brostenen wrote on 2021-10-28, 23:16:

I don't think the Tandy 1000 had pre emptive multitasking. But I could be wrong.

It didn't but it has not much to do to it being a multimedia machine - it had colorful enough graphics, built-in digital sound playback and recording capabilities, friendly graphic desktop environment... also Atari ST was released before Amiga to be precise and it also had most of Amiga's features (maybe not the custom chips so the performance wasn't as good, but still).

brostenen wrote on 2021-10-28, 23:16:

EDIT:
If Commodore never looked at the Amiga as anything else than a gaming console, then you will not find any advertisement at all from Commodore,

Again, you are not getting my point because I was talking about gaming on Amiga and how it was viewed by Commodore - they seen the potential and they were trying to change this computer into a gaming console 2 times (at least). Because that's how it was used in most homes anyway...

brostenen wrote on 2021-10-28, 23:16:

that advertises the Amiga platform as non-gaming related. And they would never have started talks with eighter Sun or Silicon Graphics (I can not remember who it was), about using the Amiga3000-UX as a product in their lineup. And NASA would never have gotten meter high stacks of tech-papers on the platform, when they went for Amiga.

You know what it's like... a drowning man will clutch at a straw... Also it's a bit said that Amiga fans always bring up the small episode with NASA as the proof of how good Amiga was compared to other solutions...

Atari ST is rubbish compared to the Amiga, especially in the graphics and sound department.

The ST GEM vs the Workbench... nah I'd choose the Workbench every time.

I had both when I was a kid.

Hanjammer wrote:

Also it's a bit said that Amiga fans always bring up the small episode with NASA as the proof of how good Amiga was compared to other solutions...

It covered a ton of use cases. Video editing for local TVs, early 3D CGI (with ligthwave), programming, music, ... The Amiga was very good. I don't know what is sad about that. It's computing history.

Commodore were idiots. They released the Amiga 600 (a good machine, but the pricing made no sense), and the Amiga in console form TWICE (CDTV and CD32) shortly before they had to close because it didn't sell.

xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-10-29, 06:15:

Atari ST is rubbish compared to the Amiga, especially in the graphics and sound department. […]
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Atari ST is rubbish compared to the Amiga, especially in the graphics and sound department.

The ST GEM vs the Workbench... nah I'd choose the Workbench every time.

I had both when I was a kid.

Hanjammer wrote:

Also it's a bit said that Amiga fans always bring up the small episode with NASA as the proof of how good Amiga was compared to other solutions...

It covered a ton of use cases. Video editing for local TVs, early 3D CGI (with ligthwave), programming, music, ... The Amiga was very good. I don't know what is sad about that. It's computing history.

Commodore were idiots. They released the Amiga 600 (a good machine, but the pricing made no sense), and the Amiga in console form TWICE (CDTV and CD32) shortly before they had to close because it didn't sell.

That's why you buy second hand a few decades later. Each of my perfectly functioning Amiga A600 cost, on average with software, for NZ$130.

HanJammer wrote on 2021-10-28, 21:01:

brostenen wrote on 2021-10-28, 20:59:

The second half of the AmigaOS. It is the GUI. A bit like Win3.11 on top of Dos.

I'm pretty sure BitWrangler's question was rethorical 😉
And Workbench (even 3.XX) is more like Win 1.0 usability-wise 😁 Horrible GUI. Horrible.

That is kind of a hyperbole, considering it has near perfect multitasking. You may personally not like the UI - I think the MacOS UI is pure shit for example - but I wouldn't pitch that assessment as being objective..

The 3.xx series is fine.

AmigaOS 3.2 is also a really good update released this year :
https://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/index. … d-and-available

BitWrangler wrote on 2021-10-29, 00:04:

brostenen wrote on 2021-10-28, 20:59:

BitWrangler wrote on 2021-10-28, 17:57:

Workbench? WTF is that?

The second half of the AmigaOS. It is the GUI. A bit like Win3.11 on top of Dos.

That was obviously rhetorical, pertaining to those who only know how to use booters.

