Nexxen wrote on 2023-02-26, 15:07:

Got one for 25€, came with a missing arrow key. And it gives me all the things you talk about, no hackintosh included. OSC limit […]
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brostenen wrote on 2023-02-26, 12:55:

Just paid for a 2,4 ghz late 2011 MacBook Pro. From the pictures, it looks like a mint condition machine. I can not see any scratches, and there are nothing bent. I paid 88,75 USD plus 7,53 USD for shipping.

Yes. I know it is not Win9x/Dos stuff. But the offer was great, and I need something to use with writing and that sort of things. Also, it is great to have access to MacOS as well, on actual hardware, as I do not have the patience to make a hackintosh. It is cheap enough, so why bother at all?

Got one for 25€, came with a missing arrow key.
And it gives me all the things you talk about, no hackintosh included.
OSC limit is 10.13 IIRC.

The best part, is that I can dive into the gritty and deep things of Unix. And not just Linux that I use on my HP ProBook 6460b.
I love getting into the deeper stuff on these systems.

EDIT:
I do have a Mac Mini 2009. It is my WinXP gaming machine. Core2Duo and some kind of GF9400 card. Does not matter if it is mobile chipset or whatever, point is that it runs Pirates for XP perfectly.

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-02-26, 15:34:

High end cards are always gonna be a good bet for your stash, even if it takes a few years for the retro community in general to appreciate them. Actually 2008-2010 cards might be a rare spot down the road, because of economic conditions causing low sales.

I might say that another reason, is that people who were kids and teenagers during those years. Have yet to settle down, get kids, and then get that nostalgic childhood/teenage yearning.

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-26, 07:37:

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-26, 07:13:

I'm intrigued. Is there a thread here that discusses the things that DX10-level hardware like this does that newer hardware cann […]
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TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-02-26, 06:30:

I usually classify stuff as Retro as soon as its capable of doing stuff modern hardware no longer does

I'm intrigued. Is there a thread here that discusses the things that DX10-level hardware like this does that newer hardware cannot?

I have basically considered 2007 or so to be the cut-off date for hardware that actually does anything interesting that modern hardware can't do as well or better. In my experience it seems like there are very few problems getting any games from 2007 to now working on whatever the current hardware is.

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-02-26, 06:30:

and there are many DX10 titles that dont work right on windows 10

If it's strictly an operating system issue with some DX10 games, then something like a GTX 970, 980 or 980 Ti could run in a maxed out XP + 7 system for the games that just plain do not work in Windows 10, and that would also cover nearly everything from the DX9 to DX11 era.

With such massively powerful and backward compatible devices as the Kepler and Maxwell series from Nvidia, it seems to really limit the uses for nearly any hardware before that for XP and Vista\7 compatibility.

... not to say the HD4000, HD5000 series and Nvidia Tesla and Fermi cards aren't neat, especially if you find one in box... I just wasn't aware of them doing anything that couldn't be done with Kepler or Maxwell and the right driver version.

The transition to DX10 involved huge driver changes both with hardware having to support the older driver standard and the newer Vista one .. which was then ditched quickly by MS when Windows 7 arrived so the drivers had to be yet again changed. Compatibility was broken at some point during these driver changes and DX10 has weird issues with Windows 10 and 11 as the driver model was changed again, later DX10 games tend to work just fine but earlier ones usually require patching to work right on DX11 hardware under win 10 and 11.

IIRC FarCry 2 was one such DX10 game that simply doesn't work right in later windows versions.

The biggest problem is as far as I can tell every single title pre-2012ish has broken brightness controls. This is a big f*cking problem in titles like Bioshock.

I run a Gigabyte WindForce GTX 760 in my dual boot high end XP/Win7 system (which is built on a P5N-D SLI with a QX9650 and 8GB of 1066 RAM) because in Windows 7 it provides very good support for DX10 and early DX11 titles (some of which are also jank) AND it supports ShadowPlay hardware encoded recording. It also works very nicely with most XP era titles.

Also, 2008 to 2010 cards are already hard to find. At least the top end units. This also coincided with the peak of bumpgate. Took me a hot minute to find good examples of GTX 285 and GTX 295 (which is an absolute monster of a card, 2 full GTX 280s slightly underclocked on a single card)

Where does hardware end and peripheral begin? I picked up a Dell AT101 locally awhile back but only just now got to cleaning it up. I still need to retrobright the space bar but I thought it was clean enough to have out.

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-02-26, 06:30:

Nearly 15 years ago.

