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Reply 320 of 442, by rasteri

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NachtRave wrote on 2022-02-24, 12:49:

I believe the 6056E2 is for an actual external module itself, not the SST NAND flash, though? 😖 -- Edit: Yes, it is this entire board thing: http://www.a2s.pl/en/icop-6056e2-p-3838.html

Are you sure it’s on the primary IDE tho? I cannot find anything to hint towards such. One thing I did notice was that if the FFD flash is enabled it comes up as a SCSI device. Let me play around some more to see which bus/channel it’s trying to use.

Yeah sorry you're right about the 6056. Probably the SST flash doesn't need initialized.

I also have the FDD flash on my SOM which definitely has no SST flash - I get the same freedos environment. The SST flash must be SOMEWHERE so I can only assume it's on the primary IDE channel.

If you remove the SD card and boot into DOS from USB or whatever can you see the flash in FDISK?

Reply 321 of 442, by NachtRave

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rasteri wrote on 2022-02-24, 13:03:

If you remove the SD card and boot into DOS from USB or whatever can you see the flash in FDISK?

Nope. Running Dos 6.22 fdisk produces message "Incorrect DOS version" while running xfdisk under Freedos produces message along lines of "Cannot partition floppy drives."

Reply 322 of 442, by NachtRave

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Rasteri, I have been looking up schematic design for MicroSD cards, just for sake of looking at how others are doing theirs, and I haven't found a single source for adding on-line resistors (even if they are only 33 ohms). I am not an electronics engineer by any stretch, but why are you using the 33 ohm resistors?

I almost want to try taking them all off and shorting the connections (leaving the pull-ups on, ofc) just to see if that helps any. I also want to put my scope under the 3.3v power line and do some more looking to see if this is a simple power issue.

I took your advice trying to install Win98 onto this A: drive, because screw it why not 🤣, and I figured I would just copy files off the C: drive's WIN98 folder. Ofc, it fails doing that operation on the second cab file (lulz), but when I try it a second time... It gets to a different spot each time... There has got to be something causing that, so I want to put my scope on it and try scoping around to see what I can see.

Would it be okay to maybe increase the decoupling cap C36 on the 3.3v line into the MicroSD circuit? I have a 1uF 0603 (same as C6) that I could put there for testing.

Reply 323 of 442, by rasteri

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NachtRave wrote on 2022-02-24, 14:23:

Rasteri, I have been looking up schematic design for MicroSD cards, just for sake of looking at how others are doing theirs, and I haven't found a single source for adding on-line resistors (even if they are only 33 ohms). I am not an electronics engineer by any stretch, but why are you using the 33 ohm resistors?

That's how the official SD card adapter does it, I reverse engineered it. Also the schematic for the 86duino does the same thing. The resistors work for everyone else, they should work for you too.

I took your advice trying to install Win98 onto this A: drive, because screw it why not 🤣, and I figured I would just copy files off the C: drive's WIN98 folder. Ofc, it fails doing that operation on the second cab file (lulz), but when I try it a second time... It gets to a different spot each time... There has got to be something causing that, so I want to put my scope on it and try scoping around to see what I can see.

The A: drive that is appearing is presumably the 4MB SPI flash, you won't be able to install Windows 98 to it.

My guess is the SST flash will appear as the C: drive if you can get it to work.

Would it be okay to maybe increase the decoupling cap C36 on the 3.3v line into the MicroSD circuit? I have a 1uF 0603 (same as C6) that I could put there for testing.

Sure but it probably won't help. Honestly I'm 92% convinced the problem is that the onboard SST flash and SD card are both hooked up to the same bus and interfering with each other.

Reply 324 of 442, by rasteri

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More info I dismantled my SOM and there is a non-populated component that I'm assuming is populated on your SOM - this is the SST flash.

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I have checked with a multimeter and it is indeed connected to the IDE bus. This has made me 99% sure that it's interference between the SST flash and the SD card.

I wonder if there's a way to disable the SST flash. I guess you could just desolder it from the SOM haha 😀

Or if you want to try getting the SST flash to work, maybe the SD card resistors are the reason the SST flash isn't appearing as an IDE device. Maybe remove them and the SST flash will appear in BIOS.

Reply 325 of 442, by NachtRave

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rasteri wrote on 2022-02-24, 14:57:
More info I dismantled my SOM and there is a non-populated component that I'm assuming is populated on your SOM - this is the SS […]
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More info I dismantled my SOM and there is a non-populated component that I'm assuming is populated on your SOM - this is the SST flash.

IMG_20220224_144816006.jpg

I have checked with a multimeter and it is indeed connected to the IDE bus. This has made me 99% sure that it's interference between the SST flash and the SD card.

