you.

I was just making a statement based on the conversation I admittedly wasn't following. There is a potential problem with the Steam Deck here and it's Valve's fault and any criticism they get for it is valid.

SScorpio wrote on Yesterday, 15:08:
ZellSF wrote on Yesterday, 14:40:

Bed/couch might be more comfortable, though at this size I would guess still not actually comfortable anyway. I found the 3DS XL tiring because of the weight and ergonomics, this thing will be worse.

Ergonomics will be better than 3DS and Vita for some people. I have issues with those handhelds in their stock config, but with grips they are much more comfortable. The Deck isn't a flat device, the way it looks with the large grips coming out of the ends means this is going to be much more comfortable.

I did factor that in. Still seems like a nightmare to use for any extended amount of time.

Reply 39 of 39, by Kerr Avon

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cyclone3d wrote on 2021-07-23, 20:02:

Well, since you can install non-Steam applications, somebody could just go and install the games from somewhere like GOG and not have to worry about DRM or having to be online.

Most of my games are from GOG, my earlier games are on disc, and a few are on Steam. GOG is fantastic, and I don't go elsewhere if the game I'm after is on GOG.

ZellSF wrote on Yesterday, 09:58:

With the size of this thing it's already very far from portable. I would rather just take a ultraportable laptop + controller.

The problem is the screen, as always with a handheld. The screen should be as large as possible, the larger the better (within reason, of course), but for portability the item as a whole should be as small as possible. Striking a balance between the two considerations always means that one or both of them suffers.

The solution I am *still* waiting for (it's 2021, we're supposed to be in the future) is to have a handheld that doesn't have a screen built in. Instead, you just plug your spectacles in, and I mean normal sized spectacles, not goggles or anything else large or uncomfortable. And each lens of the spectacles can display a different image, so you can use them as virtual reality too. Actually, make them wireless, and also the lenses cam be just straightforward transparent, for people with perfect vision, or corrective lenses for people with bad eyesight. The 'screen' size and quality can be amazing, then. And since the screens are so small (being the size of spectacles' lenses) then I'd imagine the power required to run them would be quite low. And add both speakers and an earphone socket for the sound.

Make the handheld part something like a really good controller pad, but with a couple of mouse touch-pad things (like the Steam Deck), maybe add a small physical keyboard (for quick text entry, it's probably going to be too small to be used for controlling games), give it a decent battery life, and do everything you can to make it invulnerable to the system problems that Windows updates can cause.

But since I've yet to see these TV-spectacles for sale anywhere, even though they would obviously prove really popular, I suppose they aren't technically possible yet, at least not in a form that's inexpensive enough to sell at a profit?