I usually classify stuff as Retro as soon as its capable of doing stuff modern hardware no longer does right, and there are many DX10 titles that dont work right on windows 10

That's a valid point, but I also don't want to accept that 2009 is that far back. Maybe I'll make a dedicated Windows 7 machine and put it in there. I do have a gaudy NZXT case sitting around would fit.

acl wrote on 2023-02-26, 07:41:

And it's ATI. Being from ATI qualifies as retro for me. Sure, ATI was already AMD's property in 2009 but they kepts using the br […]
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And it's ATI.
Being from ATI qualifies as retro for me.
Sure, ATI was already AMD's property in 2009 but they kepts using the brand until after the next generation. HD5xxx were the last ATI branded cards.

And it is also the best single GPU card from the series.

That's fair, however it's difficult to reconcile that anything later than the Windows XP era is retro. I do miss the aesthetic of many of the ATI cards with goofy aliens and weird cyborgs.

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-26, 08:24:

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-26, 07:37:

The transition to DX10 involved huge driver changes both with hardware having to support the older driver standard and the newer Vista one .. which was then ditched quickly by MS when Windows 7 arrived so the drivers had to be yet again changed. Compatibility was broken at some point during these driver changes and DX10 has weird issues with Windows 10 and 11 as the driver model was changed again, later DX10 games tend to work just fine but earlier ones usually require patching to work right on DX11 hardware under win 10 and 11.

IIRC FarCry 2 was one such DX10 game that simply doesn't work right in later windows versions.

This definitely needs it's own thread. Please start one. 😁

As The AbandonwareGuy said, things get interesting\retro\vintage around here when there is a practical reason to keep them around. We are the first line of defense for these poor cards that are going to get junked\scrapped, only to become unobtainium some day when people finally say "oh crap, I should have hung onto my HD4890 because ___ only plays properly on that series."

I'd really like to see this thread. It's a topic I'd like to become more knowledgeable about.

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-02-26, 19:20:

The biggest problem is as far as I can tell every single title pre-2012ish has broken brightness controls. This is a big f*cking […]
Show full quote

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-26, 07:37:

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-26, 07:13:

I'm intrigued. Is there a thread here that discusses the things that DX10-level hardware like this does that newer hardware cann […]
Show full quote

I'm intrigued. Is there a thread here that discusses the things that DX10-level hardware like this does that newer hardware cannot?

I have basically considered 2007 or so to be the cut-off date for hardware that actually does anything interesting that modern hardware can't do as well or better. In my experience it seems like there are very few problems getting any games from 2007 to now working on whatever the current hardware is.

If it's strictly an operating system issue with some DX10 games, then something like a GTX 970, 980 or 980 Ti could run in a maxed out XP + 7 system for the games that just plain do not work in Windows 10, and that would also cover nearly everything from the DX9 to DX11 era.

With such massively powerful and backward compatible devices as the Kepler and Maxwell series from Nvidia, it seems to really limit the uses for nearly any hardware before that for XP and Vista\7 compatibility.

... not to say the HD4000, HD5000 series and Nvidia Tesla and Fermi cards aren't neat, especially if you find one in box... I just wasn't aware of them doing anything that couldn't be done with Kepler or Maxwell and the right driver version.

The transition to DX10 involved huge driver changes both with hardware having to support the older driver standard and the newer Vista one .. which was then ditched quickly by MS when Windows 7 arrived so the drivers had to be yet again changed. Compatibility was broken at some point during these driver changes and DX10 has weird issues with Windows 10 and 11 as the driver model was changed again, later DX10 games tend to work just fine but earlier ones usually require patching to work right on DX11 hardware under win 10 and 11.

IIRC FarCry 2 was one such DX10 game that simply doesn't work right in later windows versions.

The biggest problem is as far as I can tell every single title pre-2012ish has broken brightness controls. This is a big f*cking problem in titles like Bioshock.

I run a Gigabyte WindForce GTX 760 in my dual boot high end XP/Win7 system (which is built on a P5N-D SLI with a QX9650 and 8GB of 1066 RAM) because in Windows 7 it provides very good support for DX10 and early DX11 titles (some of which are also jank) AND it supports ShadowPlay hardware encoded recording. It also works very nicely with most XP era titles.

Also, 2008 to 2010 cards are already hard to find. At least the top end units. This also coincided with the peak of bumpgate. Took me a hot minute to find good examples of GTX 285 and GTX 295 (which is an absolute monster of a card, 2 full GTX 280s slightly underclocked on a single card)

I bought a couple GTX 295 and a couple GTX 590 cards when they weren't so hard to find. Also received another 295 in parts of a trade I did a while back.

