+SAVED+

+SAVED+

I'd start with the Shuttle Spacewalker 591P Ver 3.1 and get that going first. The others I'd test and see what I can do with them and how they run. But just on what you presented, I think that is what I'd run an MMX on.

the3dfxdude wrote on 2023-03-05, 22:41:

I'd start with the Shuttle Spacewalker 591P Ver 3.1 and get that going first. The others I'd test and see what I can do with them and how they run. But just on what you presented, I think that is what I'd run an MMX on.

Just realised this one has a AGP slot also!
I need to check if It has a ps/2 mouse header somewhere.

It seems like this board is midway between AT and ATX form factor.

So it's a PC , not a All in one pc like the Vintage Computer All-in-One Panasonic CF-55 ... If you go with AGP 2X you can get 4x gpu's also to work, TI4600(or quadro version) my favourite. I have K6's and used a long time older sk7 IBM CPU (233 i think) probably faster the IBM CPU than most K6 or Intel , so if you find one test one. as for ram.... if you got SDR on that board max it out , why not , dos uses only as much as it need's to aniway's.

ediflorianUS wrote on 2023-03-06, 14:16:

So it's a PC , not a All in one pc like the Vintage Computer All-in-One Panasonic CF-55 ... If you go with AGP 2X you can get 4x gpu's also to work, TI4600(or quadro version) my favourite. I have K6's and used a long time older sk7 IBM CPU (233 i think) probably faster the IBM CPU than most K6 or Intel , so if you find one test one. as for ram.... if you got SDR on that board max it out , why not , dos uses only as much as it need's to aniway's.

All-in-one might be badly expressed. What I meant is that this build should be able to slow down as a 386 and as fast as a 200MMX to be able to play a wide range of games.

Pingaloka wrote on 2023-03-06, 07:03:

Just realised this one has a AGP slot also! I need to check if It has a ps/2 mouse header somewhere. […]
Show full quote

the3dfxdude wrote on 2023-03-05, 22:41:

I'd start with the Shuttle Spacewalker 591P Ver 3.1 and get that going first. The others I'd test and see what I can do with them and how they run. But just on what you presented, I think that is what I'd run an MMX on.

Just realised this one has a AGP slot also!
I need to check if It has a ps/2 mouse header somewhere.

It seems like this board is midway between AT and ATX form factor.

It can fit in many cases of both types of the time. Even the quintessential 430tx chipset for the mmx, you could buy boards that had both connectors. I think I still have one that way. Since you have selected an AT case, you'll be fine with either power supply. Which can be nice. Many boards have ps/2 as well, which yours does. I think some have usb too. So the shuttle board has alot of flexibility, you may be able to get it running quickly.

Since you do not have a 430tx in your list, the best ones seem to be the via chips, with the shuttle board seems like the correct fit for the mmx. The other one has a barrel battery to deal with. The other thing you got to check on here, is most of the rest of these you do not indicate if they explicitly support p55c, for the mmx's dual voltage. They may indeed be too old. Which means you would be looking for an interposer or overdrive to deal with that. For that SiS one, it may be an odd fit for an AT case, and you may not have the riser for the sound card.

The shuttle is what I would probably go with. It's a super socket 7 board so you'd have the option to clock up to a K6-2/3 if you wanted to in the future, that AGP slot sure is pretty, and ATX compatibility.

Downside from what I can see is that the boards layout is pretty terrible due to the CPU socket's location. Doesn't look like larger length PCI cards will work on it so may want to check card length. There are shorter length Trios that would probably work (I had a Phoenix model that barely clears the PCI slot itself but my current Cardex would likely not fit there. Voodoos would entirely likely be out). If you wanted to utilize the AGP slot, there are AGP versions of VIRGE cards (they use the same 2D graphic core as a Trio). Here is a good chart for DOS VGA compatibility across several brands: https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/

If that's a deal breaker for you, the tomato or the FIC boards are likely my #2. Both are pretty similar so either works. More info on the tomato here: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/zida-5dhx-ver.-1.20

The others I don't like because of battery reasons (MSI MS5117 Ver 2./Vintage Trigear L-9650-8) or card length reasons like the shuttle but not having the SS7 advantage (MSI MS-5130).

Well, the best one there is probably the mvp3

You could run your pentium 200 at 100mhz x2 and use agp cards.

