VOGONS


First post, by pentiumspeed

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Don't bother buying these SBCs made by Micro Industries in particular. Main issue: their firmware is *proprietary*. Even they are standard PC chipsets and processors.

I have two. Pentium based 266mmx BGA 2.0V using TX chipset with phoenix pico bios that is fixed and will only boot directly to vxworks (says "starting Vxworks"), and other one is mini ISA card using C&T chipset and regular 5V 486DX2 with 256K cache module that doesn't boot at all, and came with 1MB 72pin simm, brain dead idea for that especially 486DX2 66.

Worse still, the owner of this business closed up shop and cut all support off completely when owner retired when couldn't find successor to run his business in 2015. What I can best as I can, couldn't find the links that goes to manuals and firmware even their website is very limited, basically just specs of products and please "call" us for anything else, very Apple-like.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Industries

Only way is to find alternative firmware from other makers and these SBC is expensive and the sellers who have them is not aware of these issues, and I'm sure lot of users who used them previously, already converted to alternative SBCs due to restrictive designs.

Other than that, they were high quality but useless.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 1 of 8, by darry

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pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-01-30, 20:15:
Don't bother buying these SBCs made by Micro Industries in particular. Main issue: their firmware is *proprietary*. Even the […]
Show full quote

Don't bother buying these SBCs made by Micro Industries in particular. Main issue: their firmware is *proprietary*. Even they are standard PC chipsets and processors.

I have two. Pentium based 266mmx BGA 2.0V using TX chipset with phoenix pico bios that is fixed and will only boot directly to vxworks (says "starting Vxworks"), and other one is mini ISA card using C&T chipset and regular 5V 486DX2 with 256K cache module that doesn't boot at all, and came with 1MB 72pin simm, brain dead idea for that especially 486DX2 66.

Worse still, the owner of this business closed up shop and cut all support off completely when owner retired when couldn't find successor to run his business in 2015. What I can best as I can, couldn't find the links that goes to manuals and firmware even their website is very limited, basically just specs of products and please "call" us for anything else, very Apple-like.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Industries

Only way is to find alternative firmware from other makers and these SBC is expensive and the sellers who have them is not aware of these issues, and I'm sure lot of users who used them previously, already converted to alternative SBCs due to restrictive designs.

Other than that, they were high quality but useless.

Cheers,

Have you tried using an option ROM as I suggested here Re: Need to turn off vxworks in firmware to boot DOS or windows on a MICRO INDUSTRIES SBC board. ?

Reply 2 of 8, by pentiumspeed

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darry wrote on 2023-01-30, 21:29:
pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-01-30, 20:15:
Don't bother buying these SBCs made by Micro Industries in particular. Main issue: their firmware is *proprietary*. Even the […]
Show full quote

Don't bother buying these SBCs made by Micro Industries in particular. Main issue: their firmware is *proprietary*. Even they are standard PC chipsets and processors.

I have two. Pentium based 266mmx BGA 2.0V using TX chipset with phoenix pico bios that is fixed and will only boot directly to vxworks (says "starting Vxworks"), and other one is mini ISA card using C&T chipset and regular 5V 486DX2 with 256K cache module that doesn't boot at all, and came with 1MB 72pin simm, brain dead idea for that especially 486DX2 66.

Worse still, the owner of this business closed up shop and cut all support off completely when owner retired when couldn't find successor to run his business in 2015. What I can best as I can, couldn't find the links that goes to manuals and firmware even their website is very limited, basically just specs of products and please "call" us for anything else, very Apple-like.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Industries

Only way is to find alternative firmware from other makers and these SBC is expensive and the sellers who have them is not aware of these issues, and I'm sure lot of users who used them previously, already converted to alternative SBCs due to restrictive designs.

Other than that, they were high quality but useless.

Cheers,

Have you tried using an option ROM as I suggested here Re: Need to turn off vxworks in firmware to boot DOS or windows on a MICRO INDUSTRIES SBC board. ?

I tried. Used a PATA with firmware controller card or SCSI controller and will not be initialized at all due to this proprietary bios firmware left hooks out. Even there is no routines in the firmware to get you into settings either.

The same drive interface controllers cards worked in other motherboards and different SBCs.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 3 of 8, by darry

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pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-01-30, 21:49:
I tried. Used a PATA with firmware controller card or SCSI controller and will not be initialized at all due to this proprietary […]
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darry wrote on 2023-01-30, 21:29:
pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-01-30, 20:15:
Don't bother buying these SBCs made by Micro Industries in particular. Main issue: their firmware is *proprietary*. Even the […]
Show full quote

Don't bother buying these SBCs made by Micro Industries in particular. Main issue: their firmware is *proprietary*. Even they are standard PC chipsets and processors.

I have two. Pentium based 266mmx BGA 2.0V using TX chipset with phoenix pico bios that is fixed and will only boot directly to vxworks (says "starting Vxworks"), and other one is mini ISA card using C&T chipset and regular 5V 486DX2 with 256K cache module that doesn't boot at all, and came with 1MB 72pin simm, brain dead idea for that especially 486DX2 66.

