VOGONS


Reply 200 of 1559, by sharangad

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https://1drv.ms/u/s!As-dKk-N73dSllhtj9OqZsFHfQ9Q?e=suzg7x
MD5: 2a653f87efe287fe807a76827161d47a

This should produce one or more crash dump logs (with extension .dmp). If you could share the dump files after reproducing the crash it would help. At the moment I'm flying blind because there's no indication of a crash.

Developer of RReady - Rendition Verité Wrapper.
https://www.youtube.com/@sharangadayananda

Reply 201 of 1559, by RaVeN-05

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tested ncube & nfinal , yes they are different
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di7fiq8ElxA&a … WhiteMagicRaven

particulary here
https://youtu.be/6p4-39uwZbs?si=wDZEcVXj-gAoZEJz&t=93
https://youtu.be/di7fiq8ElxA?si=Xgb-yu89AvcDUuGC&t=308

and
https://youtu.be/lFGuGm5UEj8?si=pcdcwhvaq5cTsKna&t=82
https://youtu.be/di7fiq8ElxA?si=CVp73VVWYCWzF7Lp&t=83

https://www.youtube.com/user/whitemagicraven
https://go.twitch.tv/whitemagicraventv

Reply 202 of 1559, by RaVeN-05

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Spoiler

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: VH2.exe
Application Version: 0.0.0.0
Application Timestamp: 346a08f1
Fault Module Name: redline.dll
Fault Module Version: 1.0.1.47
Fault Module Timestamp: 653bcb31
Exception Code: c00000fd
Exception Offset: 00004495
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: cfe3
Additional Information 2: cfe37e674d3deb9e77ad28f5ee0233ca
Additional Information 3: bb88
Additional Information 4: bb88537c801ea5df8225d8a738380be5

Read our privacy statement online:
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=104288&clcid=0x0409

If the online privacy statement is not available, please read our privacy statement offline:
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  • Filename
    Hexen II.7z
    File size
    71.49 KiB
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    37 downloads
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    dumps
    File license
    Public domain
  • Filename
    RReadyLog.zip
    File size
    227.1 KiB
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    38 downloads
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    logs
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    Public domain

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Reply 203 of 1559, by sharangad

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RaVeN-05 wrote on 2023-10-27, 15:35:
tested ncube & nfinal , yes they are different https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di7fiq8ElxA&a … WhiteMagicRaven […]
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tested ncube & nfinal , yes they are different
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di7fiq8ElxA&a … WhiteMagicRaven

particulary here
https://youtu.be/6p4-39uwZbs?si=wDZEcVXj-gAoZEJz&t=93
https://youtu.be/di7fiq8ElxA?si=Xgb-yu89AvcDUuGC&t=308

and
https://youtu.be/lFGuGm5UEj8?si=pcdcwhvaq5cTsKna&t=82
https://youtu.be/di7fiq8ElxA?si=CVp73VVWYCWzF7Lp&t=83

Thanks dude.

Developer of RReady - Rendition Verité Wrapper.
https://www.youtube.com/@sharangadayananda

Reply 204 of 1559, by sharangad

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Try this:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!As-dKk-N73dSllkW9VipxVHi0OzT?e=a0h2Qv
MD5: 594c504ff1b01e17b04e988a1a79da12

RReady appears to be running out of RAM or suffering from fragmentation. I've increase the custom heap for RRedline API memory allocation to 256 MB from 128 MB for vHexen II (and nothing else). RReady has a much higher memory footprint than an acutal Verité board unfortunately.

If it crashes it should be somewhere else. I didn't increase the heap size for everything because some apps don't like it very much. If I do increate it everywhere, I'll have to test it to death.

A custom heap allows me to allocate memory like in Win98. But the problem is it's smaller than available RAM. Hexen 2 will not run on modern systems without a custom heap, either that or with Win98 compatibility which doesn't work on a lot of systems anymore (audio driver crash).

Last edited by sharangad on 2023-10-28, 05:20. Edited 1 time in total.

