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VST Midi Driver Midi Mapper

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Reply 21 of 228, by RetroGamer4Ever

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I did some digging and mudlord is still around, actively doing work on game-related stuff, but seems to have abandoned the VST MIDI project, for some unknown reason. They were not putting their updates for VST MIDI into the github repository, yet they have been doing so with their other projects, so I'm not sure what to make of this, particularly when it seems like someone has gone to great effort to remove it or suppress it from being distributed.

Reply 22 of 228, by AliUndBaba

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Nazo wrote on 2021-01-02, 03:35:
I hate to bump an old topic, but has anyone found a good long term solution to this? I definitely have to agree that Yamaha XG […]
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I hate to bump an old topic, but has anyone found a good long term solution to this? I definitely have to agree that Yamaha XG sounds a lot better for a generic MIDI driver (with soundfonts you can do better, but you typically have to choose different ones and mix things around a bit for each individual song to make them really sound good. XG seems to have a good balance of just being at least ok for virtually everything "out of the box" so to speak.) I actually had the VSTi MIDI driver working at first on my Windows 10 x64 system, but then it just suddenly disappeared from the CoolSoft MIDI mapper menu entirely the next time I tried to use it (which was quite a while later, so I honestly don't know if it was just simply failing after a reboot or if an update broke it.) I can't really even guess at what could make it just suddenly disappear like that. EDIT: It seems uninstalling and reinstalling at least temporarily brings it back. But reinstalling over and over is not exactly a long term solution...

Honestly, I wish DOSBox itself could somehow implement XG synthesis directly (presumably requiring the user to provide the actual ROM I suppose,) but I know that is a whole complicated mess of a project in itself. (Still, then it would work on other architectures and platforms such as ARM devices like the Raspberry Pi so actually would be really great.)

There is actually a soundfont that's supposed to have taken samples from the XG synthesizer and reproduced them, but unless I'm just not finding a properly up to date one it just sounds positively awful. In fact, even though it's specifically supposed to be remapped for GM it sounds like it uses the wrong instruments... (I'm not sure what that means since the first part of XG is supposed to include GM so should be mapped the same shouldn't it? Unless I've misunderstand, GS and then XG extend beyond it rather than replace it.) This probably never could sound quite as good as a real XG synthesizer, but it seems like at least a decent stopgap solution and a lot easier (especially for people who don't know how to setup MIDI since I can just send them a preconfigured DOSBox setup.) But it doesn't just not sound right -- it sounds downright bad. Does anyone know if anything more has ever been done with this?

kode54 wrote on 2019-12-12, 23:22:

You're probably better off using a loopback driver with a dedicated VST host application, as it will allow sharing a single instance of the VST plugin with multiple applications.

In the most technical sense that is absolutely 100% true, but most of us aren't MIDI developers and it actually isn't such a great solution for us. Doing this is a lot more complicated (in fact, as much as I've dealt with MIDI, since I never really did any actual MIDI development I have no real experience with anything like this and don't even know how to do it personally) and increases complexity of what should be a relatively simple thing significantly (multiple processes and dependencies with parts that can go wrong.) That's in addition to the already increased complexity thanks to dealing with the lack of a proper MIDI mapper now. And while I could probably suss it out with a bit of time and effort, there's no way I could tell friends I've tried to setup with DOSBox to do all that. (In fact, it's already far more complex than it should be thanks to 8.1 and 10 removing the MIDI mapper entirely and having to use yet another piece of software.) I would like to add here that most of us DOSBox users are quite possibly never going to need to share a MIDI device across multiple programs. I'm sure developers may run across this from time to time, but I can't even remember ever needing two things to use a MIDI device at once even back with physical hardware as an end user.