Worse still, the owner of this business closed up shop and cut all support off completely when owner retired when couldn't find successor to run his business in 2015. What I can best as I can, couldn't find the links that goes to manuals and firmware even their website is very limited, basically just specs of products and please "call" us for anything else, very Apple-like.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Industries

Only way is to find alternative firmware from other makers and these SBC is expensive and the sellers who have them is not aware of these issues, and I'm sure lot of users who used them previously, already converted to alternative SBCs due to restrictive designs.

Other than that, they were high quality but useless.

Cheers,

Have you tried using an option ROM as I suggested here Re: Need to turn off vxworks in firmware to boot DOS or windows on a MICRO INDUSTRIES SBC board. ?

I tried. Used a PATA with firmware controller card or SCSI controller and will not be initialized at all due to this proprietary bios firmware left hooks out. Even there is no routines in the firmware to get you into settings either.

The same drive interface controllers cards worked in other motherboards and different SBCs.

Cheers,

Thank you for that information . This is unfortunate .

Reply 4 of 8, by Horun

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Yes thanks for the warning. Do you think someone could edit/mod the BIOS to be more normal ?

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 5 of 8, by Jo22

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pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-01-30, 20:15:

What I can best as I can, couldn't find the links that goes to manuals and firmware even their website is very limited, basically just specs of products and please "call" us for anything else, very Apple-like.

Correction: very post-2007 Apple-like. 😉
The days of Motorola 68000 and Power PC Macs were very open.
The firmware was flexible, even used "OpenFirmware" in the later PPC days (used socalled Modern World ROMs).
OpenFirmware featured a command line, even.
The Power Macs of the 90s/2000s were very service friendly, I think.
Let's just look at the Power Mac G3/G4/G5 and Mac Pro.
The Power Mac Blue/White had one poor IDE controller, yes, but the innards were always easily accessible.
Without tools/screwdrivers needed. The screws were socalled knurled screws, I think.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 6 of 8, by Falcosoft

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Jo22 wrote on 2023-01-31, 09:48:

...Correction: very post-2007 Apple-like. 😉
The days of Motorola 68000 and Power PC Macs were very open.

Correction: I do not think such correction is necessary. Pentiumspeed did not say Macs-like but Apple-like. And Apple had such anti-repair and walled garden tendencies long before the "post-2007"era. Just think about the iPod and iTunes...

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Reply 7 of 8, by Jo22

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Falcosoft wrote on 2023-01-31, 11:11:
Jo22 wrote on 2023-01-31, 09:48:

...Correction: very post-2007 Apple-like. 😉
The days of Motorola 68000 and Power PC Macs were very open.

Correction: I do not think such correction is necessary. Pentiumspeed did not say Macs-like but Apple-like. And Apple had such walled garden and anti-repair tendencies long before the "post-2007"era. Just think about iPod and iTunes...

I'm stubborn and won't take it back. 😝 😂
2007 was the release year of the iPhone, hence" post-2007". That's when Apple moved to the mobile sector.
iPod and iTunes were also popular among PC/Windows users in the past. And QuickTime (buggy on PC).
Nowadays, Macs are a niche market by comparison. It's all about smart phones, smart watches, iOS..

Unfortunately, us retro people are different. We still continue to live in the Windows vs Linux vs Mac days.
Just like we fight over which obsolete system is better (Sega vs Nintendo, Atari vs Amiga etc).
So if someone in retro community says "Apple-like" I'm positive the readers will associate this primary with Macintoshs, not the iPhone. 🙂

Edit: It's all good, I'm not dead serious about the matter.
It's just from my personal environment that I know people tend to generalize anything "Apple".
Once you own a Mac, no matter how old, you've become an "Apple person" in their eyes.
You instantly turn into a hipster person to them, for whatever reason.
They kind of assume you're also wearing apple watches, iPods, iPhones, eat Apple cereals, wear Apple cloths, have an iGod poster above your bed and what not. 😂

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 8 of 8, by Ryccardo

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Jo22 wrote on 2023-01-31, 11:42:

Unfortunately, us retro people are different. We still continue to live in the Windows vs Linux vs Mac days.
Just like we fight over which obsolete system is better (Sega vs Nintendo, Atari vs Amiga etc).

Vespa vs Lambretta, we used to be rivals (sometimes violently), nowadays even though we may not admit it as a matter of pride we're pretty much friends and will certainly stick up our nose together against disposable plastic crap 😉

IMO Old Apple isn't officially that much better at serviceability (especially when it comes to monitors which are pretty much considered disposable in the service manual), but of course - whether by will or accident - they were more modular than claimed, see the mezzanine slot in the first two iMac G3s or the bluetooth card in the eMac (now it would be nice if someone made an 802.11n card in the G4 AirPort Extreme interface!)
New Apple does suck more (and I stopped using an iPhone after iOS 7 and its disgusting redesign) but the real problem is 99% of the competition being an Apple wannabe...

Token on topic part:

Horun wrote on 2023-01-31, 02:48:

Do you think someone could edit/mod the BIOS to be more normal ?

Really depends on how it was done: might be some integrated option rom, which is probably easy to remove/disable (with an eeprom programmer to backup and restore the firmware, and fair skill with a disassembler or an official bios editor that works on that version) - or a VxWorks loader might be partially baked into the firmware itself (as is the case for many Windows CE [and Android!] systems), at which point you might well put the effort into porting coreboot to it...