Your upgrade options for cpu are also easier compared to some of the onthers.

gen_angry wrote on 2023-03-06, 16:29:

If that's a deal breaker for you, the tomato or the FIC boards are likely my #2. Both are pretty similar so either works. More info on the tomato here: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/zida-5dhx-ver.-1.20

Ah, so the tomato has 430hx triton ii, so it has MMX support. Also, it looks like it has USB and ps/2 😀 The FIC seems to be 430fx triton i, so no mmx out of box.

Pingaloka wrote on 2023-03-05, 21:58:

8. Storage I'll be using a PCMCIA Reader Card 3.5" Bay and have bought a PCMCIA to CF adapter so I can use 1 x 2GB CF for MS-DOS […]
Show full quote

8. Storage
I'll be using a PCMCIA Reader Card 3.5" Bay and have bought a PCMCIA to CF adapter so I can use 1 x 2GB CF for MS-DOS 6.22 and another 1 x 2GB CF for Windows 95

Kudos on the "legit" era plausible flash storage. Every time someone says "but you can't do it authentic blah blah" I say. Yes you can, PCMCIA, and ATA Flash cards if you get one cheap or have the coin, but use CF adapters as stand ins. I've got a setup I'm waiting for the right system for, plus my "token" real PCMCIA flash card I've owned for decades (Only 2MB so it can't get Doom on, booo) Keep meaning to order CF adapters, but keep forgetting.

the3dfxdude wrote on 2023-03-06, 18:35:

gen_angry wrote on 2023-03-06, 16:29:

If that's a deal breaker for you, the tomato or the FIC boards are likely my #2. Both are pretty similar so either works. More info on the tomato here: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/zida-5dhx-ver.-1.20

Ah, so the tomato has 430hx triton ii, so it has MMX support. Also, it looks like it has USB and ps/2 😀 The FIC seems to be 430fx triton i, so no mmx out of box.

Neither of those look like they have split core voltage, so would be limited to P54 (non-MMX)

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-03-06, 19:01:

the3dfxdude wrote on 2023-03-06, 18:35:

gen_angry wrote on 2023-03-06, 16:29:

If that's a deal breaker for you, the tomato or the FIC boards are likely my #2. Both are pretty similar so either works. More info on the tomato here: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/zida-5dhx-ver.-1.20

Ah, so the tomato has 430hx triton ii, so it has MMX support. Also, it looks like it has USB and ps/2 😀 The FIC seems to be 430fx triton i, so no mmx out of box.

Neither of those look like they have split core voltage, so would be limited to P54 (non-MMX)

Yes, if u26/28? on the tomato is the voltage regulator, it's missing, and also the jumpers are hardwired to 3.3v.

the3dfxdude wrote on 2023-03-06, 21:02:

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-03-06, 19:01:

the3dfxdude wrote on 2023-03-06, 18:35:

Ah, so the tomato has 430hx triton ii, so it has MMX support. Also, it looks like it has USB and ps/2 😀 The FIC seems to be 430fx triton i, so no mmx out of box.

Neither of those look like they have split core voltage, so would be limited to P54 (non-MMX)

Yes, if u26/28? on the tomato is the voltage regulator, it's missing, and also the jumpers are hardwired to 3.3v.

The Zida Tomato 5DHX Rev. 1.2 seems to be compatible with MMX CPUs, also the MSI MS-5130 but that board can be a bit complicated to work with because of the PS/2 keyboard / Mouse headers location, I would have to check with the AT case I'll be using.

The MSI MS5117 doesn't seem to be able to handle MMX CPUs, plus it has a barrel battery although that one you guys see is new as I changed it.

TheTrigear L-9650-8 nobody has voted for and it has the hideous battery system. IT's the first time I see this brand.

So, this leaves me with 2 options right now:

1. Zida Tomato 5DHX Rev. 1.2
2. Shuttle Spacewalker 591P Ver 3.1

They can both do MMX, and both have PS/2 Mouse headers.
The Shutte Spacewalker can do AGP but I think I'll stick with a S3 Trio64+ PCI or Virge DX PCI graphics card to be honest. Don't see any advantage for DOS gaming using an AGP graphics card appart from maybe capturing video purposes or playing 3D games on W95 / W98, which I'm not. Nevertheless I'm inclined more towards the The Shutte Spacewalker motherboards as it has more upgrade options plus the VIA chipset is more advanced than the 5DHX from the Zida Tomato board?