Hallo Leute, wie Ihr sicher schon bemerkt habt, gibt es für die WIN 10 Versionen >2004 keinen funktionierenden VST Midi Driver mehr.
Ich habe glücklicherweise mit Herrn Herman Seib einen Programmierer gefunden der den Treiber so abgeändert hat, dass er unter den neueren Win10-Versionen 21h1 und Höher sowie WIN11 ablauffähig ist. Diesen Treiber hat er unter folgendem Link bereitgestellt: https://github.com/Arakula/vstdriver/releases … g/v1.0.0-alpha3 Momentan überlegt er sich noch weitere Verbesserungen die er gegebenenfalls einfach unter https://github.com/Arakula/vstdriver Weitere Releases ablegt. Bitte nicht erschrecken, dieser Treiber wird bei der Installation zunächst abgelehnt, da er Schaden anrichten könne und muß dann über die übliche Routine, dass man der Software vertraut freigegeben werden.
Meine Bitte an euch ist, dass ihr dem Entwickler nach dem herunterladen und ausprobieren eine kleine Spende zukommen lasst, damit er uns gegebenenfalls weiterhin unterstützt, wenn der Treiber wieder wegen erneuter WIN Sicherheitsupdates nicht mehr funktioniert. Die beiden möglichen Spendenadressen in PayPal.com sind - him@hermannseib.com oder office@hermannseib.com
Ich selbst habe Herrn Seib eine etwas größere Spende zukommen lassen, da ich nicht zufrieden war mit den alternativen Lösungen wie LoopMidi in Verbindung mit dem Midiplayer60 oder auch foobar2000 mit dem SYXG50 Treiber sowie VirtualMidiSynth. Diese Spende hat mit Sicherheit nicht die Kosten gedeckt die man bei einem offiziellen Auftrag hätte zahlen müssen. deshalb hiermit nocheinmal mein Dank an Herrn Hermann Seib an dieser Stelle.

Hello friend's, as you have probably already noticed, there is no longer a functioning VST midi driver for the WIN 10 versions> 2004.
Fortunately, in Mr. Herman Seib I found a programmer who modified the driver so that it can run under the newer Win10 versions 21h1 and higher as well as WIN11. He has made this driver available under the following link: https://github.com/Arakula/vstdriver/releases … g/v1.0.0-alpha3 He is currently considering further improvements which he can simply go to https://github.com/ Arakula / vstdriver stores more releases. Please do not be alarmed, this driver is initially rejected during installation because it could cause damage and must then be released via the usual routine of trusting the software.
My request to you is that you send the developer a small donation after downloading and trying it out so that he can continue to support us if the driver no longer works again due to another WIN security update. The two possible donation addresses in PayPal.com are - him@hermannseib.com or office@hermannseib.com
I myself made a somewhat larger donation to Mr. Seib because I was not satisfied with the alternative solutions such as LoopMidi in connection with the Midiplayer60 or foobar2000 with the SYXG50 driver and VirtualMidiSynth. This donation certainly did not cover the costs that would have been paid for an official order. therefore I would like to take this opportunity to thank Mr. Hermann Seib once again.

Reply 23 of 228, by RetroGamer4Ever

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I'm using this new version of the driver right now and it seems legit. The issue of it not being loaded into memory is definitely gone and I am experiencing no playback issues through player software with the Roland VSC from the late 90's/early 2000's or the Yamaha XG equivalent. I will test it later, with the AGD Interactive Sierra remakes and other software.

Reply 24 of 228, by Trelokk

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Awesome that this was done after all. Couldn't hope for anything better! Will try this out asap. If this really works as intended, I have no problems with letting a few bucks jump into that guy's wallet.

Reply 26 of 228, by Trelokk

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Yepp, works for me as well again. You just need the Coolsoft MIDIMapper to set up the VST MIDI Synth as your new default MIDI device, just like before. It's as easy as it can get.
I noticed a short slowdown in MIDI playback during the startup phase of a game, but it's like 1-2 seconds max and after that won't happen again. Was already like that with the old version IIRC. Not a big deal, really.
Absolutely thrilled this option is fully back on the table at long last!

I also read in the comments of the S-YXG50 plugin d/l website that Mr. Seib intends to end with the BASSMIDI dependency of the driver eventually (since it can cause issues if a MIDI player uses a different bass.dll), switching to an internal (MME/ASIO/WASAPI) solution.