Finally have a Titan Black on the way. Been looking for 780Ti and Titan Black for a while and found one that was for sale for a decent price.

Drunk with the success of finding a nice-ish panel in a photoframe the other day, I grabbed another one. This was a ~12" eMotion picture frame, under $10, and in this one I find another Sharp panel, this one is an 800x600 TFT, 12.1" LQ121S1LG55 ... not quite so immediately retro friendly though as it seems to be 1 channel 8 bit LVDS... which will need more than wiring and BIOS/software fudge to be useful. However, these Sharp panels never seem to change mounting holes much, looks like it MAYYY be a drop-in physically in either my Armada 1530DMT or my Thinkpad 385XD which both have DSTN screens. The good news is that there seems to be ~$20 parallel RGB to LVDS convertors on AliExpress, so compared to paying the $100+ that 4:3 TFTs of these types of sizes seem to go for I seem like I'm doing alright.

Thermalwrong wrote on 2023-02-25, 16:03:

With the C&T 65530 / 65535 there's been some work done for the PC110 already :) yyzkevin on here has some details on his site ab […]
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BitWrangler wrote on 2023-02-25, 04:28:

Hey thanks that looks like useful encouragement. Panel turns out to be a LQ104V1DG83 so very similar to one you had there. Think […]
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Thermalwrong wrote on 2023-02-25, 04:07:

Woah, that's what I do too - they can pop up cheap and they're TFTs. So far each one I've got has been 640x480 but I usually verify by reading the manual first if it can be found and it's mostly the chunky ones that are the lower res.
I've got a Toshiba LTM10C209 industrial panel that was obviously recycled out of one, and with some adaptation I was able to use my Advantech SBC with it. Another one I got out of a little DVB tv to improve my Toshiba 400CS laptop: Re: Upgrading a Toshiba laptop from DSTN to TFT panel - The Satellite 400CS becomes a 400CDT

They're not too bad to hook up, but can the pi run parallel TFTs? I thought I read something about that using the GPIOs but haven't tried it. If you've got a laptop with a Chips VGA then there are BMP utilities to modify the BIOS to suit different LCDs, but I haven't got very far with that.

Hey thanks that looks like useful encouragement. Panel turns out to be a LQ104V1DG83 so very similar to one you had there. Think I'll check out the chipset on a Zenith machine I have, that might have the C&T controller. Damn forgetting the model of it, has one of those 386/486 clock doubled cyrix chips in, and is so damn fugly I can only improve it. (i.e. yellowed, scratched and cracked) Might be a Z-star 486SL or something like that, or maybe Znote.

edit: ah specs more easily had for it's Packard Bell badged sibling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packard_Bell_Statesman so turns out it has the 6553x class C&T ... will have to see if that's as "persuadable" as the later model.

editII: at quick scan of datasheet from here (might need to turn on translate to see the download button) https://pdf.ic37.com/icpdf_datasheet_8/F6553_ … /F6553_151.html seems I might get 5:5:5 mode or 5:6:5 mode... looks hopeful, lots of nitty gritty to plow through.

With the C&T 65530 / 65535 there's been some work done for the PC110 already 😀 yyzkevin on here has some details on his site about how that's wired up: https://www.yyzkevin.com/v3-pcb/ along with BIOS patching to make a switch from mono/colour STN to TFT into a permanent modification.
This other PC110 site, which I think was the first to change the PC110's DSTN to TFT: https://garakutaen.sakura.ne.jp/pc110/18thmLCD.html There's ct65535e.exe which changes the registers to output to TFT on the fly, in DOS and I think there's a Windows version too as ct65535w.exe. Since those registers are for the graphics chip and not parts of the BIOS, it should work on any laptop with the 65530/65535 chip I think. Can't test it, don't have one 😀
At this point, I personally think that replacing a ruined screen on a 386/486 laptop where the polariser has gone bad, is easier than trying to fix the original screen with the damaged polariser.

