Thermalwrong wrote on 2023-02-25, 04:07:

Woah, that's what I do too - they can pop up cheap and they're TFTs. So far each one I've got has been 640x480 but I usually ver […]
Show full quote

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-02-24, 23:24:

I got "Schroedingers" LCD monitor today... it's actually a 10" photo frame by Fidelity, and I noticed it seemed to be 4:3, thus an earlier one, and fairly thick front to back, leading me to suspect it was an older less integrated model assembled from commodity components. Get into it and YAY, appears to have a Sharp made (or near clone) screen that does 6:6:6 RGB, 640x480 ... DOeS that sound useful or is it just me? ... The Schroedinger part is, that it ain't actually a monitor for retro hardware yet without some work. There may be several possibilities, retrobodgemod it into a 386 laptop maybe. Configure a CL or Trident card/monitor combo that could go in whatever motherboard. Be lazy and plug it into a Pi or similar and run emulators on it. Though the last may happen first as it might be the best way of determining all quirks of the screen.

Woah, that's what I do too - they can pop up cheap and they're TFTs. So far each one I've got has been 640x480 but I usually verify by reading the manual first if it can be found and it's mostly the chunky ones that are the lower res.
I've got a Toshiba LTM10C209 industrial panel that was obviously recycled out of one, and with some adaptation I was able to use my Advantech SBC with it. Another one I got out of a little DVB tv to improve my Toshiba 400CS laptop: Re: Upgrading a Toshiba laptop from DSTN to TFT panel - The Satellite 400CS becomes a 400CDT

They're not too bad to hook up, but can the pi run parallel TFTs? I thought I read something about that using the GPIOs but haven't tried it. If you've got a laptop with a Chips VGA then there are BMP utilities to modify the BIOS to suit different LCDs, but I haven't got very far with that.

Hey thanks that looks like useful encouragement. Panel turns out to be a LQ104V1DG83 so very similar to one you had there. Think I'll check out the chipset on a Zenith machine I have, that might have the C&T controller. Damn forgetting the model of it, has one of those 386/486 clock doubled cyrix chips in, and is so damn fugly I can only improve it. (i.e. yellowed, scratched and cracked) Might be a Z-star 486SL or something like that, or maybe Znote.

edit: ah specs more easily had for it's Packard Bell badged sibling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packard_Bell_Statesman so turns out it has the 6553x class C&T ... will have to see if that's as "persuadable" as the later model.

editII: at quick scan of datasheet from here (might need to turn on translate to see the download button) https://pdf.ic37.com/icpdf_datasheet_8/F6553_ … /F6553_151.html seems I might get 5:5:5 mode or 5:6:5 mode... looks hopeful, lots of nitty gritty to plow through.

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-02-25, 03:49:

Bought an untested (probably genuinely, seller seems to mostly deal in antiques and knick knacks) GeForce FX5700VE for $30

We'll see how that goes. Probably poorly based on prior experience with GeForce FX series cards.

If it's a loose card I'd say there's about a 90% chance that it has some damage to the SMD components on the back. It will just be a matter of if it's anything vital or if it's just some EMI filters or something.

I managed to snag a Gainward FX 5700 Ultra, a BFG 5700 Ultra and a BFG 5500 PCI from the same seller and all three had at least one damaged component on the back. Thankfully, the 5700 Ultras both run fine. They have an almost identical layout, so I was able to use a multimeter to check the broken components on either one, and they appear to both be filters of some kind. Sadly, the 5500 is totally dead. The two components broken on that must have been vital.

Also got a 3dlabs Wildcat VP990 Pro and it has a broken component near one of the DVI connectors... hopefully it's also nothing vital. I haven't tested it yet... the more I think about it, I have gotten a TON of hardware with PCB or SMD damage lately. I can think of 4-5 other somewhat decent cards in addition to the ones above. 🙁

So many people just didn't take care of this stuff over the years and left it all thrashing around loose in a box. I love it when sellers are so clueless about this (and physics apparently) that they take photos of heavy\bulky cards stacked and then they slide them around in all different orientations for their pictures, sometimes with the brackets perched on the backs of other cards in an attempt to look fancy. I mean... DUH. It'd be like a used car dealership leaning or stacking all of their cars on top of each other on the lot to get attention. 🤦

On Thursday, I got a TMNT CRT TV set from the thrift store for $12.99 + tax. It has a defect on the tube where the shadow mask is at and I might be able to fix it once I have the right tools and not be the 8-bit-guy, plus the front AV ports aren't working, but the back works and I'm using a universal remote to turn it on and off, yet the set works fine. Time to find my NES power brick and buy some TMNT NES games.

