tincup wrote on 2023-10-15, 04:09:

Awesome project. I hope Indycar Racing 2/CART Racing is on the hit list!

It most certainly is.

sharangad wrote on 2023-10-15, 04:11:

tincup wrote on 2023-10-15, 04:09:

Awesome project. I hope Indycar Racing 2/CART Racing is on the hit list!

It most certainly is.

...very cool. Some years ago I build a retro rig just for the Rendition card. It had to move into storage for space reasons but of all the Rendition accellerated games ICR2 Rendition stood out the most for how it transformed the experience. And it's an ellusive quary. It never got the typical Glide/3dfx treatment that was common then. Too bad they never completed conversion of all the season tracks for HQ Rendition mode.

tincup wrote on 2023-10-15, 17:11:

sharangad wrote on 2023-10-15, 04:11:

tincup wrote on 2023-10-15, 04:09:

Awesome project. I hope Indycar Racing 2/CART Racing is on the hit list!

It most certainly is.

...very cool. Some years ago I build a retro rig just for the Rendition card. It had to move into storage for space reasons but of all the Rendition accellerated games ICR2 Rendition stood out the most for how it transformed the experience. And it's an ellusive quary. It never got the typical Glide/3dfx treatment that was common then. Too bad they never completed conversion of all the season tracks for HQ Rendition mode.

Hopefully I can get the game running soon. Bit tied up with rready bugs at the mo.

ICR2 is the most requested RReady game.

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of ICR2 Rendition edition?

Don't seem to be able to find any on ebay.

Would anyone be willing and able to sell me their copy?

sharangad wrote on 2023-10-17, 10:53:

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of ICR2 Rendition edition?

Don't seem to be able to find any on ebay.

Would anyone be willing and able to sell me their copy?

Check PM

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-10-17, 13:34:

sharangad wrote on 2023-10-17, 10:53:

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of ICR2 Rendition edition?

Don't seem to be able to find any on ebay.

Would anyone be willing and able to sell me their copy?

Check PM

Cheers. BEEN_Nath_58 and everyone else.

checked vquake.exe and found more:
r_antialias
r_surfacelookup
d_bilerp
d_sync - undocumented, idk what affected by this cvar
d_amip - undocumented, idk what affected by this cvar
d_wfreq
d_wamp
d_dither

The rest of the week will involve fixing bugs in RReady and V2k.RReady.

All I know about Speedy 3D support at the moment is that, the check for the Verité board occurs with INT 16 (0x10), function 0x15, subfunction 0x8D). (The three games I tried ICR2, vQuake and Whiplash all fail here.)

Software Interrupt 16 is the video ROM BIOS service. If the rest of Speedy 3D goes through INT calls, then it should be fairly straightforward to deal with.

Whiplash identifies this call as V_OpenVerite, in its error message. RRedline has V_CreateVerite and VL_OpenVerite , with the second call enabling extensions. I think V_OpenVerite is actually VL_OpenVerite.

Disassembling Speedy 3D game binaries is impossible, they appear to be using DOS4GW with dynamic overlays. Parts of the EXE are decompressed into RAM and executed as and when needed. They all do even simple utilities like RenUtil.exe so disassembling is going to be very very difficult.

At the moment I'm not sure what needs to be returned for V_OpenVerite. VL_OpenVerite returns a vhandle, which is a pointer to a block of RAM containing session info. RRedline supports multiple sessions per card even across multiple cards.

Does anyone know how to allocate memory using DOS4GW? My DOS coding was severely restricted to 16-bit real mode back in the 90s,. I need to return a vhandle allocated with Speedy 3D's (DOS4/GW's) internal memory manager. Stuff allocated outside of DOSbox-staging won't do.

Secondly, I have a question about DOSbox-Staging. This isn't the right place to ask. If I link against redline.lib and verite.lib from the SDK that should exempt RReady from needing a GPL2 license, I h0pe. Those two libs point to redline.dll and verite.dll in Windows\system on a real Win98 installation and are technically part of the OS. GPL2 has an exception for OS components, like Windows libraries. I could pipe things through via a named pipe to another process, like Glidos. DOSbox-staging wouldn't be using any RReady specific calls.

from what i found on vquake
i guess it should not touch redline in any meanings
and a lot verite appears here.

also from vquake.exe and spd3d.uc
three lines make me wonder is it something related to linux ?
"ELF"
"/dev/null"
"/dev/tty"

so i guess Whiplash right here

RaVeN-05 wrote on 2023-10-19, 09:27:

from what i found on vquake i guess it should not touch redline in any meanings and a lot verite appears here. […]
Show full quote

from what i found on vquake
i guess it should not touch redline in any meanings
and a lot verite appears here.

also from vquake.exe and spd3d.uc
three lines make me wonder is it something related to linux ?
"ELF"
"/dev/null"
"/dev/tty"

so i guess Whiplash right here

vquake has everything laid bare. Nice find! Not sure about the linux reference.