Question: Why do people prefer using an ATX PSU reather than an AT PSU? Is it because you can buy and use a new ATX one and normally they are not as old? That is a pretty good reason already. They are more reliable?

Question 2: Any advantages using an AGP graphic card on Ms-DOS and W95? Any recommended model?

Thanks for the comments guys!

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-03-06, 19:01:

the3dfxdude wrote on 2023-03-06, 18:35:

gen_angry wrote on 2023-03-06, 16:29:

If that's a deal breaker for you, the tomato or the FIC boards are likely my #2. Both are pretty similar so either works. More info on the tomato here: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/zida-5dhx-ver.-1.20

Ah, so the tomato has 430hx triton ii, so it has MMX support. Also, it looks like it has USB and ps/2 😀 The FIC seems to be 430fx triton i, so no mmx out of box.

Neither of those look like they have split core voltage, so would be limited to P54 (non-MMX)

Good catch, I didn't even think about the split voltage thing. In that case, would either have to stick with a board that supports it natively, go with one of those powerleap things, or settle for a 200 non MMX.

Pingaloka wrote on 2023-03-06, 21:38:

The Zida Tomato 5DHX Rev. 1.2 seems to be compatible with MMX CPUs, also the MSI MS-5130 but that board can be a bit complicated […]
Show full quote

the3dfxdude wrote on 2023-03-06, 21:02:

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-03-06, 19:01:

Neither of those look like they have split core voltage, so would be limited to P54 (non-MMX)

Yes, if u26/28? on the tomato is the voltage regulator, it's missing, and also the jumpers are hardwired to 3.3v.

The Zida Tomato 5DHX Rev. 1.2 seems to be compatible with MMX CPUs, also the MSI MS-5130 but that board can be a bit complicated to work with because of the PS/2 keyboard / Mouse headers location, I would have to check with the AT case I'll be using.

The MSI MS5117 doesn't seem to be able to handle MMX CPUs, plus it has a barrel battery although that one you guys see is new as I changed it.

TheTrigear L-9650-8 nobody has voted for and it has the hideous battery system. IT's the first time I see this brand.

So, this leaves me with 2 options right now:

1. Zida Tomato 5DHX Rev. 1.2
2. Shuttle Spacewalker 591P Ver 3.1

They can both do MMX, and both have PS/2 Mouse headers.
The Shutte Spacewalker can do AGP but I think I'll stick with a S3 Trio64+ PCI or Virge DX PCI graphics card to be honest. Don't see any advantage for DOS gaming using an AGP graphics card appart from maybe capturing video purposes or playing 3D games on W95 / W98, which I'm not. Nevertheless I'm inclined more towards the The Shutte Spacewalker motherboards as it has more upgrade options plus the VIA chipset is more advanced than the 5DHX from the Zida Tomato board?

Question: Why do people prefer using an ATX PSU reather than an AT PSU? Is it because you can buy and use a new ATX one and normally they are not as old? That is a pretty good reason already. They are more reliable?

Question 2: Any advantages using an AGP graphic card on Ms-DOS and W95? Any recommended model?

Thanks for the comments guys!

Answer 1 - newer supplies are more reliable in general. As power supplies age, the capacitors in them can dry out and cause issues. I've had a number of older grey-box supplies just suddenly die and take out parts with them over the years. Not to mention, they're far more efficient than they used to be - even 80% power efficiency was unheard of back then.

Downside is, PSUs today are designed around mostly 12v where as systems in the past were designed around 3.3v and 5v. So you'll have to be a bit choosy on which modern supplies that you use, pay attention to the spec sheets.

Answer 2 - for DOS? No real advantage aside from keeping a PCI slot free and well, if you have it you might as well use it. It matters more for later Windows 3D stuff. Downside would be Win 3.1 driver support due to the newer cards mostly if you care about that any. For DOS and pre Pentium II builds, PCI is perfectly fine for graphics.

Agp gfx cards seem to have more and cheaper options for faster models. Like radeon 7000-9000 series, geforce 2-4 series. Would be good bets.

Note though that these first gen agp slots sometimes didn’t play nice with all cards.

I have a radeon 9000 though that plays well in most of my ss7 stuff. Some of my ss7 mobos will even run my 9800 pro. But not all.

A radeon 9250, quadro2, gf3, radeon 7500 agp would be really nice and affordable options here.