Excellent, yes, looks like those utils will make everything much easier if things don't "just work"

As I lead the post with, got another screen which might with adapter see use with another CT a 65554 in an Armada, so any and all CT info might come in handy eventually. (I don't think that taps out my entire mess of CTs either might be in 2 more machines too)

edit: turned up this C&T scaling util while I was reminding myself about "what dat Tosh Satellite do?" Re: Full screen scaling issue
(Not sure the Sat is a candidate for either of the screens yet. Poss has a fairly decent one on, and comes in between the 12 and 10" sizes)

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-17, 04:03:

Got this Jetway 663AS Pro, been after a Socket A board with both ISA and Universal AGP for a while but never found one at the ri […]
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Got this Jetway 663AS Pro, been after a Socket A board with both ISA and Universal AGP for a while but never found one at the right price that didn't require me to recap the bastard. So when I spotted this one I threw the seller a offer for it and it was accepted, comes with a Athlon 1.1 Ghz and a chunky Spire cooler .. pretty sure its one of the Thunderbird models as it doesn't identify with the Athlon XP monkier. Board doesn't appear to be anything super special but the caps all look to be in good condition and aside from needing a clean the board itself is in good nick.

Figure with ISA and Uni AGP it would make for a really nice top end DOS/Win98se Box, appears its also using PC133 ram which will also work well for such a rig.

Jetway KT133.jpgJetway Post.jpgSpire Cooler.jpg

I believe there is a Ultra version of this board with the KT133A chipset .. not sure what the difference is between the chipsets but the two boards appear to be identical otherwise.

So this arrived today and the seller actually sent it with the cooler attached 🤣, was crazily well packed so it couldn't move during shipping. I have since removed the spire cooler which came off pretty easy and inspected the die. Seems its taken a hit previously with one corner chipped so I may switch the cooler to a better one that doesn't require pliers to reattach. (I have a couple of copper core ones here that are super nice)

Will likely use the spire cooler on a Tualaron 1400 setup instead since it has a IHS to protect the die.

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-27, 03:12:

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-17, 04:03:

Got this Jetway 663AS Pro, been after a Socket A board with both ISA and Universal AGP for a while but never found one at the ri […]
Show full quote

Got this Jetway 663AS Pro, been after a Socket A board with both ISA and Universal AGP for a while but never found one at the right price that didn't require me to recap the bastard. So when I spotted this one I threw the seller a offer for it and it was accepted, comes with a Athlon 1.1 Ghz and a chunky Spire cooler .. pretty sure its one of the Thunderbird models as it doesn't identify with the Athlon XP monkier. Board doesn't appear to be anything super special but the caps all look to be in good condition and aside from needing a clean the board itself is in good nick.

Figure with ISA and Uni AGP it would make for a really nice top end DOS/Win98se Box, appears its also using PC133 ram which will also work well for such a rig.

Jetway KT133.jpgJetway Post.jpgSpire Cooler.jpg

I believe there is a Ultra version of this board with the KT133A chipset .. not sure what the difference is between the chipsets but the two boards appear to be identical otherwise.

So this arrived today and the seller actually sent it with the cooler attached 🤣, was crazily well packed so it couldn't move during shipping. I have since removed the spire cooler which came off pretty easy and inspected the die. Seems its taken a hit previously with one corner chipped so I may switch the cooler to a better one that doesn't require pliers to reattach.

Will likely use the spire cooler on a Tualaron 1400 setup instead since it has a IHS to protect the die.

Youch... yeah, not that unexpected to find a broken Athlon die in that situation, regardless of when it happened.

It's sad to say, but I feel like functional Socket A systems are going to become scarce sooner than one might expect. The chips are just SO fragile and the coolers were such a pain in the butt to install and remove. Now that the foam pads are all dry rotting or getting plucked off it's getting even worse. At least with Socket 370 there are some CPU options with heat spreaders for either the older or the newer boards.

Unless someone figures out how to transplant a Slot A CPU to a Socket A board with an adapter, we're going to end up with an abundance of homeless Slot A CPUs (which we already have) and empty Socket A motherboards and relatively few working systems of either platform.

I don't seek out CPUs, but I think in all of the hardware lots I've gotten over the past 7 years I've only gotten a couple intact Socket A and Socket 370 CPUs. It also doesn't help that Socket A is kind of in that funky area where it isn't exceptional for any particular type of retro build because the boards rarely have ISA, and the CPUs are easily outpaced by slightly newer Athlon 64 systems. So we don't see a lot of preservation efforts and people collecting and babying the CPUs... at least I haven't.