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-02-25, 04:28:

Hey thanks that looks like useful encouragement. Panel turns out to be a LQ104V1DG83 so very similar to one you had there. Think […]
Show full quote

Thermalwrong wrote on 2023-02-25, 04:07:

Woah, that's what I do too - they can pop up cheap and they're TFTs. So far each one I've got has been 640x480 but I usually ver […]
Show full quote

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-02-24, 23:24:

I got "Schroedingers" LCD monitor today... it's actually a 10" photo frame by Fidelity, and I noticed it seemed to be 4:3, thus an earlier one, and fairly thick front to back, leading me to suspect it was an older less integrated model assembled from commodity components. Get into it and YAY, appears to have a Sharp made (or near clone) screen that does 6:6:6 RGB, 640x480 ... DOeS that sound useful or is it just me? ... The Schroedinger part is, that it ain't actually a monitor for retro hardware yet without some work. There may be several possibilities, retrobodgemod it into a 386 laptop maybe. Configure a CL or Trident card/monitor combo that could go in whatever motherboard. Be lazy and plug it into a Pi or similar and run emulators on it. Though the last may happen first as it might be the best way of determining all quirks of the screen.

Woah, that's what I do too - they can pop up cheap and they're TFTs. So far each one I've got has been 640x480 but I usually verify by reading the manual first if it can be found and it's mostly the chunky ones that are the lower res.
I've got a Toshiba LTM10C209 industrial panel that was obviously recycled out of one, and with some adaptation I was able to use my Advantech SBC with it. Another one I got out of a little DVB tv to improve my Toshiba 400CS laptop: Re: Upgrading a Toshiba laptop from DSTN to TFT panel - The Satellite 400CS becomes a 400CDT

They're not too bad to hook up, but can the pi run parallel TFTs? I thought I read something about that using the GPIOs but haven't tried it. If you've got a laptop with a Chips VGA then there are BMP utilities to modify the BIOS to suit different LCDs, but I haven't got very far with that.

Hey thanks that looks like useful encouragement. Panel turns out to be a LQ104V1DG83 so very similar to one you had there. Think I'll check out the chipset on a Zenith machine I have, that might have the C&T controller. Damn forgetting the model of it, has one of those 386/486 clock doubled cyrix chips in, and is so damn fugly I can only improve it. (i.e. yellowed, scratched and cracked) Might be a Z-star 486SL or something like that, or maybe Znote.

edit: ah specs more easily had for it's Packard Bell badged sibling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packard_Bell_Statesman so turns out it has the 6553x class C&T ... will have to see if that's as "persuadable" as the later model.

editII: at quick scan of datasheet from here (might need to turn on translate to see the download button) https://pdf.ic37.com/icpdf_datasheet_8/F6553_ … /F6553_151.html seems I might get 5:5:5 mode or 5:6:5 mode... looks hopeful, lots of nitty gritty to plow through.

With the C&T 65530 / 65535 there's been some work done for the PC110 already 😀 yyzkevin on here has some details on his site about how that's wired up: https://www.yyzkevin.com/v3-pcb/ along with BIOS patching to make a switch from mono/colour STN to TFT into a permanent modification.
This other PC110 site, which I think was the first to change the PC110's DSTN to TFT: https://garakutaen.sakura.ne.jp/pc110/18thmLCD.html There's ct65535e.exe which changes the registers to output to TFT on the fly, in DOS and I think there's a Windows version too as ct65535w.exe. Since those registers are for the graphics chip and not parts of the BIOS, it should work on any laptop with the 65530/65535 chip I think. Can't test it, don't have one 😀
At this point, I personally think that replacing a ruined screen on a 386/486 laptop where the polariser has gone bad, is easier than trying to fix the original screen with the damaged polariser.

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-24, 08:33:

Asininity wrote on 2023-02-24, 08:07:

I'm not sure what use it'll have other than filling an empty slot on my Tandy 1400 LTE but it's pretty neat to have.

Keep it for the Apopcalypse, when the internet has died and they have to blackboot the entire network again and we are set back to 1980 levels of speeds.

That seems like too much responsibility. I haven't delved into the manual, other than flipping through it, so maybe there is something fun I could do with it.