Descent 2:
There is Source code, might not have any verite code.
i found several mentions:
RENDER.C: "//$$ not needed for Verite, probably optional for ViRGE. pa_flush();"
POLY_ACC.C: "
//used in Rendition version, but not in S3 version
void pa_about_to_flip()
{
}
"
POLY_ACC.H: "void pa_about_to_flip(); // used in Rendition version, but not in S3 version"

The Verite Descent 2 patch contains
SPD3D.VOH (which i think is leftover from compile process of SPD3D.UC)
maybe this have some addresses of functions? too many hex codes here, readable only at start:
"
#SPD3D.VOH (C)Rendition 1995, 1996 Release PREALPHA.0.0 960321
#$Id: spd3d.voh,v 1.31 1996/04/26 04:44:41 walt Exp $
000001_10e00000
10e10000
"
the SPD3D.UC is not a key , i swapped this into other games and played around with many other versions of this file, it doesnot fix problems that v2200 have in (like purple tint in descent2) , but it changes something, sometimes performance drop or adds anther graphic anomalies.

D2VERITE.EXE is not dos4gw its "CauseWay DOS Extender v3.14 Copyright 1992-96 Michael Devore." which is open source , maybe it can be helpful?
Chances of usage exe packers low , i spot string "Unable toq*-sizÿ”
pgram meNDm%,ock§W±+ $Not<noIÍughvfGèDõQIcovdþÿUexception" and some other but they seems all belong to this extender. Maybe only extender is compressed?

i am extracted all strings - minus ones from descent2.exe and minus noise.

and i see there is lot more details , even several parts of vlib source code, so it might be helpful as hint, its still low pieces from various files of spd3d api source code .

Also i think there is CGL API which is assembled from pieces and it might be own API or it can be based on verite functionality. As CGL Api present on Creative 3d Blaster PCI an verite v1000 based board.
Fun with CGL (Creative Graphics Library) on 3D Blaster

Will examine all other games.

RaVeN-05 wrote on 2023-10-24, 09:08:

Descent 2: There is Source code, might not have any verite code. i found several mentions: RENDER.C: "//$$ not needed for Verite […]
Show full quote

Descent 2:
There is Source code, might not have any verite code.
i found several mentions:
RENDER.C: "//$$ not needed for Verite, probably optional for ViRGE. pa_flush();"
POLY_ACC.C: "
//used in Rendition version, but not in S3 version
void pa_about_to_flip()
{
}
"
POLY_ACC.H: "void pa_about_to_flip(); // used in Rendition version, but not in S3 version"

The Verite Descent 2 patch contains
SPD3D.VOH (which i think is leftover from compile process of SPD3D.UC)
maybe this have some addresses of functions? too many hex codes here, readable only at start:
"
#SPD3D.VOH (C)Rendition 1995, 1996 Release PREALPHA.0.0 960321
#$Id: spd3d.voh,v 1.31 1996/04/26 04:44:41 walt Exp $
000001_10e00000
10e10000
"
the SPD3D.UC is not a key , i swapped this into other games and played around with many other versions of this file, it doesnot fix problems that v2200 have in (like purple tint in descent2) , but it changes something, sometimes performance drop or adds anther graphic anomalies.

D2VERITE.EXE is not dos4gw its "CauseWay DOS Extender v3.14 Copyright 1992-96 Michael Devore." which is open source , maybe it can be helpful?
Chances of usage exe packers low , i spot string "Unable toq*-sizÿ”
pgram meNDm%,ock§W±+ $Not<noIÍughvfGèDõQIcovdþÿUexception" and some other but they seems all belong to this extender. Maybe only extender is compressed?

i am extracted all strings - minus ones from descent2.exe and minus noise.

and i see there is lot more details , even several parts of vlib source code, so it might be helpful as hint, its still low pieces from various files of spd3d api source code .

Also i think there is CGL API which is assembled from pieces and it might be own API or it can be based on verite functionality. As CGL Api present on Creative 3d Blaster PCI an verite v1000 based board.
Fun with CGL (Creative Graphics Library) on 3D Blaster

Will examine all other games.