Developer of RReady - Rendition Verité Wrapper.
https://www.youtube.com/@sharangadayananda

Reply 205 of 1559, by sharangad

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RaVeN-05 wrote on 2023-10-27, 15:35:
tested ncube & nfinal , yes they are different https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di7fiq8ElxA&a … WhiteMagicRaven […]
Show full quote

tested ncube & nfinal , yes they are different
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di7fiq8ElxA&a … WhiteMagicRaven

particulary here
https://youtu.be/6p4-39uwZbs?si=wDZEcVXj-gAoZEJz&t=93
https://youtu.be/di7fiq8ElxA?si=Xgb-yu89AvcDUuGC&t=308

and
https://youtu.be/lFGuGm5UEj8?si=pcdcwhvaq5cTsKna&t=82
https://youtu.be/di7fiq8ElxA?si=CVp73VVWYCWzF7Lp&t=83

I don't get the underlining under ncubed either. Could it be we have different versions of the same binary?

Developer of RReady - Rendition Verité Wrapper.
https://www.youtube.com/@sharangadayananda

Reply 206 of 1559, by RaVeN-05

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Good News ) HeXen II no crashes anymore.

"I don't get the underlining under ncubed either" ignore it this is glitch appeared once. The differences in cube itself, on original hardware here is too many quadratic outlines while in rready emptiness here.
videos by time code
https://youtu.be/6p4-39uwZbs?si=wDZEcVXj-gAoZEJz&t=93
https://youtu.be/di7fiq8ElxA?si=Xgb-yu89AvcDUuGC&t=308

HeXen II visual anomalies remains to be fixed : in video running on hardware and than on rready
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmhjDUMwOFM

in case you need those testing demos , put in data1 folder and in console playdemo rr1 etc, i guess you already know all that )

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  • Filename
    data1.7z
    File size
    710.5 KiB
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    hexen 2 testing demos
    File license
    Public domain

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Reply 207 of 1559, by sharangad

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RaVeN-05 wrote on 2023-10-28, 08:51:
Good News ) HeXen II no crashes anymore. […]
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Good News ) HeXen II no crashes anymore.

"I don't get the underlining under ncubed either" ignore it this is glitch appeared once. The differences in cube itself, on original hardware here is too many quadratic outlines while in rready emptiness here.
videos by time code
https://youtu.be/6p4-39uwZbs?si=wDZEcVXj-gAoZEJz&t=93
https://youtu.be/di7fiq8ElxA?si=Xgb-yu89AvcDUuGC&t=308

HeXen II visual anomalies remains to be fixed : in video running on hardware and than on rready
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmhjDUMwOFM

in case you need those testing demos , put in data1 folder and in console playdemo rr1 etc, i guess you already know all that )

Thanks dude. It's good that it doesn't crash anymore. Hexen II bugs it is then. The demos will be very useful.

Developer of RReady - Rendition Verité Wrapper.
https://www.youtube.com/@sharangadayananda

Reply 208 of 1559, by RaVeN-05

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also you right AA currently better on original hardware =(
https://youtu.be/On8D8cqqwoo
i also created couple of screenshots directly writted by games Quake, Quake2 , Hexen II (vh2 unfortunatelly buggy at screenshots)
they all antialiased, and some comparison shots of same exact scene with and without AA. in game message "NO!" means AA turned off.

in closer , it looks like some kind of post processing , where accurate per-pixel gradients appear based on nearest neighborhoods ? and it uses some factor to blend by data from "how close pixel should be?" hard to explain. Only guess , seems proprietary AA and its miracle it works very fast, unbelievable speed for 1997, but not looks like what other AA techniques does .

Thank you very much! =)

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  • Filename
    screenshots.7z
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    1.32 MiB
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    vQuake II + vHeXen II shots
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    Public domain
  • Filename
    Quake.7z
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    4.56 MiB
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    37 downloads
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    vQuake shots
    File license
    Public domain
Last edited by RaVeN-05 on 2023-10-28, 10:37. Edited 1 time in total.

https://www.youtube.com/user/whitemagicraven
https://go.twitch.tv/whitemagicraventv

Reply 209 of 1559, by sharangad

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I never fully deciphered the RRedline Quake specific AA call. Only the two pairs of coordinates, which describe a line and some sort of blending factor. There were other values there. I even started really hard at Rendition's Quake specific AA patent, but couldn't correlate the AA data to that other than the fact that lines were being drawn.

I shall put the effort in. Moving on to vQuake 1 there's one more undocumented Quake specific call VL_QLIGHT. Quake 2/Hexen 2 don't appear to use this. Maybe Hexen 2 does and I'm missing it. VL_QSpan, used for world/background rendering took me 3 months to figure out. In the end it turned out to be something ridiculously simple. Not completely simple, but too simple for the sort things I was trying.

How would Vogons like me to fix the issues? AA first, hexen 2 second?