I wonder if there's a way to disable the SST flash. I guess you could just desolder it from the SOM haha 😀

Or if you want to try getting the SST flash to work, maybe the SD card resistors are the reason the SST flash isn't appearing as an IDE device. Maybe remove them and the SST flash will appear in BIOS.

You beautiful boy, look at that. I disassembled my SOM and here’s what it looks like, exactly as you describe.

Any tips on desoldering this big oll thing?

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Reply 326 of 442, by NachtRave

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rasteri wrote on 2022-02-24, 14:57:

Or if you want to try getting the SST flash to work, maybe the SD card resistors are the reason the SST flash isn't appearing as an IDE device. Maybe remove them and the SST flash will appear in BIOS.

I literally just got done putting them back on, 🤣. Allright, well, go big or go home.

Our options basically look like, atm:
1) Desolder SST flash, chuck it in the trash (pros: don't have to buy new SOMS, cons: could destroy the SOM, edit: could be other things needing changed to disable SST Flash)
2) See if SST flash shows up in BIOS by desoldering SD card circuit (pros: new data point, could help with verification, cons: I'm lazy and don't wanna wreck what I just redid)
3) Buy VINE1s and return what I have currently (cross fingers they'll accept returns) (pros: get right stuff that will work, cons: may not accept returns (mitigate: sell on eBay to recoup))
4) Wait for someone to rewire SD card to slave and get new PCBs made (pros: nice board, cons: will have to wait, someone may not do this, new PCB cost, PCBs need rebuilt/moved /w some components not being able to be moved thus cost for new components) -- thinking this isn't a good option right out of the gate, so chucking
5) Cut pad connectors on primary IDE master and manually bridge over to slave (pros: could work?, cons: janky and unprofessional, may not even work)

I am thinking that with the above options, desoldering the SST would at least help us see if that is the bottleneck, but maybe I could do that on a separate 256MB DDR2 SOM that I have (which has the 512 MB SST Flash) to just have this beefy 2GB SST available for further testing / modification, and if I f* it up then it's at least on the cheaper SOM. Maybe will be able to do #5 since this first board was meant for myself. In which case #2 may help further isolate the issue.

Ultimately I think that I will attempt to return 4 of the 256MB DDR2 /w 512 MB SST modules (once I hear back from DSL), I'll desolder the SST from one of those that I have for testing, and then I'll do #2 to further verify if there is a way to talk to the SST flash. Ultimately I will probably see about #5, but with that...

It is my understanding that there are two SPI buses on the SOM, one marked Internal and one marked External. I am assuming that even if we were to put the SD card on Primary Slave, doesn't the SD card work as SPI anyways? So we wouldn't really be gaining anything in such case, if it gets wired to the same SPI bus as what the SST is using?

Last edited by NachtRave on 2022-02-24, 17:41. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 327 of 442, by NachtRave

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I’ve done better jobs, but it’ll have to do. Pulled almost every pad and trace next to it plum off. Really hope I didn’t just waste 200$. Hehe. Let’s see if it’s dead or not.

In the great words of Leeroy Jenkins: At least I ain't chicken.

Edit: Yup, it's no longer detecting any IDE drives 🤣 OOPS. Well, let's try that again, this time with a lot more heat.

Second Edit: Okay, second one came out a lot cleaner, no ripped pads or traces, clean unsolder. Same issue as first one: no longer detects anything on primary IDE.

Perhaps there is some sort of thing that needs removed/changed/flipped so it doesn't think there is an SST there? Desoldering it outright didn't seem to do it.

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Last edited by NachtRave on 2022-02-24, 17:55. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 328 of 442, by NachtRave

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@rasteri can you post a clean front and rear image of your VINE1 (internals w/o any red circles on the image)? I was going to look over and compare to see if there are any differences in componentry to see if something else in addition to desoldering needs done or if there is some sort of BIOS edit that needs made to also disable the SST.

Edit: I can definitely already see a missing capacitor in the memory circuit on the 256MB DDR2 vs the 512MB DDR2. Wouldn't be surprised if similar is happening with the flash module.

Last edited by NachtRave on 2022-02-24, 17:42. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 329 of 442, by Mu0n

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Maybe a detailed email to ICOP is in order? They did offer help in this very thread after all.

1Bit Fever Dreams: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9YYXWX1SxBhh1YB-feIPPw
DOS Fever Dreams: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUn0Dp6PM8DBTF-5g0nvcw

Reply 330 of 442, by NachtRave

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Mu0n wrote on 2022-02-24, 17:11:

Maybe a detailed email to ICOP is in order? They did offer help in this very thread after all.

Yup I've e-mailed them and it's still early in the states here so we'll see if any of the e-mails I sent get a reply. I'll update them with our progress. I'm sure they're just getting their morning coffee going. Speaking of which. I owe you all at least a coffee if not a beer or two or three for all the help.