PS: Paypal donation for Mr. Seib (office@hermannseib.com) has been made today.
PS PS: Any way of changing MIDI device volume in Win10 with the VSTDriver/MidiMapper combo? In game ports like Russian Doom, the music volume slider doesn't do anything.

Reply 27 of 228, by Nazo

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Oh I didn't see this. Thanks for the link to the newer beta version. So I see the issue is some Windows 10 changes made it stop working that thankfully can be worked around. Glad they worked that out with that beta release. It at least seems to work for now, though it may break yet again upon a reboot or two. Guess I'll find out soon enough.

I really hope someday we see a more long-term solution to this. I'd really like to see stuff like DOSBox able to load VST plugins directly instead of relying on an external MIDI renderer for instance. Eventually we're going to end up having to run even stuff like DOSBox in a VM (a VM for what is effectively also a sort of VM, sheesh.)

Reply 28 of 228, by RetroGamer4Ever

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There's been some experimental updates with a fork of the driver, which is now ready for testing. Some useful improvements and enhancements, but I don't know what all of them mean exactly.

https://github.com/DB50XG/vstdriver/releases

Last edited by RetroGamer4Ever on 2022-03-26, 20:54. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 29 of 228, by Trelokk

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Important to know: The current VSTDriver doesn't save presets at all. That means the only VSTi fully usable is the S-YXG50 (since it is already ideally configured by default). You can't put the Sound Canvas VA in SC-55 mode, which is important for gaming.

I dunno about this new beta. Does it save presets?

Reply 30 of 228, by Falcosoft

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Trelokk wrote on 2022-03-25, 20:32:

Important to know: The current VSTDriver doesn't save presets at all. That means the only VSTi fully usable is the S-YXG50 (since it is already ideally configured by default). You can't put the Sound Canvas VA in SC-55 mode, which is important for gaming.

I dunno about this new beta. Does it save presets?

Yes, this new version saves the settings and also shows the user interface of the VSTi plugin so it can be considered much more useful than the previous version.

@Edit: Unfortunately it's not very stable. I always got abnormal program termination with Van Basco and FSMP is always stuck when you try to close it according to Task manager if it used any of the VST Midi ports.

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Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi
VST Midi Driver Midi Mapper

Reply 31 of 228, by RetroGamer4Ever

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I'm finding the latest to be unusable on my system. Every attempt to access and use the VST MIDI driver for playback is denied and it is unavailable for access, despite it being installed properly, as far as I can tell. It shows up as an option in all MIDI players and mapping schemes, but it is completely shut-off and an error message is given, stating that it can't be opened/accessed or the driver is not enabled.

Reply 32 of 228, by RetroGamer4Ever

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It just got weirder. I can't load the SYXG50 VSTi in FMP, apparently because it's being accessed by the VST MIDI driver. I had to switch the host driver to another VST, to access the SYXG50 through Bassmidi.

Reply 33 of 228, by Trelokk

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Ok, thanks for the headsup. Won't even bother trying, then. Looks like FSMP+loopMIDI is still the best combo to use right now. As much as I'd like to have that easier solution back, it needs to be stable, not just have all necessary functions. It's still a beta after all.

Btw I have also experimented with different hosts such as loopBe1 or even the paid loopBe30, but I kept having hanging notes (or rather "music freezes") in games like Doom at some point. LoopMIDI was the only program that didn't let me down so far.

Reply 34 of 228, by RetroGamer4Ever

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I'm gonna uninstall this enhanced fork and re-install the mainlined one from Arakula, which worked perfectly (more or less) for my usage. I will test the forked version again, when there is an update that addresses this weirdness and instability.

