Irinikus wrote on 2023-09-07, 07:25:

Thanks! :) […]
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Thanks! 😀

Here's some information from the E7525 MCH data sheet showing that it can address 16GB of RAM? (The only way it could accomplish this is with 8 x 2GB sticks slotted?)

Sorry, just to be clear, I wasn't talking memory capacity (yes 16GB) but memory addressing ranks - both the E7525 & E7520 chipsets are limited to a max of 8 ranks, so to achieve 16GB (installed as DIMM pairs) you're limited to either eight single rank (1R) 2GB DIMMs or four dual rank (2R) 4GB DIMMs. I've attached a pic of the single rank 2GB DIMMs I use on my Supermicro X6DH8-XG2...they're all Kingston but some are Dell OEM (from a PowerEdge 2850).

2GB single rank DDR2 400 ECC DIMMS are pretty expensive! (As they're pretty rare!)

Thanks for the info, as this may have caught me out! 😀

Irinikus wrote on 2023-09-07, 09:57:

2GB single rank DDR2 400 ECC DIMMS are pretty expensive! (As they're pretty rare!)

Thanks for the info, as this may have caught me out! 😀

Guess it depends what you're looking to spend on memory - I'm seeing 16GB kits (4 x 4GB) DDR2-PC3200 ECC Registered dual rank (for Dell PowerEdge 2850) for approx $30 + shipping from the states.

PC Hoarder Patrol wrote on 2023-09-07, 12:40:

Irinikus wrote on 2023-09-07, 09:57:

2GB single rank DDR2 400 ECC DIMMS are pretty expensive! (As they're pretty rare!)

Thanks for the info, as this may have caught me out! 😀

Guess it depends what you're looking to spend on memory - I'm seeing 16GB kits (4 x 4GB) DDR2-PC3200 ECC Registered dual rank (for Dell PowerEdge 2850) for approx $30 + shipping from the states.

I've read that single rank DIMMS actually offer improved performance! So I would have to go with (8 x 2GB) DDR2-PC3200 ECC Registered single rank. (And this will be reasonably costly!)

It's not a massive difference, but it's a difference none the less and every % point of performance increase adds up! (The only question here is what the optimum number of RAM sticks installed in this system would be? Would it maybe be four, as that completes both channels?)

The difference may actually be more pronounced in a system such as this one?

acl wrote:

It was on my nForce4 SLI s939 system. I changed almost every part of the system on a period of 1y... to finally come to the conclusion that 4 ram sticks in dual channel was unstable, no matter what ram kit i was using.

Athlon64 works with unbuffered memory, that's why it's unstable with 4 dual rank sticks, unless you're lucky with silicon or lower your expectation for memory clock divider.

Irinikus wrote:

I've read that single rank DIMMS actually offer improved performance!

Doesn't work that way with a buffered RAM or just in general. Tech YES City probably didn't tweaked subtimings. In fact, it should be worse, because modern motherboards usually use daisy routing, when the second slot in channel is daisy-chained to the first one. That's why top-tier premium overclocking boards use only two memory slots.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-09-08, 11:31:

Doesn't work that way with a buffered RAM or just in general. Tech YES City probably didn't tweaked subtimings. In fact, it should be worse, because modern motherboards usually use daisy routing, when the second slot in channel is daisy-chained to the first one. That's why top-tier premium overclocking boards use only two memory slots.

Thanks for the info!

I am going to go for (8 x 2GB) DDR2-PC3200 ECC Registered single rank, as it will fill all the slots and make the system look more complete!

Just one more question on RAM: how much of an impact does a tRAS of 12 have over 10 with this CL3 RAM? (2GB 1Rx4 PC2 - 3200R - 333 - 12 - C3 vs 2GB 1Rx4 PC2 - 3200R - 333 - 10 - C3)

Obviously the smaller value is better, but how much better in reality?

I can pretty easily acquire 8 sticks of 2GB 1Rx4 PC2 - 3200R - 333 - 12 - C3 sticks in as single purchase, but 8 sticks of 2GB 1Rx4 PC2 - 3200R - 333 - 10 - C3 will be more of a costly and lengthy process to acquire! (Having to purchase from more than one seller with the associated shipping cost!)

I mean, honestly the biggest improvement would be to turn off ECC. Tightening ras/cas will also help, but imho you are firmly into the territory of diminishing returns. You might get an extra frame or two per second, but it wont change how the game plays.

I prefer stability.

luckybob wrote on 2023-09-08, 17:50:

I mean, honestly the biggest improvement would be to turn off ECC. Tightening ras/cas will also help, but imho you are firmly into the territory of diminishing returns. You might get an extra frame or two per second, but it wont change how the game plays.

I prefer stability.

I too favour stability!