The dos gurus may have different recommendations though. I mostly do windows stuff with my hardware.

gen_angry wrote on 2023-03-06, 21:59:

Good catch, I didn't even think about the split voltage thing. In that case, would either have to stick with a board that suppor […]
Show full quote

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-03-06, 19:01:

the3dfxdude wrote on 2023-03-06, 18:35:

Ah, so the tomato has 430hx triton ii, so it has MMX support. Also, it looks like it has USB and ps/2 😀 The FIC seems to be 430fx triton i, so no mmx out of box.

Neither of those look like they have split core voltage, so would be limited to P54 (non-MMX)

Good catch, I didn't even think about the split voltage thing. In that case, would either have to stick with a board that supports it natively, go with one of those powerleap things, or settle for a 200 non MMX.

Pingaloka wrote on 2023-03-06, 21:38:

The Zida Tomato 5DHX Rev. 1.2 seems to be compatible with MMX CPUs, also the MSI MS-5130 but that board can be a bit complicated […]
Show full quote

the3dfxdude wrote on 2023-03-06, 21:02:

Yes, if u26/28? on the tomato is the voltage regulator, it's missing, and also the jumpers are hardwired to 3.3v.

The Zida Tomato 5DHX Rev. 1.2 seems to be compatible with MMX CPUs, also the MSI MS-5130 but that board can be a bit complicated to work with because of the PS/2 keyboard / Mouse headers location, I would have to check with the AT case I'll be using.

The MSI MS5117 doesn't seem to be able to handle MMX CPUs, plus it has a barrel battery although that one you guys see is new as I changed it.

TheTrigear L-9650-8 nobody has voted for and it has the hideous battery system. IT's the first time I see this brand.

So, this leaves me with 2 options right now:

1. Zida Tomato 5DHX Rev. 1.2
2. Shuttle Spacewalker 591P Ver 3.1

They can both do MMX, and both have PS/2 Mouse headers.
The Shutte Spacewalker can do AGP but I think I'll stick with a S3 Trio64+ PCI or Virge DX PCI graphics card to be honest. Don't see any advantage for DOS gaming using an AGP graphics card appart from maybe capturing video purposes or playing 3D games on W95 / W98, which I'm not. Nevertheless I'm inclined more towards the The Shutte Spacewalker motherboards as it has more upgrade options plus the VIA chipset is more advanced than the 5DHX from the Zida Tomato board?

Question: Why do people prefer using an ATX PSU reather than an AT PSU? Is it because you can buy and use a new ATX one and normally they are not as old? That is a pretty good reason already. They are more reliable?

Question 2: Any advantages using an AGP graphic card on Ms-DOS and W95? Any recommended model?

Thanks for the comments guys!

Answer 1 - newer supplies are more reliable in general. As power supplies age, the capacitors in them can dry out and cause issues. I've had a number of older grey-box supplies just suddenly die and take out parts with them over the years. Not to mention, they're far more efficient than they used to be - even 80% power efficiency was unheard of back then.

Downside is, PSUs today are designed around mostly 12v where as systems in the past were designed around 3.3v and 5v. So you'll have to be a bit choosy on which modern supplies that you use, pay attention to the spec sheets.

Answer 2 - for DOS? No real advantage aside from keeping a PCI slot free and well, if you have it you might as well use it. It matters more for later Windows 3D stuff. Downside would be Win 3.1 driver support due to the newer cards mostly if you care about that any. For DOS and pre Pentium II builds, PCI is perfectly fine for graphics.

I'm looking around for an ATX PSU but all of them seem to do 12V+, they do actually sell new power supplies compatible with super socket 7 boards? Do they actually fit in an AT Case?

Pingaloka wrote on 2023-03-07, 06:51:

gen_angry wrote on 2023-03-06, 21:59:

Good catch, I didn't even think about the split voltage thing. In that case, would either have to stick with a board that suppor […]
Show full quote

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-03-06, 19:01:

Neither of those look like they have split core voltage, so would be limited to P54 (non-MMX)

Good catch, I didn't even think about the split voltage thing. In that case, would either have to stick with a board that supports it natively, go with one of those powerleap things, or settle for a 200 non MMX.

Pingaloka wrote on 2023-03-06, 21:38:

The Zida Tomato 5DHX Rev. 1.2 seems to be compatible with MMX CPUs, also the MSI MS-5130 but that board can be a bit complicated […]
Show full quote

The Zida Tomato 5DHX Rev. 1.2 seems to be compatible with MMX CPUs, also the MSI MS-5130 but that board can be a bit complicated to work with because of the PS/2 keyboard / Mouse headers location, I would have to check with the AT case I'll be using.