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-27, 03:24:

Youch... yeah, not that unexpected to find a broken Athlon die in that situation, regardless of when it happened. […]
Show full quote

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-27, 03:12:

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-17, 04:03:

Got this Jetway 663AS Pro, been after a Socket A board with both ISA and Universal AGP for a while but never found one at the ri […]
Show full quote

Got this Jetway 663AS Pro, been after a Socket A board with both ISA and Universal AGP for a while but never found one at the right price that didn't require me to recap the bastard. So when I spotted this one I threw the seller a offer for it and it was accepted, comes with a Athlon 1.1 Ghz and a chunky Spire cooler .. pretty sure its one of the Thunderbird models as it doesn't identify with the Athlon XP monkier. Board doesn't appear to be anything super special but the caps all look to be in good condition and aside from needing a clean the board itself is in good nick.

Figure with ISA and Uni AGP it would make for a really nice top end DOS/Win98se Box, appears its also using PC133 ram which will also work well for such a rig.

Jetway KT133.jpgJetway Post.jpgSpire Cooler.jpg

I believe there is a Ultra version of this board with the KT133A chipset .. not sure what the difference is between the chipsets but the two boards appear to be identical otherwise.

So this arrived today and the seller actually sent it with the cooler attached 🤣, was crazily well packed so it couldn't move during shipping. I have since removed the spire cooler which came off pretty easy and inspected the die. Seems its taken a hit previously with one corner chipped so I may switch the cooler to a better one that doesn't require pliers to reattach.

Will likely use the spire cooler on a Tualaron 1400 setup instead since it has a IHS to protect the die.

Youch... yeah, not that unexpected to find a broken Athlon die in that situation, regardless of when it happened.

It's sad to say, but I feel like functional Socket A systems are going to become scarce unexpectedly. The chips are just SO fragile and the coolers were such a pain in the butt to install and remove. At least with Socket 370 there are some CPU options with heat spreaders for either the older or the newer boards.

Unless someone figures out how to transplant a Slot A CPU to a Socket A board with an adapter, we're going to end up with an abundance of homeless Slot A CPUs (which we already have) and empty Socket A motherboards and relatively few working systems of either platform.

I don't seek out CPUs, but I think in all of the hardware lots I've gotten over the past 7 years I've only gotten a couple intact Socket A and Socket 370 CPUs. It also doesn't help that Socket A is kind of in that funky area where it isn't exceptional for any particular type of retro build because the boards rarely have ISA, and the CPUs are easily outpaced by slightly newer Athlon 64 systems. So we don't see a lot of preservation efforts and people collecting and babying the CPUs... at least I haven't.

The CPU itself seems to function just fine but I don't want to damage it any further so that spire cooler can go to a more appropriate CPU. I have several Socket A boards and a small collection of CPUs for them but I also have just as many dead Socket A CPUs. I'm trying my best to keep them in a working state but Socket A Coolers can be a pain in the ass with their attachment points...also Socket A boards were smack bang in the middle of the Cap Plague which means they either need extensive recapping or will need it in the near future.

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-27, 03:32:

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-27, 03:24:

Youch... yeah, not that unexpected to find a broken Athlon die in that situation, regardless of when it happened. […]
Show full quote

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-27, 03:12:

So this arrived today and the seller actually sent it with the cooler attached 🤣, was crazily well packed so it couldn't move during shipping. I have since removed the spire cooler which came off pretty easy and inspected the die. Seems its taken a hit previously with one corner chipped so I may switch the cooler to a better one that doesn't require pliers to reattach.

Will likely use the spire cooler on a Tualaron 1400 setup instead since it has a IHS to protect the die.

Youch... yeah, not that unexpected to find a broken Athlon die in that situation, regardless of when it happened.

It's sad to say, but I feel like functional Socket A systems are going to become scarce unexpectedly. The chips are just SO fragile and the coolers were such a pain in the butt to install and remove. At least with Socket 370 there are some CPU options with heat spreaders for either the older or the newer boards.

Unless someone figures out how to transplant a Slot A CPU to a Socket A board with an adapter, we're going to end up with an abundance of homeless Slot A CPUs (which we already have) and empty Socket A motherboards and relatively few working systems of either platform.

I don't seek out CPUs, but I think in all of the hardware lots I've gotten over the past 7 years I've only gotten a couple intact Socket A and Socket 370 CPUs. It also doesn't help that Socket A is kind of in that funky area where it isn't exceptional for any particular type of retro build because the boards rarely have ISA, and the CPUs are easily outpaced by slightly newer Athlon 64 systems. So we don't see a lot of preservation efforts and people collecting and babying the CPUs... at least I haven't.

The CPU itself seems to function just fine but I don't want to damage it any further so that spire cooler can go to a more appropriate CPU. I have several Socket A boards and a small collection of CPUs for them but I also have just as many dead Socket A CPUs. I'm trying my best to keep them in a working state but Socket A Coolers can be a pain in the ass with their attachment points...also Socket A boards were smack bang in the middle of the Cap Plague which means they either need extensive recapping or will need it in the near future.