Asininity wrote on 2023-02-26, 02:09:

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-24, 08:33:

Asininity wrote on 2023-02-24, 08:07:

I'm not sure what use it'll have other than filling an empty slot on my Tandy 1400 LTE but it's pretty neat to have.

Keep it for the Apopcalypse, when the internet has died and they have to blackboot the entire network again and we are set back to 1980 levels of speeds.

That seems like too much responsibility. I haven't delved into the manual, other than flipping through it, so maybe there is something fun I could do with it.

Heh I'm sure there is a way to get that old girl up and running again, wont be much else to do while the Internet is down.

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-25, 04:40:

If it's a loose card I'd say there's about a 90% chance that it has some damage to the SMD components on the back. It will just […]
Show full quote

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-02-25, 03:49:

Bought an untested (probably genuinely, seller seems to mostly deal in antiques and knick knacks) GeForce FX5700VE for $30

We'll see how that goes. Probably poorly based on prior experience with GeForce FX series cards.

If it's a loose card I'd say there's about a 90% chance that it has some damage to the SMD components on the back. It will just be a matter of if it's anything vital or if it's just some EMI filters or something.

I managed to snag a Gainward FX 5700 Ultra, a BFG 5700 Ultra and a BFG 5500 PCI from the same seller and all three had at least one damaged component on the back. Thankfully, the 5700 Ultras both run fine. They have an almost identical layout, so I was able to use a multimeter to check the broken components on either one, and they appear to both be filters of some kind. Sadly, the 5500 is totally dead. The two components broken on that must have been vital.

Also got a 3dlabs Wildcat VP990 Pro and it has a broken component near one of the DVI connectors... hopefully it's also nothing vital. I haven't tested it yet... the more I think about it, I have gotten a TON of hardware with PCB or SMD damage lately. I can think of 4-5 other somewhat decent cards in addition to the ones above. 🙁

So many people just didn't take care of this stuff over the years and left it all thrashing around loose in a box. I love it when sellers are so clueless about this (and physics apparently) that they take photos of heavy\bulky cards stacked and then they slide them around in all different orientations for their pictures, sometimes with the brackets perched on the backs of other cards in an attempt to look fancy. I mean... DUH. It'd be like a used car dealership leaning or stacking all of their cars on top of each other on the lot to get attention. 🤦

This makes me wonder if there's a bunch of cards out there that are just a heat gun and a small order from Mouser away from working again.

Got this beauty recently. I don't think it really does anything special that would pertain to gaming, but eh, it's a 4MB Tseng ET6100 and it is named the Integral Technologies Flashpoint 128, which sounds pretty cool to me. 🤣 There isn't a ton of information out there about the Tseng Viper fx chip, but here is some information here and here, that refers to it being used for real time image scaling. I did find the manual for the Flashpoint 128, and it refers to the whole card as a "Frame Grabber" with very little mention of it even being a VGA card.

I tested it out and it works great in Windows 98SE with the built in ET6000\ET6100 drivers. 😀

Asininity wrote on 2023-02-26, 03:09:

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-25, 04:40:

If it's a loose card I'd say there's about a 90% chance that it has some damage to the SMD components on the back. It will just […]
Show full quote

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-02-25, 03:49:

Bought an untested (probably genuinely, seller seems to mostly deal in antiques and knick knacks) GeForce FX5700VE for $30

We'll see how that goes. Probably poorly based on prior experience with GeForce FX series cards.

If it's a loose card I'd say there's about a 90% chance that it has some damage to the SMD components on the back. It will just be a matter of if it's anything vital or if it's just some EMI filters or something.

I managed to snag a Gainward FX 5700 Ultra, a BFG 5700 Ultra and a BFG 5500 PCI from the same seller and all three had at least one damaged component on the back. Thankfully, the 5700 Ultras both run fine. They have an almost identical layout, so I was able to use a multimeter to check the broken components on either one, and they appear to both be filters of some kind. Sadly, the 5500 is totally dead. The two components broken on that must have been vital.

Also got a 3dlabs Wildcat VP990 Pro and it has a broken component near one of the DVI connectors... hopefully it's also nothing vital. I haven't tested it yet... the more I think about it, I have gotten a TON of hardware with PCB or SMD damage lately. I can think of 4-5 other somewhat decent cards in addition to the ones above. 🙁

So many people just didn't take care of this stuff over the years and left it all thrashing around loose in a box. I love it when sellers are so clueless about this (and physics apparently) that they take photos of heavy\bulky cards stacked and then they slide them around in all different orientations for their pictures, sometimes with the brackets perched on the backs of other cards in an attempt to look fancy. I mean... DUH. It'd be like a used car dealership leaning or stacking all of their cars on top of each other on the lot to get attention. 🤦

This makes me wonder if there's a bunch of cards out there that are just a heat gun and a small order from Mouser away from working again.