Ahhh.... I see. Stupid me. I am just not good with these sort of things, if there is no smiley.
You know... A message can then be read in different ways. 😉

HanJammer wrote on 2021-10-29, 00:57:

It didn't but it has not much to do to it being a multimedia machine - it had colorful enough graphics, built-in digital sound p […]
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brostenen wrote on 2021-10-28, 23:16:

I don't think the Tandy 1000 had pre emptive multitasking. But I could be wrong.

It didn't but it has not much to do to it being a multimedia machine - it had colorful enough graphics, built-in digital sound playback and recording capabilities, friendly graphic desktop environment... also Atari ST was released before Amiga to be precise and it also had most of Amiga's features (maybe not the custom chips so the performance wasn't as good, but still).

brostenen wrote on 2021-10-28, 23:16:

EDIT:
If Commodore never looked at the Amiga as anything else than a gaming console, then you will not find any advertisement at all from Commodore,

Again, you are not getting my point because I was talking about gaming on Amiga and how it was viewed by Commodore - they seen the potential and they were trying to change this computer into a gaming console 2 times (at least). Because that's how it was used in most homes anyway...

brostenen wrote on 2021-10-28, 23:16:

that advertises the Amiga platform as non-gaming related. And they would never have started talks with eighter Sun or Silicon Graphics (I can not remember who it was), about using the Amiga3000-UX as a product in their lineup. And NASA would never have gotten meter high stacks of tech-papers on the platform, when they went for Amiga.

You know what it's like... a drowning man will clutch at a straw... Also it's a bit said that Amiga fans always bring up the small episode with NASA as the proof of how good Amiga was compared to other solutions...

They still did not try and change the platform into a gaming console. They used the platform as a basis for one gaming console, namely the CD32. CDTV was not a gaming console, it was a set-top box aimed at a digital living room experience. That just happened to be able to run games as well. If you look at Commodore's advertisements for it, then you will realise that it was more about a mix of stuff. It was build for things like replacing the video disc and vhs, and stuff like encyclopedia's. However they did offer an official upgrade to be able to turn it into a desktop computer as well. (keyboard, mouse and floppy drive).

But yeah.... Commodore became idiots when Jack left them. It was like one of the big nails in the coffin. Hiring Mehdi Ali was another major failure, as he was responsible for the C64GS and Amiga600. To me it seems like they had become what Jay Minor left Atari over. A company that did not really want to expand and innovate and trying to squeeze the last bits out of a previous populair platform. At least that was how the engineers at Commodore saw it.

True I bring this up. Also it varies differently from continent to continent, on how the Amiga was looked at and how it was used. For the home office use, then Apple had the grips on the North American market. Commodore had their grips on Western Europe. And there were no real sale in Eastern Europe untill after the fall of the iron curtain. But it does not mean that the Amiga was not used professionally in North America. As I understand it, then it was looked at, as that in North America as well as a gaming computer. Professionally in Western Europe, it was more in the video and tv industry. I have no idea what areas it was used most in Asia and Australia and the rest of the world. But I suspect that it was mainly in Western Europe that most Amiga's were sold.

Regarding Amiga fan. Yes, I am a fan of the platform, just as much as I am a fan of Dos based x86 PC's and Commodore64's. Yes I like Apple hardware from around 2004 to 2008. Especially the last generation of PPC based Mac's. However not as much as I would call my self a fan of Apple stuff. I just think they have produced good and decent stuff from time to time. What I want to say, is only that I am only explaining why the Amiga was so much more than just a gaming machine.

By the way... Yes the AtariST came out before the Amiga, however the Amiga was already invented when Atari started to work on the ST. The reason why you were able to buy an ST some 6 month's before an Amiga is more due to Atari suing Commodore over the Amiga, because they felt stabbed in the back because Commodore paid Atari back the loan that Amiga INC had with Atari. If that lawsuit was not filed, you would probably have seen an Amiga for sale before any AtariST. Yes one was able to buy ST before Amiga, but the Amiga was already invented before the ST.

My brother used an Amiga 500 to run his small business.