Can try and decompress descent 2 if the extender source is there, manually bit by bit. . If vquake can strip the api bare for 90 % of the calls, we should be in the clear. Judging by rredline, it won't, sticking to a subset of calls.

Got vh2 r_nomurk working along with SODA screen grab menus. The golden golems going green (vh2) don't work yet. If I can't get it going this week, I'll do an interim release with what I have.

wow that cool, thank you very much!

Looked inside all spd3d exes :
Table
exe name, game name, keywords that appears in exe file or in txt files of extracted literals . ".c" means that there some API partial C code , only whiplash can report "V_OpenVerite" error

1Tomb.exe.txt          Tomb Raider                         Rendition,Verite,SPEEDY3D,spd3d,VLIB  ,V_RELEASE,  ,
2DIAGNOST.EXE.TXT      EuroFighter 2000                              Verite,SPEEDY3D,spd3d,VLIB  ,V_RELEASE,  ,
3_EF2000.EXE.TXT       EuroFighter 2000                    RENDITION,Verite,SPEEDY3D,spd3d,VLIB  ,V_RELEASE,  ,
4nr1999r.exe.TXT       NASCAR Racing 1999 Edition      RN1,Rendition,Verit ,SPEEDY3D,SPD3D,vlib  ,V_RELEASE,.c,
5demoNASREND.EXE.TXT   NASCAR Racing II                RN1,Rendition,Verit ,SPEEDY3D,SPD3D,vlib  ,V_RELEASE,.c,
6NASREND.EXE.TXT       NASCAR Racing II                RN1,Rendition,Verit ,SPEEDY3D,SPD3D,vlib  ,V_RELEASE,.c,
7REBMOON.EXE.TXT       Rebel Moon                                           SPEEDY3D,spd3d,VLIB  ,V_RELEASE,.c,
8RWHIP.EXE.TXT         Whiplash                            Rendition,Verite,SPEEDY3D spd3d VLIB   V_RELEASE .c,V_OpenVerite
9INDYCAR.EXE.TXT       IndyCar Racing II / CART Racing RN1,Rendition,Verit ,SPEEDY3D SPD3D        V_RELEASE
10Spverite.exe.TXT      Scorched Planet                     Rend     ,Verite SPEEDY3D spd3d VLIB   V_RELEASE
11
12Rebel Moon:
13rebmoon.exe -emil
14rebmoon.exe -vga
15rebmoon.exe -3DBLASTER
16rebmoon.exe -net
17rebmoon.exe -800
18rebmoon.exe -1024
19rebmoon.exe -demo
20
21cheats?
220REGEN
23TECUM
24tGUANO
25rMITHRA
26KITTY
27BERT
28MARIT
29fBRAINERD
30BARNEY
31uRAND
32uRR##
33uPLAY##
34WGROUND_WALLS
35
36IndyCar Racing II / CART Racing:
37Usage: indycar [switch]
38-gRN1      Use Rendition Verit
39 acceleration (default)
40-gRN1f     Use Verit
41 FIFO instead of DMA (slow)

Did really v1000 is can be useful to have for developments / test? Since v2100 and v2200 is glitchy in half of speedy3d games.
The half of games uses CauseWay dos extender / other uses dos/4gw

RaVeN-05 wrote on 2023-10-25, 09:51:

wow that cool, thank you very much! […]
Show full quote

wow that cool, thank you very much!

Looked inside all spd3d exes :
Table
exe name, game name, keywords that appears in exe file or in txt files of extracted literals . ".c" means that there some API partial C code , only whiplash can report "V_OpenVerite" error