Yes, literally thousands of cards if I had to guess. The problem is knowing what the components were... and when it comes to actually replacing them, not everyone is capable of working with such tiny components. I have done a fair amount of them, but at some point the components just got SO small that it is nearly impossible to do the work manually unless you have a lot of experience (which I do not... hence the pile of cards waiting for the day I'm capable of fixing them).

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-26, 03:40:

Yes, literally thousands of cards if I had to guess. The problem is knowing what the components were... and when it comes to actually replacing them, not everyone is capable of working with such tiny components. I have done a fair amount of them, but at some point the components just got SO small that it is nearly impossible to do the work manually unless you have a lot of experience (which I do not... hence the pile of cards waiting for the day I'm capable of fixing them).

Yeah, once you get below 402 and throw in a bunch of BGA-like components things start to get really complicated. I feel like high-resolution photos, or a functioning unit, is basically a must for determining what's missing. Someday I'll need to build myself such a pile.

2009 isn't really all that old and "retro" but still neat, at least to me. It looks like it was opened but never used.

Asininity wrote on 2023-02-26, 06:20:

2009 isn't really all that old and "retro" but still neat, at least to me. It looks like it was opened but never used.

PXL_20230215_002228168.MP.jpg
PXL_20230215_002117685.MP (1).jpg

Nearly 15 years ago.

I usually classify stuff as Retro as soon as its capable of doing stuff modern hardware no longer does right, and there are many DX10 titles that dont work right on windows 10

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-02-26, 06:30:

Asininity wrote on 2023-02-26, 06:20:

2009 isn't really all that old and "retro" but still neat, at least to me. It looks like it was opened but never used.

PXL_20230215_002228168.MP.jpg
PXL_20230215_002117685.MP (1).jpg

Nearly 15 years ago.

I usually classify stuff as Retro as soon as its capable of doing stuff modern hardware no longer does right, and there are many DX10 titles that dont work right on windows 10

There are many that don't work right ...regardless of which OS you use, its a DX10 thing and the very reason it got ditched fast for DX11, that said . .Vista and 7 fair better for DX10 stuff than 8, 10 or 11 do.

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-02-26, 06:30:

I usually classify stuff as Retro as soon as its capable of doing stuff modern hardware no longer does

I'm intrigued. Is there a thread here that discusses the things that DX10-level hardware like this does that newer hardware cannot?

I have basically considered 2007 or so to be the cut-off date for hardware that actually does anything interesting that modern hardware can't do as well or better. In my experience it seems like there are very few problems getting any games from 2007 to now working on whatever the current hardware is.

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-02-26, 06:30:

and there are many DX10 titles that dont work right on windows 10

If it's strictly an operating system issue with some DX10 games, then something like a GTX 970, 980 or 980 Ti could run in a maxed out XP + 7 system for the games that just plain do not work in Windows 10, and that would also cover nearly everything from the DX9 to DX11 era.

With such massively powerful and backward compatible devices as the Kepler and Maxwell series from Nvidia, it seems to really limit the uses for nearly any hardware before that for XP and Vista\7 compatibility.

... not to say the HD4000, HD5000 series and Nvidia Tesla and Fermi cards aren't neat, especially if you find one in box... I just wasn't aware of them doing anything that couldn't be done with Kepler or Maxwell and the right driver version.

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-26, 07:13:

I'm intrigued. Is there a thread here that discusses the things that DX10-level hardware like this does that newer hardware cann […]
Show full quote

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-02-26, 06:30:

I usually classify stuff as Retro as soon as its capable of doing stuff modern hardware no longer does

I'm intrigued. Is there a thread here that discusses the things that DX10-level hardware like this does that newer hardware cannot?

I have basically considered 2007 or so to be the cut-off date for hardware that actually does anything interesting that modern hardware can't do as well or better. In my experience it seems like there are very few problems getting any games from 2007 to now working on whatever the current hardware is.

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-02-26, 06:30:

and there are many DX10 titles that dont work right on windows 10

If it's strictly an operating system issue with some DX10 games, then something like a GTX 970, 980 or 980 Ti could run in a maxed out XP + 7 system for the games that just plain do not work in Windows 10, and that would also cover nearly everything from the DX9 to DX11 era.