The MSI MS5117 doesn't seem to be able to handle MMX CPUs, plus it has a barrel battery although that one you guys see is new as I changed it.

TheTrigear L-9650-8 nobody has voted for and it has the hideous battery system. IT's the first time I see this brand.

So, this leaves me with 2 options right now:

1. Zida Tomato 5DHX Rev. 1.2
2. Shuttle Spacewalker 591P Ver 3.1

They can both do MMX, and both have PS/2 Mouse headers.
The Shutte Spacewalker can do AGP but I think I'll stick with a S3 Trio64+ PCI or Virge DX PCI graphics card to be honest. Don't see any advantage for DOS gaming using an AGP graphics card appart from maybe capturing video purposes or playing 3D games on W95 / W98, which I'm not. Nevertheless I'm inclined more towards the The Shutte Spacewalker motherboards as it has more upgrade options plus the VIA chipset is more advanced than the 5DHX from the Zida Tomato board?

Question: Why do people prefer using an ATX PSU reather than an AT PSU? Is it because you can buy and use a new ATX one and normally they are not as old? That is a pretty good reason already. They are more reliable?

Question 2: Any advantages using an AGP graphic card on Ms-DOS and W95? Any recommended model?

Thanks for the comments guys!

Answer 1 - newer supplies are more reliable in general. As power supplies age, the capacitors in them can dry out and cause issues. I've had a number of older grey-box supplies just suddenly die and take out parts with them over the years. Not to mention, they're far more efficient than they used to be - even 80% power efficiency was unheard of back then.

Downside is, PSUs today are designed around mostly 12v where as systems in the past were designed around 3.3v and 5v. So you'll have to be a bit choosy on which modern supplies that you use, pay attention to the spec sheets.

Answer 2 - for DOS? No real advantage aside from keeping a PCI slot free and well, if you have it you might as well use it. It matters more for later Windows 3D stuff. Downside would be Win 3.1 driver support due to the newer cards mostly if you care about that any. For DOS and pre Pentium II builds, PCI is perfectly fine for graphics.

I'm looking around for an ATX PSU but all of them seem to do 12V+, they do actually sell new power supplies compatible with super socket 7 boards? Do they actually fit in an AT Case?

I use new atx psus all the time with ss7 stuff.

No -5v
And extra 4 pins.

But that’s not usually a problem.

ATX to AT pico Adapter! + Fan Headers Soft on/off, -5v, and 3.3v (Released)

There is also this

Sphere478 wrote on 2023-03-07, 07:33:

I use new atx psus all the time with ss7 stuff. […]
Show full quote

Pingaloka wrote on 2023-03-07, 06:51:

gen_angry wrote on 2023-03-06, 21:59:

Good catch, I didn't even think about the split voltage thing. In that case, would either have to stick with a board that suppor […]
Show full quote

Good catch, I didn't even think about the split voltage thing. In that case, would either have to stick with a board that supports it natively, go with one of those powerleap things, or settle for a 200 non MMX.

Answer 1 - newer supplies are more reliable in general. As power supplies age, the capacitors in them can dry out and cause issues. I've had a number of older grey-box supplies just suddenly die and take out parts with them over the years. Not to mention, they're far more efficient than they used to be - even 80% power efficiency was unheard of back then.

Downside is, PSUs today are designed around mostly 12v where as systems in the past were designed around 3.3v and 5v. So you'll have to be a bit choosy on which modern supplies that you use, pay attention to the spec sheets.

Answer 2 - for DOS? No real advantage aside from keeping a PCI slot free and well, if you have it you might as well use it. It matters more for later Windows 3D stuff. Downside would be Win 3.1 driver support due to the newer cards mostly if you care about that any. For DOS and pre Pentium II builds, PCI is perfectly fine for graphics.

I'm looking around for an ATX PSU but all of them seem to do 12V+, they do actually sell new power supplies compatible with super socket 7 boards? Do they actually fit in an AT Case?

I use new atx psus all the time with ss7 stuff.

No -5v
And extra 4 pins.

But that’s not usually a problem.

ATX to AT pico Adapter! + Fan Headers Soft on/off, -5v, and 3.3v (Released)

There is also this

The -5V is only necessary for some boards such as the Sound Blaster 2.0 correct?