I've run this experiment before on my Alienware 5500 Core2 Quad Extreme , by installing 8GB of the lowest latency DD2 800 I could get may hands on, only to see a 3% increase in performance over really crappy RAM!

So I suppose 2 clock cycles on the tRAS won't make any appreciable difference here!

I've just purchased eight of these SAMSUNG 2GB Memory Modules from a seller in the UK: (They'll take a while to arrive via the Snail Mail though! 🙁 )

They're on the Tyan compatibility list for this board, so they should be good!

yea. That's a good thing to practice with this area of server/workstation boards. Dont stray from the TML. (tested memory list) or RMM in Tyan's case.

luckybob wrote on 2023-09-10, 12:22:

yea. That's a good thing to practice with this area of server/workstation boards. Dont stray from the TML. (tested memory list) or RMM in Tyan's case.

Agreed! 😀

I know that this is pure insanity, but I'm now considering the TITAN XP as the card for this machine: (It will be bottlenecked to death by the NetBurst CPU's, but I'm really trying to bruit force things as much as I possibly can here!!!)

I may be wrong, but as far as I've seen, RTX -Type cards won't work with a NetBurst core and the latest version of Windows that officially runs on a system such as this one is Windows 8.0, as 8.1 gives you the finger when you try to install it! Letting you know exactly how inadequate your CPU is, as it does so! 😀 )

Therefore RTX cards make absolutely no sense in a machine such as this one, as you're stuck with DirectX 11!

Here are the TITAN XP's specs:

And here are the GTX 690 and GTX TITAN Z's specs again to compare:

The Thing that worries me about the TITAN Z is how many failed units I've seen, as I've been searching for one lately! (It definitely seems to have had a thermal problem! 🙁 )

Any inputs would be much appreciated! 😀

You can install anything up to RTX 3090 Ti on Windows 7. But support of anything beyond Maxwell family of chips on classic BIOS is shaky.

Therefore RTX cards make absolutely no sense in a machine such as this one, as you're stuck with DirectX 11!

Vulkan works fine with ray-tracing and all.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-09-17, 07:40:

You can install anything up to RTX 3090 Ti on Windows 7. But support of anything beyond Maxwell family of chips on classic BIOS is shaky.

Therefore RTX cards make absolutely no sense in a machine such as this one, as you're stuck with DirectX 11!

Vulkan works fine with ray-tracing and all.

I'm aware of the BIOS issue with anything beyond Maxwell, but I've at least seen footage of a TITAN XP running on a Pentium 4 Extreme: (Single CPU and this machine's a dual!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msTOPGNpnMA&t=402s

And here's a video showing a GTX 1080 running on a P4 670: (Single CPU and this machine's a dual!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGmF1ucjWNw&t=229s

And the GTX 1080's also Pascal:

It would be really nice if someone around here could test a Pascal GPU on a system such as this one, just to show that it would indeed work! (If worst comes to absolute worst, I do have a Maxwell version of the TITAN X already! 😀 )

Afraid the best I could manage (and it would take quite a bit of setting up atm) would be a GTX1070 ( https://www.msi.com/Graphics-Card/GeForce-GTX … r-8G-OC/Gallery ) on my Supermicro X6DH8-XG2, so a bit down on a GTX1080 / E7525 combo

edit - not sure I have W8 (8.1 yes)

PC Hoarder Patrol wrote on 2023-09-17, 08:52:

Afraid the best I could manage (and it would take quite a bit of setting up atm) would be a GTX1070 ( https://www.msi.com/Graphics-Card/GeForce-GTX … r-8G-OC/Gallery ) on my Supermicro X6DH8-XG2, so a bit down on a GTX1080 / E7525 combo

edit - not sure I have W8 (8.1 yes)

Thanks! 😀

It would be great it you could test it when you have time, no rush! 😀

Well, if Pascal could work, there's not much of a difference with Turing or Ampere. You can launch Quake II RTX for example or other ray-tracing modded games with Vulkan support.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-09-17, 17:34:

Well, if Pascal could work, there's not much of a difference with Turing or Ampere. You can launch Quake II RTX for example or other ray-tracing modded games with Vulkan support.

An RTX card such as the TITAN V would have been really, really nice, just to allow for raytracing on such a system, but after searching I've found no evidence of an RTX-Type card running in a NetBurst system! 🙁

These are the Extensions & Technologies that these 604-pin XEON's possess: (Maybe the RTX cards need extensions & technologies that these CPU's lack?)

MMX instructions
SSE / Streaming SIMD Extensions
SSE2 / Streaming SIMD Extensions 2
SSE3 / Streaming SIMD Extensions 3
HT / Hyper-Threading technology
EM64T / Extended Memory 64 technology / Intel 64

If Pascal is as far as I'll be able to push it, then the Quadro P6000 is the best card that can be slotted here: (It's slightly more powerful than the TITAN XP)