For the size of our population we had a huge selection of make/models of computers.

brostenen wrote on 2021-10-29, 08:54:

But yeah.... Commodore became idiots when Jack left them. It was like one of the big nails in the coffin. Hiring Mehdi Ali was another major failure, as he was responsible for the C64GS and Amiga600. To me it seems like they had become what Jay Minor left Atari over. A company that did not really want to expand and innovate and trying to squeeze the last bits out of a previous populair platform. At least that was how the engineers at Commodore saw it.

Management problems was one thing. Other was the architecture which was a flop. Yes at one point in time it may have been innovative, but over the years they didn't much in terms of upgrading it. In the end which came just 9 years later - It just couldn't keep up with the mid-range (or even entry-level) PCs in terms of prices and speed. It was also propertiary unlike the open architecture of the PC (the closed-everything policy is still hell of a problem today for somebody who just wants to casually explore this platform, almost every new project is based on reverse engineering, people still trying to make money of the software they wrote 30+ years ago - vide GuruROM for scsi controllers... not to mention the OS itself this Cloanto vs Hyperion fight - it's just so freakin' ridiculous) ;D Oh... and the OS... OS, like I stated earlier, was horrible (multitasking is one thing, but the GUI was hard to use, not as flexible and simply not as nice as the Windows or MacOS). And the compatibility hell... On my modern 16-core Ryzen CPU based machine I can still run most of the software designed for the IBM 5150 right of the bat. 40 years later! On Amiga there were hardware compatibility issues not only when it came to a new generation of the computers, but even over the same generation - kickstart 1.3 and 2.0 compatibility problems are an example. EPROM switches were and still are common and that's only the tip of an iceberg. If this platform would have been better (more open especially) - it wouldn't be dead right now. Even the Commodore's stupid management decisions wouldn't kill it. These issues among others are the cause that the A500-mini is pretty good idea - it's perfect solution for somebody who just wants to casually play some games from he's/she's childhood and don't mess with all the problems.

brostenen wrote on 2021-10-29, 08:54:

By the way... Yes the AtariST came out before the Amiga, however the Amiga was already invented when Atari started to work on the ST. The reason why you were able to buy an ST some 6 month's before an Amiga is more due to Atari suing Commodore over the Amiga, because they felt stabbed in the back because Commodore paid Atari back the loan that Amiga INC had with Atari. If that lawsuit was not filed, you would probably have seen an Amiga for sale before any AtariST. Yes one was able to buy ST before Amiga, but the Amiga was already invented before the ST.

Yes, but in the end all what matters is who releases the product first. Especially in the mid 80s IT business.

Oh yeah, I remember ReloKick to play A500 OCS games on the A600 (namely Rodland). Rubbish compat problems. >_<

Really guys! Thread about bought items and you're discussing Amiga for pages now!

HanJammer wrote on 2021-10-29, 09:25:

Management problems was one thing. Other was the architecture which was a flop. Yes at one point in time it may have been innovative, but over the years they didn't much in terms of upgrading it. In the end which came just 9 years later - It just couldn't keep up with the mid-range (or even entry-level) PCs in terms of prices and speed. It was also propertiary unlike the open architecture of the PC (the closed-everything policy is still hell of a problem today for somebody who just wants to casually explore this platform, almost every new project is based on reverse engineering, people still trying to make money of the software they wrote 30+ years ago - vide GuruROM for scsi controllers... not to mention the OS itself this Cloanto vs Hyperion fight - it's just so freakin' ridiculous) ;D Oh... and the OS... OS, like I stated earlier, was horrible (multitasking is one thing, but the GUI was hard to use, not as flexible and simply not as nice as the Windows or MacOS). And the compatibility hell... On my modern 16-core Ryzen CPU based machine I can still run most of the software designed for the IBM 5150 right of the bat. 40 years later! On Amiga there were hardware compatibility issues not only when it came to a new generation of the computers, but even over the same generation - kickstart 1.3 and 2.0 compatibility problems are an example. EPROM switches were and still are common and that's only the tip of an iceberg. If this platform would have been better (more open especially) - it wouldn't be dead right now. Even the Commodore's stupid management decisions wouldn't kill it. These issues among others are the cause that the A500-mini is pretty good idea - it's perfect solution for somebody who just wants to casually play some games from he's/she's childhood and don't mess with all the problems.