Yeah, the cap plague is also really bad on Socket A boards.

Hmm... maybe I should get around to replacing some caps on my old K7S5A some time soon. That board has "been through some stuff" ... to say the least.

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-27, 03:32:

The CPU itself seems to function just fine but I don't want to damage it any further so that spire cooler can go to a more appropriate CPU. I have several Socket A boards and a small collection of CPUs for them but I also have just as many dead Socket A CPUs. I'm trying my best to keep them in a working state but Socket A Coolers can be a pain in the ass with their attachment points...also Socket A boards were smack bang in the middle of the Cap Plague which means they either need extensive recapping or will need it in the near future.

What's the common cause of CPU death? I wonder if some 3D printer brackets could help with some of the cooler frustration.

I recently purchased an electric pump desoldering gun. It sounds like Socket A boards would be a good candidate for taking it through the paces.

Asininity wrote on 2023-02-27, 05:14:

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-27, 03:32:

The CPU itself seems to function just fine but I don't want to damage it any further so that spire cooler can go to a more appropriate CPU. I have several Socket A boards and a small collection of CPUs for them but I also have just as many dead Socket A CPUs. I'm trying my best to keep them in a working state but Socket A Coolers can be a pain in the ass with their attachment points...also Socket A boards were smack bang in the middle of the Cap Plague which means they either need extensive recapping or will need it in the near future.

What's the common cause of CPU death? I wonder if some 3D printer brackets could help with some of the cooler frustration.

I recently purchased an electric pump desoldering gun. It sounds like Socket A boards would be a good candidate for taking it through the paces.

The socket A CPUs don't have a IHS to protect the die so its a direct to die heatsink and AMD in their brilliance didn't really provide a great way to keep the cooler level or a way to prevent too much pressure when installing so one minor slip and it chips the die a bit too much pressure and it cracks it. now they did put soft felt pads on the CPU to help but they are woefully inadequate for the task. IIRC there were shims produced that keep the cooler level and from applying too much pressure but getting them nowadays is pretty much impossible.

a 3d printed bracket would be awesome, not sure how easy it would be to make one.

You can see on the picture below what I mean by pads and direct die.

Not just socket A motherboards but Socket 370 and 423 boards as well, there was a whole range of them afflicted by the cap plague but Socket A being smack in the middle caught the worst of it.

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-27, 03:40:

Hmm... maybe I should get around to replacing some caps on my old K7S5A some time soon. That board has "been through some stuff" ... to say the least.

I have two of those need done too. One is def a battlescarred veteran was running a tbred at 2.2Ghz at one point. The other lost it's USB and I was gonna make a surfing box out of it with a Duron back in the day, then cracked the duron, derpy derp derp.

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-02-27, 05:29:

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-27, 03:40:

Hmm... maybe I should get around to replacing some caps on my old K7S5A some time soon. That board has "been through some stuff" ... to say the least.

I have two of those need done too. One is def a battlescarred veteran was running a tbred at 2.2Ghz at one point. The other lost it's USB and I was gonna make a surfing box out of it with a Duron back in the day, then cracked the duron, derpy derp derp.

Sounds like yours have been through some stuff too!

Mine has a great story. Let's see if I can remember it... some of these details may be wrong since it was over 20 years ago... but this tale of woe is pretty close to what happened.

I "needed" to upgrade my less than 2 year old custom built PC from a 750Mhz Athlon Slot A when Morrowind was about to be released, so I got a Socket A Athlon Thunderbird 1.33Ghz (AYHJA I believe?) and an ECS K7S5A. It worked well enough from what I remember. Then one day a year or so later a close relative who was also into this stuff (don't want to point anyone out specifically... 🤣) was doing some work on their PC and there was something involving a screwdriver sheering off the tab on the CPU heatsink and damaging the motherboard... and possibly cracking the die on an Athlon XP 2100+ (then top of the line). There may have even been a mishap with Arctic Silver in there somehow, but I don't want to confuse other events...