Reply 331 of 442, by rasteri

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holy crap I didn't actually expect you to remove it, I mostly said it as a joke.... I bet we could have figured out a way to disable it on-board... Hope you don't need that warranty....

Here's my board. Looks like there's some configuration resistors at the very far left-bottom of the image. Post your board too so we can compare.

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Reply 332 of 442, by NachtRave

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Front and back of the one I broke. :3

This one is now my test subject, to be sacrificed in the interest of science!

Don’t worry about the other one, it was a clean desolder. I can resolder that one back together again easily enough.

Edit: Would it maybe be the rightmost component on the very bottom right of the front of the board with the vortex86 chip?

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Reply 333 of 442, by NachtRave

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Here's where I'm seeing differences between your board and mine on the front. Also keep in mind that yours says v1.1 and mine says v1.2.

I think the stuff on the top right is a part of the v1.2 modification. The stuff on the far left, I actually have a component missing on that one. The other two circled on the bottom right are the ones I think may be something to try because it is the closest to the flash module. In fact, the one right next to the processor itself that is missing on yours is directly overtop of where the flash module fits.

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Reply 334 of 442, by rasteri

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NachtRave wrote on 2022-02-24, 19:55:

Edit: Would it maybe be the rightmost component on the very bottom right of the front of the board with the vortex86 chip?

Potentially? I guess you could try removing that

Reply 335 of 442, by rasteri

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NachtRave wrote on 2022-02-24, 20:10:

I actually have a component missing on that one.

Nah you don't, that's just a blob of flux or something on my board. There's no component there.

I'd say the two resistors on the bottom right are the most likely suspects. Make sure to take a note of their values and/or keep them.

It's possible the board you tore traces up from won't work at all now so I'd do this to the board with the clean desolder

Reply 336 of 442, by NachtRave

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rasteri wrote on 2022-02-24, 20:11:
NachtRave wrote on 2022-02-24, 19:55:

Edit: Would it maybe be the rightmost component on the very bottom right of the front of the board with the vortex86 chip?

Potentially? I guess you could try removing that

Tried removing them, similar outcome -- no primary drive found.

Upon closer inspection, I think the far left-most one I circled for the front is the same as on yours, that is to say not populated. Edit: Hah, yeah we both arrived at the same on that.

So that leaves some of the componentry to the top right, opposite side of the BIOS flash.

Last edited by NachtRave on 2022-02-24, 20:37. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 337 of 442, by NachtRave

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rasteri wrote on 2022-02-24, 20:23:

I'd say the two resistors on the bottom right are the most likely suspects. Make sure to take a note of their values and/or keep them.

1.5 ohms, both of them. Have "000" on the top of 'em.

rasteri wrote on 2022-02-24, 20:23:

It's possible the board you tore traces up from won't work at all now so I'd do this to the board with the clean desolder

Rgr, lemme try this on that one, too. I was worried about same thing.

I noticed that this solder didn't liquify until I put a lot more heat than usual. Maybe it has some sort of layer sprayed overtop of it, or maybe it just has higher temp solder.

Reply 338 of 442, by NachtRave

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rasteri wrote on 2022-02-24, 20:23:
NachtRave wrote on 2022-02-24, 20:10:

I actually have a component missing on that one.

It's possible the board you tore traces up from won't work at all now so I'd do this to the board with the clean desolder

I believe it would appear to be working now, on the clean desolder chip.

Will update here in a sec. I want to go back to the one with torn up traces and put it under the magnifying glass to see if I can see anything. Edit: Unfortunately, I was able to find several traces that look to be necessary for the IDE circuit itself to even function torn off, and this chip is as good as junk. Sad - up for grabs to anyone who would want it to attempt a repair, but, it looks to be busted. Would need a Necroware or NorthridgeFix to get this one working - and NorthridgeFix doesn't do anything more than a few torn traces at most.

Update: I believe we have resolved the MicroSD issue on the clean desolder board, as I was able to run Win98SE setup on the C: drive and actually get into Setup this time around. Bad news is that setup says "Windows 98 requires a computer with at least 16MB of memory." I bet one of those resistors was for the DDR memory? Or maybe it's a FreeDOS thing? Going to try soldering one of the resistors back on and see where that gets me. Will update in a sec. -- Another Edit: It was a FreeDOS thing. Win98SE setup works correctly when booting off a Win98 boot disk/iso.

Further update: In order to further disable the SST NAND Flash, the resistor right below the main Vortex86 chip, as circled in updated image below, must be removed.

Last update for now: Yes, I can verify that it is indeed working. I have been able to successfully install Win98SE, and am happier than a 6 year old on Christmas. :p

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Last edited by NachtRave on 2022-02-24, 22:38. Edited 1 time in total.