As much as I hate to admit there is truth in this. Amiga's reliance on OCS and insistence on retaining it at its core really hurt it as a platform when more open platforms had accessible and superior hardware options. A1200/4000 were too late and too little.

Can you move the Amiga discussion somewhere else please?

Just to get back on topic: I found some goodies on the local classifieds that are still on their way to me.
- Two Fujitsu-Siemens D1215 motherboards, which is the mATX variant of the D1219 Tualatin-capable S370 board.
- GeForce 7950GT AGP (might be defective according to the seller, but lets hope he's wrong). The "artwork" on the cooler looks a bit odd, I haven't done any research on the manufacturer yet...
- Two NOS beige midi towers by Compucase (only one pictured, but the seller had two). I purchased one of those (with a different front bezel) new in ca. 2002 and they are of fantastic build quality. I'll probably have to kick out some other cases to make room for them, but I just couldn't let them pass.

kixs wrote on 2021-10-29, 10:01:

Really guys! Thread about bought items and you're discussing Amiga for pages now!

OK... so... I bought this Amiga accelerator recently...
😜

devius wrote on 2021-10-29, 11:24:

Can you move the Amiga discussion somewhere else please?

Why, is Amiga not hardware? This discussion was sparked by an Amiga hardware purchase and stated intent to purchase other Amiga hardware or hardware that emulates the Amiga. I fail to see how it is irrelevant.

Aublak wrote on 2021-10-28, 13:20:

Thanks. I really appreciate it. I'd love to see what this card can do. I may want to post the results. You think I may have an i […]
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subnet_zero wrote on 2021-10-27, 15:06:

Nice find of a Power VR Card. From the picture on this side (https://vintage3d.org/midas3.php) it should be a LT1587CT-3.6 Datas […]
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Aublak wrote on 2021-10-27, 14:00:

Now, two cards I haven't seen before. A Voodoo Rush and a Midas3. Pretty underwhelming cards for Win9x gaming but nice to have i […]
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Now, two cards I haven't seen before. A Voodoo Rush and a Midas3. Pretty underwhelming cards for Win9x gaming but nice to have in my collection.
Voltage regulators are missing on both of them. They are in otherwise good condition.
I never had to replace voltage regulators before. I have no idea what the markings mean, so I have no idea what the replacements would be.
IMG_20211027_092703.jpg

Nice find of a Power VR Card. From the picture on this side (https://vintage3d.org/midas3.php) it should be a LT1587CT-3.6
Datasheet here: https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-doc … ets/158457a.pdf
It has a fixed output of 3.6V indicated by the CT-3.6.
This part has a very long lead time: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/an … -3-6-PBF/963052
You should also use a heatsink as shown in the picture, it will get hot.

Thanks. I really appreciate it. I'd love to see what this card can do.
I may want to post the results. You think I may have an issue running it on my Pentium III 1.1ghz?
I have a paranoia about running early 3d cards with fast cpus. I'm always imagining they'll overheat the cards.

A paranoia that might be very true. Was it not the Voodoo1s, that are having a problem with faster systems? They released around the same date as your PowerVR card.
However, I do not know this for sure. This topic might be covered here, somewhere in the web or in some Youtube content. Please post your results, benchmarks as well as the repair. This would be fun.

A voodoo1 has problems with anything later than a Pentium 1, in my experience. Weird colors, etc...

The same Voodoo1 which had major problems with my Pentium III works perfectly with my Pentium 1.

With the Pentium III, I've got a Voodooo2 which again works perfectly.

kixs wrote on 2021-10-29, 10:01:

Really guys! Thread about bought items and you're discussing Amiga for pages now!

I bought my Amiga A600s.

I picked up a mint-in-box, unopened Samsung SyncMaster 931B (Black) LCD monitor (XP-era monitor) at a local Goodwill, for less than $30. 19-inch, SXGA monitor with 8ms refresh rate. It will be an excellent find for someone who wants to throw together a vintage-correct system. I also found a tobacco-particle covered Logitech Wingman USB joystick, which looks to be in good condition.