xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-09-12, 12:10:

[..] A lot of software is lost to time.

Yep. That's what I'm afraid of.
I tried to explain that before, but apparently failed to do so. 😟

The early Windows days were not the same as the Windows 3.x days.
Early Windows programs are hard to find, because they are rarely marked as Windows 1.x/2.x applications.

It's not like going to SIMTEL and checking some index files.
As I tried to explain, FTPs like that collect the newest binaries only (in most cases).
So we won't find the wholw history of a specific application.

..

Discovering new old EXEs was a tedious process of trial and error.
I had to manually run each promising binary on Windows 2.x each time.
Sometimes I also had to use a Hex editor or the Borland Resource Editor.

Anyway, I'm pretty certain that some more Windows 1.x/2.x binaries existed. Why?
Because of the read.me files (change list). And the copyright.
Windows applications that also contain an older copyright code of '86,'87,'88,'89 do certainly predate Windows 3.0.

Lastly, there are visible differences.
Windows 3.0 Programs originally compiled against Windows 1.x/2.x did follow a different design philosophy.
- The Help item is located in a different spot, far on the right, for example.
- The About items is located on the upper left corner, were Windows programs have that boxy icon [-]
- The icons are monochrome
- The hot keys (underlined characters) are not appearing in the menu if you presd ALT
- The file open dialog is boxy, archaic without icons
- et cetera

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-09-12, 11:47:

We know what happened because we were there at the time. You are just wont to except that reality....
http://toastytech.com/guis/indexwindows.html

Are you just talking in third-person? 🤨

Edit: I've added a few pictures to help visualize the points mentioned before.

Anyway, I merely came back to this thread because I originally promised to test some more Windows 3.0 games on my XT.. 😞
Re: *The big list of 8086 real-mode Windows 3.0 compatible software - please contribute*

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-09-13, 05:55:

What is wrong with that? Every time I look in the mirror I see another me. Don't you? […]
Show full quote

What is wrong with that? Every time I look in the mirror I see another me. Don't you?

Edit: Nathan says hi.
Edit: Looks like story telling is obviously you forte.
Edit:I had to edit the edit..

You're calling me a liar? Seriously? 😕

Ok, fine. Here you have what you want.

But I won't provide any more of such private information. I hope you can understand.

Jo22 wrote on 2021-09-13, 07:01:

You're calling me a liar? Seriously? 😕 […]
Show full quote

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-09-13, 05:55:

What is wrong with that? Every time I look in the mirror I see another me. Don't you? […]
Show full quote

What is wrong with that? Every time I look in the mirror I see another me. Don't you?

Edit: Nathan says hi.
Edit: Looks like story telling is obviously you forte.
Edit:I had to edit the edit..

You're calling me a liar? Seriously? 😕

Ok, fine. Here you have what you want.

But I won't provide any more of such private information. I hope you can understand.

You are a very unique vogons member.. Just like the rest of us.

EDIT:We don't see any XT class system shown. Why is that?

This is what mine looks like:

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-09-13, 19:26:

This is what mine looks like:

Nice looking rig 😀
I am very envious of that screen - I had clone one as a junior and still kick myself for getting rid of it
While I tested most of the real mode list on 86box my target XT's are a Sharp PC-7100 portable which has a screen that melts your eyes and a 5160 clone with VGA [Unicorn XT-10 Restoration Project]

4xtx wrote on 2021-09-16, 05:07:

Nice looking rig :-) I am very envious of that screen - I had clone one as a junior and still kick myself for getting rid of it […]
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Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-09-13, 19:26:

This is what mine looks like:

Nice looking rig 😀
I am very envious of that screen - I had clone one as a junior and still kick myself for getting rid of it
While I tested most of the real mode list on 86box my target XT's are a Sharp PC-7100 portable which has a screen that melts your eyes and a 5160 clone with VGA [https://www.lvogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t= … rn%20xt#p954844]

Excellent effort. Mine is running GeoWorks Pro 1.2 on top of MS Dos 5a. Runs very well on 640k.

Still have the original 3.5" disks and manual I bought to use on my new 286/16 system I got in the early '90s.

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-09-16, 05:14:

4xtx wrote on 2021-09-16, 05:07:

Nice looking rig :-) I am very envious of that screen - I had clone one as a junior and still kick myself for getting rid of it […]
Show full quote

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-09-13, 19:26:

This is what mine looks like:

Nice looking rig 😀
I am very envious of that screen - I had clone one as a junior and still kick myself for getting rid of it
While I tested most of the real mode list on 86box my target XT's are a Sharp PC-7100 portable which has a screen that melts your eyes and a 5160 clone with VGA [https://www.lvogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t= … rn%20xt#p954844]

Excellent effort. Mine is running GeoWorks Pro 1.2 on top of MS Dos 5a. Runs very well on 640k.