With such massively powerful and backward compatible devices as the Kepler and Maxwell series from Nvidia, it seems to really limit the uses for nearly any hardware before that for XP and Vista\7 compatibility.

... not to say the HD4000, HD5000 series and Nvidia Tesla and Fermi cards aren't neat, especially if you find one in box... I just wasn't aware of them doing anything that couldn't be done with Kepler or Maxwell and the right driver version.

The transition to DX10 involved huge driver changes both with hardware having to support the older driver standard and the newer Vista one .. which was then ditched quickly by MS when Windows 7 arrived so the drivers had to be yet again changed. Compatibility was broken at some point during these driver changes and DX10 has weird issues with Windows 10 and 11 as the driver model was changed again, later DX10 games tend to work just fine but earlier ones usually require patching to work right on DX11 hardware under win 10 and 11.

IIRC FarCry 2 was one such DX10 game that simply doesn't work right in later windows versions.

Asininity wrote on 2023-02-26, 06:20:

2009 isn't really all that old and "retro" but still neat, at least to me. It looks like it was opened but never used.

And it's ATI.
Being from ATI qualifies as retro for me.
Sure, ATI was already AMD's property in 2009 but they kepts using the brand until after the next generation. HD5xxx were the last ATI branded cards.

And it is also the best single GPU card from the series.

acl wrote on 2023-02-26, 07:41:

And it's ATI. Being from ATI qualifies as retro for me. Sure, ATI was already AMD's property in 2009 but they kepts using the br […]
Show full quote

Asininity wrote on 2023-02-26, 06:20:

2009 isn't really all that old and "retro" but still neat, at least to me. It looks like it was opened but never used.

And it's ATI.
Being from ATI qualifies as retro for me.
Sure, ATI was already AMD's property in 2009 but they kepts using the brand until after the next generation. HD5xxx were the last ATI branded cards.

And it is also the best single GPU card from the series.

Lovely cards that went like the stink in both single and Xfire configs, I still have a soft spot for the 4870X2 but a pair of 4890s was a thing of beauty. (I have a pair of Sapphire 4890s on my display shelf, both still work which is more than I can say for their HD3000 series brethren)

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-26, 07:37:

The transition to DX10 involved huge driver changes both with hardware having to support the older driver standard and the newer Vista one .. which was then ditched quickly by MS when Windows 7 arrived so the drivers had to be yet again changed. Compatibility was broken at some point during these driver changes and DX10 has weird issues with Windows 10 and 11 as the driver model was changed again, later DX10 games tend to work just fine but earlier ones usually require patching to work right on DX11 hardware under win 10 and 11.

IIRC FarCry 2 was one such DX10 game that simply doesn't work right in later windows versions.

This definitely needs it's own thread. Please start one. 😁

As The AbandonwareGuy said, things get interesting\retro\vintage around here when there is a practical reason to keep them around. We are the first line of defense for these poor cards that are going to get junked\scrapped, only to become unobtainium some day when people finally say "oh crap, I should have hung onto my HD4890 because ___ only plays properly on that series."

Just paid for a 2,4 ghz late 2011 MacBook Pro. From the pictures, it looks like a mint condition machine. I can not see any scratches, and there are nothing bent. I paid 88,75 USD plus 7,53 USD for shipping.

Yes. I know it is not Win9x/Dos stuff. But the offer was great, and I need something to use with writing and that sort of things. Also, it is great to have access to MacOS as well, on actual hardware, as I do not have the patience to make a hackintosh. It is cheap enough, so why bother at all?

brostenen wrote on 2023-02-26, 12:55:

Just paid for a 2,4 ghz late 2011 MacBook Pro. From the pictures, it looks like a mint condition machine. I can not see any scratches, and there are nothing bent. I paid 88,75 USD plus 7,53 USD for shipping.

Yes. I know it is not Win9x/Dos stuff. But the offer was great, and I need something to use with writing and that sort of things. Also, it is great to have access to MacOS as well, on actual hardware, as I do not have the patience to make a hackintosh. It is cheap enough, so why bother at all?

Got one for 25€, came with a missing arrow key.
And it gives me all the things you talk about, no hackintosh included.
OSC limit is 10.13 IIRC.

High end cards are always gonna be a good bet for your stash, even if it takes a few years for the retro community in general to appreciate them. Actually 2008-2010 cards might be a rare spot down the road, because of economic conditions causing low sales.