Copy code to clipboard

1Tomb.exe.txt          Tomb Raider                         Rendition,Verite,SPEEDY3D,spd3d,VLIB  ,V_RELEASE,  ,
2DIAGNOST.EXE.TXT      EuroFighter 2000                              Verite,SPEEDY3D,spd3d,VLIB  ,V_RELEASE,  ,
3_EF2000.EXE.TXT       EuroFighter 2000                    RENDITION,Verite,SPEEDY3D,spd3d,VLIB  ,V_RELEASE,  ,
4nr1999r.exe.TXT       NASCAR Racing 1999 Edition      RN1,Rendition,Verit ,SPEEDY3D,SPD3D,vlib  ,V_RELEASE,.c,
5demoNASREND.EXE.TXT   NASCAR Racing II                RN1,Rendition,Verit ,SPEEDY3D,SPD3D,vlib  ,V_RELEASE,.c,
6NASREND.EXE.TXT       NASCAR Racing II                RN1,Rendition,Verit ,SPEEDY3D,SPD3D,vlib  ,V_RELEASE,.c,
7REBMOON.EXE.TXT       Rebel Moon                                           SPEEDY3D,spd3d,VLIB  ,V_RELEASE,.c,
8RWHIP.EXE.TXT         Whiplash                            Rendition,Verite,SPEEDY3D spd3d VLIB   V_RELEASE .c,V_OpenVerite
9INDYCAR.EXE.TXT       IndyCar Racing II / CART Racing RN1,Rendition,Verit ,SPEEDY3D SPD3D        V_RELEASE
10Spverite.exe.TXT      Scorched Planet                     Rend     ,Verite SPEEDY3D spd3d VLIB   V_RELEASE
11
12Rebel Moon:
13rebmoon.exe -emil
14rebmoon.exe -vga
15rebmoon.exe -3DBLASTER
16rebmoon.exe -net
17rebmoon.exe -800
18rebmoon.exe -1024
19rebmoon.exe -demo
20
21cheats?
220REGEN
23TECUM
24tGUANO
25rMITHRA
26KITTY
27BERT
28MARIT
29fBRAINERD
30BARNEY
31uRAND
32uRR##
33uPLAY##
34WGROUND_WALLS
35
36IndyCar Racing II / CART Racing:
37Usage: indycar [switch]
38-gRN1      Use Rendition Verit
39 acceleration (default)
40-gRN1f     Use Verit
41 FIFO instead of DMA (slow)

Did really v1000 is can be useful to have for developments / test? Since v2100 and v2200 is glitchy in half of speedy3d games.
The half of games uses CauseWay dos extender / other uses dos/4gw

We don't need to decompile all the games, just enough to know what the calls are and how parameters are passed. Having said that, most rredline games use different sets of calls. In fact no two games run the same way not even vquake2 and vhexen2. Some similarities are there., but the vast majority of calls are different.

Hold off on this for now. Still need to deal with rready. If you could dig up the source for the dos extender, the one that actually has source, it would be useful.

ok understand.
CauseWay source is here https://github.com/amindlost/cw
and historic here https://web.archive.org/web/20060617032954/ht … ource/cw349.zip

There is dos32a which can replace dos/4gw and it opensourced https://web.archive.org/web/20060111064007/ht … t/index_en.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20071005111335fw_ … t/download.html

Even some kind of debugger here https://web.archive.org/web/20071005111201fw_ … nt/screens.html

That is all, i know nothing more. For that moment

RaVeN-05 wrote on 2023-10-25, 11:57:

ok understand. CauseWay source is here https://github.com/amindlost/cw and historic here https://web.archive.org/web/2006061703 […]
Show full quote

ok understand.
CauseWay source is here https://github.com/amindlost/cw
and historic here https://web.archive.org/web/20060617032954/ht … ource/cw349.zip

There is dos32a which can replace dos/4gw and it opensourced https://web.archive.org/web/20060111064007/ht … t/index_en.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20071005111335fw_ … t/download.html

Even some kind of debugger here https://web.archive.org/web/20071005111201fw_ … nt/screens.html

That is all, i know nothing more. For that moment

Could you also list the website where the Mirage demo was originally found? Might help if I put in some time to look for it?

First time i saw it here Re: Rendition Verite Thread
The original site http://bacchus.com/

RaVeN-05 wrote on 2023-10-25, 13:39:

First time i saw it here Re: Rendition Verite Thread
The original site http://bacchus.com/

Screenshots are still on the site:

http://www.bacchus.com/mirage/gallery-2.html
http://www.bacchus.com/mirage/

Maybe the demo's still there somewhere.

The wayback machine's link to a Microsoft asp server side page until 2001 and then a cgi-bin link before disappearing. It's not cached because those are dynamic server pages.

Quake 2 sometimes crashes rarely , i think due to rare black texture appearances'.
Hexen 2 crashes same way too, but i think you already fixed it

RaVeN-05 wrote on 2023-10-25, 16:52:

Quake 2 sometimes crashes rarely , i think due to rare black texture appearances'.
Hexen 2 crashes same way too, but i think you already fixed it

Should be fixed in the next release, hopefully.

Emailing info@bacchus.com got me this :

Sorry, we no longer have that demo.

Barring showstopper bugs I'll release the alpha today and push out the update to the store. The store release might take a while to be certified and released.