Still have the original 3.5" disks and manual I bought to use on my new 286/16 system I got in the early '90s.

GEOS was always impressive with resources, I had the the c64 version and was always impressed with how it managed to run despite some severe limitations.
I might give GW a shot on the sharp, wonder if it runs
The ensemble releases afterwards were pretty damn good, I think the last version is now open source PC/GEOS

4xtx wrote on 2021-09-16, 05:41:

[..]
While I tested most of the real mode list on 86box my target XT's are a Sharp PC-7100 portable which has a screen that melts your eyes and a 5160 clone with VGA [https://www.lvogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t= … rn%20xt#p954844]

Thank you for the list and congratulations on a job well done!
It must have been a lot of work, really. Love your dedicaton here. ^^
Same goes for your restoration project - well done.

Since you mentioned Windows 3.0.. It could benefit from either an UMB card or an EMS board, I think.
For some akward reasons, Microsoft overhauled Real-Mode support in Windows 3.0.
It can now use Expanded Memory for Windows programs and itself.
Windows 2.x, including Windows/386, did only provide DOS programs with extra memory.
If EMS is available, Windows 3.0 will allow choosing wallpapers in Real-Mode, too.

You can check some of my 286 videos, if you like, in which I experimented with chipset EMS and Win 3 RM.
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCM_rzw6WcXibc7 … MS%2BWindows%20

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-09-16, 05:14:

[..] Mine is running GeoWorks Pro 1.2 on top of MS Dos 5a. Runs very well on 640k.

Looks interesting.
It could run even better with an EMS board, I imagine.
Free contiguous memory is always welcome by such environments, I assume.

Too bad PCem/86Box never implemented one, I think.
That would make doing benchmarks/smoothness tests more easy.

4xtx wrote on 2021-09-16, 05:41:

GEOS was always impressive with resources, I had the the c64 version and was always impressed with how it managed to run despite some severe limitations.

I believe I had got a C128D and a copy of the C128 version, too, at some point. And a mouse.
It was really impressive, yes.
Especially, considering the low resolution (-C64 calls it "hi-res"-) of 320x200 that the C64 version had to work with.
The CGA on PC/XT had got 640x200 in monochrome, by comparison, which was still not quite enough to properly fit most GUIs.

Imagine, the C64/C128 had gotten a hardware port of the Hercules card in its heyday.
PC/XT bus for Commodore C64/C128
That would have been so cool! 😎
The USER port could have been used for that.

4xtx wrote on 2021-09-16, 05:41:

GEOS was always impressive with resources, I had the the c64 version and was always impressed with how it managed to run despite […]
Show full quote

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-09-16, 05:14:

4xtx wrote on 2021-09-16, 05:07:

Nice looking rig 😀
I am very envious of that screen - I had clone one as a junior and still kick myself for getting rid of it
While I tested most of the real mode list on 86box my target XT's are a Sharp PC-7100 portable which has a screen that melts your eyes and a 5160 clone with VGA [https://www.lvogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t= … rn%20xt#p954844]

Excellent effort. Mine is running GaoWorks Pro 1.2 on top of MS Dos 5a. Runs very well on 640k.

Still have the original 3.5" disks and manual I bought to use on my new 286/16 system I got in the early '90s.

GEOS was always impressive with resources, I had the the c64 version and was always impressed with how it managed to run despite some severe limitations.
I might give GW a shot on the sharp, wonder if it runs
The ensemble releases afterwards were pretty damn good, I think the last version is now open source PC/GEOS

Yeah the owner Breadbox Ensemble sadly past away and the PC/GEOS source code is available o n github. https://www.osnews.com/story/30908/pcgeos-sou … che-20-license/
There was a code change between 1.x and 2.x. Version 2.x up was a bit less responsive because of that. IIRC it was compiled on NT based systems later on.

GeoWorks doesn't need any extra memory to load wallpapers. Also it creates a swap file during installation. Initially 4 megs but can be increased or decreased if the user wanted.

Edit: Added bits 😉

I am only posting to this thread because information like this should be stickied or archived.

My issue has long been the sheer reality that Windows 3.0 rapidly lost software support even in standard and 386 enhanced modes for most mainline software immediately in 1993.
It’s surprising how long 3.1x was supported but 3.0 had a very short life with sparse support after 3.1’s release. (Speaking as someone with 3.0 back in the day trying to get software to run)

I have a strange off brand “Windows CAD” program that I believe is a candidate for this list but sadly I’m have trouble finding the box and software to give it a test.