In any case, we were diagnosing things and we ended up trying their CPU in my board and my CPU in their board... aaaand... when all was said and done, my system didn't even work. 😮 We were pretty sure that all of the boards and CPUs were now died... hundreds of dollars in damage, and we weren't exactly wealthy. So, we cried a little inside and out, replaced both the boards, and got different CPUs too. Why not upgrade, eh? 🤣

Fast forward a few years and a buddy of mine needed a PC on a budget but I didn't have a lot of parts on hand. I dug out the old K7S5A and to my astonishment the stinking thing worked now! So my buddy got a PC. Then, he had a lightning strike at his house at some point and it blew up the PSU in this PC. It was so bad there was a brown tinge to part of the ATX 20 pin housing on the K7s5A.

I was certain it was finally dead but I took it back and kept it anyway. Years after that I tested it and it WORKED AGAIN. I upgraded it with a 3rd party BIOS that supported 266Mhz Barton Mobile(!) CPUs, threw in a 2Ghz 2400+, 1GB of DDR 266 and then gave it to my mom for a really simple system for looking things up online. It was outdated at that time, but I see now it was actually quite a retro gaming sleeper. It had a gorgeous blue Albatron GF4 Ti 4200 Turbo (still have) and I believe a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz.

Eventually, it had some issues and I saw it had bad caps so I replaced those and it worked fine. Later on she didn't use it anymore and I took it back and saw that a few of the other caps had started to swell, and it has been in storage since.

This thing has 9 lives I think. 😁

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-27, 05:29:

The socket A CPUs don't have a IHS to protect the die so its a direct to die heatsink and AMD in their brilliance didn't really […]
Show full quote

Asininity wrote on 2023-02-27, 05:14:

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-27, 03:32:

The CPU itself seems to function just fine but I don't want to damage it any further so that spire cooler can go to a more appropriate CPU. I have several Socket A boards and a small collection of CPUs for them but I also have just as many dead Socket A CPUs. I'm trying my best to keep them in a working state but Socket A Coolers can be a pain in the ass with their attachment points...also Socket A boards were smack bang in the middle of the Cap Plague which means they either need extensive recapping or will need it in the near future.

What's the common cause of CPU death? I wonder if some 3D printer brackets could help with some of the cooler frustration.

I recently purchased an electric pump desoldering gun. It sounds like Socket A boards would be a good candidate for taking it through the paces.

The socket A CPUs don't have a IHS to protect the die so its a direct to die heatsink and AMD in their brilliance didn't really provide a great way to keep the cooler level or a way to prevent too much pressure when installing so one minor slip and it chips the die a bit too much pressure and it cracks it. now they did put soft felt pads on the CPU to help but they are woefully inadequate for the task. IIRC there were shims produced that keep the cooler level and from applying too much pressure but getting them nowadays is pretty much impossible.

a 3d printed bracket would be awesome, not sure how easy it would be to make one.

You can see on the picture below what I mean by pads and direct die.

Yes but even without the foam pads, using a shim is advised on these CPUs.
I still have one or two. And i'm using one on my XP3200+ (fragile and increasingly hard to find).
I think these can definitely be 3d printed, but probably more easily laser/plasma cut from a metal sheet.

Article about Socket A shims : https://www.legitreviews.com/what-is-a-shim-a … -you-use-one_64

acl wrote on 2023-02-27, 10:40:

Yes but even without the foam pads, using a shim is advised on these CPUs. I still have one or two. And i'm using one on my XP32 […]
Show full quote

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-27, 05:29:

The socket A CPUs don't have a IHS to protect the die so its a direct to die heatsink and AMD in their brilliance didn't really […]
Show full quote

Asininity wrote on 2023-02-27, 05:14:

What's the common cause of CPU death? I wonder if some 3D printer brackets could help with some of the cooler frustration.

I recently purchased an electric pump desoldering gun. It sounds like Socket A boards would be a good candidate for taking it through the paces.

The socket A CPUs don't have a IHS to protect the die so its a direct to die heatsink and AMD in their brilliance didn't really provide a great way to keep the cooler level or a way to prevent too much pressure when installing so one minor slip and it chips the die a bit too much pressure and it cracks it. now they did put soft felt pads on the CPU to help but they are woefully inadequate for the task. IIRC there were shims produced that keep the cooler level and from applying too much pressure but getting them nowadays is pretty much impossible.

a 3d printed bracket would be awesome, not sure how easy it would be to make one.

You can see on the picture below what I mean by pads and direct die.

Yes but even without the foam pads, using a shim is advised on these CPUs.
I still have one or two. And i'm using one on my XP3200+ (fragile and increasingly hard to find).
I think these can definitely be 3d printed, but probably more easily laser/plasma cut from a metal sheet.