Reply 37 of 228, by RetroGamer4Ever

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I don't think the Arakula one will be updated any time soon. I know it's not a priority for him, cause it's a side-project and such, so I can't expect him to have to put it before whatever else he's got going on, especially without funding. Still, I think this piece of software is important enough that a team of people should be working on it in whatever ways possible, the more the better. It could also be useful as a DOSBOX add-on and a VST host driver would be a great thing to have on Linux, where retro Windows/DOS/whatever gaming is a key user-niche for the OS.

Reply 38 of 228, by Trelokk

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Yeah, looks like there hasn't been any Github activity there for months. But well, I haven't been using the driver for years and I'll survive without it longer if needed. The only thing I don't like is having to launch two programs right now before launching a game with MIDI music - I don't do it often enough to justify putting these in Windows autostart, though.

Reply 39 of 228, by Nazo

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RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2022-03-26, 00:15:

I don't think the Arakula one will be updated any time soon. I know it's not a priority for him, cause it's a side-project and such, so I can't expect him to have to put it before whatever else he's got going on, especially without funding. Still, I think this piece of software is important enough that a team of people should be working on it in whatever ways possible, the more the better. It could also be useful as a DOSBOX add-on and a VST host driver would be a great thing to have on Linux, where retro Windows/DOS/whatever gaming is a key user-niche for the OS.

It's worth noting that a VST host inside individual software such as DOSBox actually is super easy to do. The difficulty of the software we're talking about is it has to work OS-wide and function with an already extremely limited API that now has almost no support left at all (eventually Windows probably won't even support MIDI functions at all.) There is one problem though. The VST files themselves still have to be executed by the system and things like the S-YXG50 synthesizer are x86 only (x64 only via backwards compatibility -- everything else will probably break MIDI stuff like this long before that, but if computers eventually go to 128-bit, it will be impossible to run a 32-bit VST.) This also means they can't be used at all on things like ARM systems except via CPU emulation (which is pretty resource intensive just for MIDI...) Already this is getting very hard and troublesome. I've rigged up pre-configured DOSBox setups to friends to help them get started with a particular game or etc several times and always the MIDI support was the sticking point. They weren't willing/able to jump through the hoops for VST MIDI (and that was before that update broke the old program) so all I could do was just try to setup a generic soundfont for them. It never sounded as good (well, if I spent a lot of time trying to find exactly the right one for that specific game it might, but it's not like I was getting paid for this, lol) but there just is no encapsulated way to get such things. I do think it would be very nice and helpful at least in the interim if things like DOSBox and ScummVM had a built in VST host.

Actually, I do think things like DOSBox seriously need to integrate better internal MIDI support. Some stuff like XG support will eventually disappear entirely. Which is too bad because I've found the XG synthesizer to sound the best for a general purpose MIDI device across virtually every game. (Yes soundfonts can be better, but typically you have to tune it with individual soundfonts for each game -- sometimes for each tune. XG isn't as good as a good soundfont individually, but I've found it to just work great across games without changing.) And I don't know why, but the soundfont designed to sound like a DB50XG just never sounded right at all (even the one that is adjusted for GM.) In fact, in most things it seemed to kind of sound pretty bad. Eventually it will be impossible to emulate the unique sound of devices like the DB50XG. What the retro world really needs is some sort of project to bring a more universal and future scalable support for such devices that can be integrated into software like DOSBox, ScummVM, and etc. Unfortunately that would be a huge project and I suspect no one will bother until after it's too late (once stuff like the S-YXG50 VSTi no longer work at all.)

Anyway, probably our best hope for the near future is just to give up and setup VMs to run DOSBox, ScummVM, and etc inside. And probably Windows 7 works best overall for that (it should be Linux, but getting a MIDI setup that does all this is beyond my knowledge and I've been using Linux for years. MIDI was always kind of a pain in Linux.) This is kind of a pain and I've been trying to figure out how to do it with something that can be in portable form (probably has to be an open source VM software) but it's our most realistic option for now. Of course that isn't possible on non x86 systems and outright emulation is necessary on those if you want to get something like VSTi MIDI plugins to work. Someday we may reach the point we run stuff like DOSBox inside ... stuff like DOSBox...