Screenshot from 2023-02-27 11-36-49.png

Article about Socket A shims : https://www.legitreviews.com/what-is-a-shim-a … -you-use-one_64

I would love it if one of the 3d printer aficionados here could knock up a few designs others could use, these CPUs are certainly not getting any less fragile with age.

Same for shims to protect the P3 CPUs that came naked from Intel.

Question though . .what is the thickness of these metal shims ?

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-27, 11:03:

I would love it if one of the 3d printer aficionados here could knock up a few designs others could use, these CPUs are certainl […]
Show full quote

acl wrote on 2023-02-27, 10:40:

Yes but even without the foam pads, using a shim is advised on these CPUs. I still have one or two. And i'm using one on my XP32 […]
Show full quote

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-27, 05:29:

The socket A CPUs don't have a IHS to protect the die so its a direct to die heatsink and AMD in their brilliance didn't really provide a great way to keep the cooler level or a way to prevent too much pressure when installing so one minor slip and it chips the die a bit too much pressure and it cracks it. now they did put soft felt pads on the CPU to help but they are woefully inadequate for the task. IIRC there were shims produced that keep the cooler level and from applying too much pressure but getting them nowadays is pretty much impossible.

a 3d printed bracket would be awesome, not sure how easy it would be to make one.

You can see on the picture below what I mean by pads and direct die.

Yes but even without the foam pads, using a shim is advised on these CPUs.
I still have one or two. And i'm using one on my XP3200+ (fragile and increasingly hard to find).
I think these can definitely be 3d printed, but probably more easily laser/plasma cut from a metal sheet.

Screenshot from 2023-02-27 11-36-49.png

Article about Socket A shims : https://www.legitreviews.com/what-is-a-shim-a … -you-use-one_64

I would love it if one of the 3d printer aficionados here could knock up a few designs others could use, these CPUs are certainly not getting any less fragile with age.

Same for shims to protect the P3 CPUs that came naked from Intel.

Question though . .what is the thickness of these metal shims ?

How hot do those CPU's get? Important to know because if it's too hot I wouldn't 3D print them.

Yoghoo wrote on 2023-02-27, 11:29:

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-27, 11:03:

I would love it if one of the 3d printer aficionados here could knock up a few designs others could use, these CPUs are certainl […]
Show full quote

acl wrote on 2023-02-27, 10:40:

Yes but even without the foam pads, using a shim is advised on these CPUs. I still have one or two. And i'm using one on my XP32 […]
Show full quote

Yes but even without the foam pads, using a shim is advised on these CPUs.
I still have one or two. And i'm using one on my XP3200+ (fragile and increasingly hard to find).
I think these can definitely be 3d printed, but probably more easily laser/plasma cut from a metal sheet.

Screenshot from 2023-02-27 11-36-49.png

Article about Socket A shims : https://www.legitreviews.com/what-is-a-shim-a … -you-use-one_64

I would love it if one of the 3d printer aficionados here could knock up a few designs others could use, these CPUs are certainly not getting any less fragile with age.

Same for shims to protect the P3 CPUs that came naked from Intel.

Question though . .what is the thickness of these metal shims ?

How hot do those CPU's get? Important to know because if it's too hot I wouldn't 3D print them.

The die itself can get hot but the rest of the CPU doesn't and the shim doesn't go near the die due to the SMD caps around it, the shim is really there to prevent over pressure and tilting of the cooler during install. (It wont ever get hot enough to affect the 3d print material since the cooler itself will be drawing the heat up and away from it)

You can see from the pic below what I mean, the dies are tiny so the shim doesnt need to be close to them.

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-27, 11:03:

Question though . .what is the thickness of these metal shims ?

0.75mm for couple aluminum blue anodized ones. This may not be 100% accurate since it's a few years since I measured 😁

Make sure not to short anything with metal shims they can move a bit if pads are worn off and some shims only fit original thunderbird / palomino.

timsdf wrote on 2023-02-27, 11:48:

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-27, 11:03:

Question though . .what is the thickness of these metal shims ?

0.75mm for couple aluminum blue anodized ones. This may not be 100% accurate since it's a few years since I measured 😁

Make sure not to short anything with metal shims they can move a bit if pads are worn off and some shims only fit original thunderbird / palomino.

Should be possible to design ones that will work across a range of Athlon's/Pentium IIIs, then you only commission the model you need printed/cut. (I feel some printed ones would work well and certainly be cheap enough to warrant the effort)

I would tackle it myself but I know very little about designing patterns for 3d printing and don't have the free time to sit down and learn the process. (It is on my bucket list along with getting a 3d printer)