I have no idea how long fixing these things will take. But I'm in for the long haul.

I think I'll go with the antialiasing. Underwater scenes in vh2 look horrible without AA.

Developer of RReady - Rendition Verité Wrapper.
https://www.youtube.com/@sharangadayananda

Reply 210 of 1559, by RaVeN-05

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oh my god . hard really hard work.

i remember IndyCar Racing II can turn on /off antialiasing by alt+a while in game.
some sdk and race to redline also do AA
Q1,Q2,H2 too we all know.

Feel free to ask me.
What i need to try to do? Test something?

P.S. Edit

AA + low resolution = outstanding effect , which actually defect , in some way it weird , in another its beautiful, happens on both v2100 and v2200, can someone confirm how it looks on v1000?

https://youtu.be/krY2t9Xz1Jw

Last edited by RaVeN-05 on 2023-10-28, 13:03. Edited 1 time in total.

https://www.youtube.com/user/whitemagicraven
https://go.twitch.tv/whitemagicraventv

Reply 211 of 1559, by sharangad

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RaVeN-05 wrote on 2023-10-28, 11:13:
oh my god . hard really hard work. […]
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oh my god . hard really hard work.

i remember IndyCar Racing II can turn on /off antialiasing by alt+a while in game.
some sdk and race to redline also do AA
Q1,Q2,H2 too we all know.

Feel free to ask me.
What i need to try to do? Test something?

No tests for the moment. A lot of the hexen II texture corruption I've figured out. The RRedline demos do AA correctly. They draw AA lines. There's a regular documented call which is correctly implemented. ncubed and nfinal use them to draw coloured lines around the edges of the spinnig cubes. I just redirect them to the appropriate OpenGL call both for lines and edges.

Quake engine games use a proprietary call called:
V_FIFO_QAAZEDGE ( at least that's the id in the command buffer). I don't know if there's an API call for it. The data just gets added to the command buffer. I read and partially interpret the data. I know they're lines and I know where the lines begin and end. The rest is mostly a mystery. I'll fix that once I fix the texture corruption issues.

The texture corruption issues are caused by a format conversion. Quake 2's blood particles are a solid texture which ends up being reinterpreted as an alpha texture (which looks like a circle made up of 1s and the transparent backround of 0s). This is multiplied by a colour to convert the alpha (1,1,1, a) to (r, g, b, a) making circles of different colours. WIthout particle aa, Quake 2 (and hexen 2) use an RRedline call to draw square particles.

The issue with the textures is it's converting to a format I've never tested the conversion before for. On actual hardware it's just a format register. Change that and the card reinterpretes the texture data while processing. With RReady, there's an uploaded RGBA texture. This needs to be converted to a format that's never been tested before.

No testing for now. I need to fix the bugs. It'll probably be a few days before you I post here again.

[EDIT] Oh and the dragon appears to be missing polygons. The texture over there doesn't have transparency so that's my best guess at the moment.

Developer of RReady - Rendition Verité Wrapper.
https://www.youtube.com/@sharangadayananda

Reply 212 of 1559, by filipetolhuizen

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I have to say this seems promising, but sadly I have no Rendition cards to test it. Nevertheless, I would like to ask if a Rendition wrapper for those who have other cards could be expected?

Reply 213 of 1559, by BEEN_Nath_58

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filipetolhuizen wrote on 2023-10-28, 16:28:

I have to say this seems promising, but sadly I have no Rendition cards to test it. Nevertheless, I would like to ask if a Rendition wrapper for those who have other cards could be expected?

What do you mean by "other cards"?

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 214 of 1559, by filipetolhuizen

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BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-10-28, 16:33:
filipetolhuizen wrote on 2023-10-28, 16:28:

I have to say this seems promising, but sadly I have no Rendition cards to test it. Nevertheless, I would like to ask if a Rendition wrapper for those who have other cards could be expected?

What do you mean by "other cards"?

Others than Rendition (I believe only nVidia and AMD are our choices for the daily PC, now).

Reply 215 of 1559, by sharangad

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filipetolhuizen wrote on 2023-10-28, 17:39:
BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-10-28, 16:33:
filipetolhuizen wrote on 2023-10-28, 16:28:

I have to say this seems promising, but sadly I have no Rendition cards to test it. Nevertheless, I would like to ask if a Rendition wrapper for those who have other cards could be expected?

What do you mean by "other cards"?

Others than Rendition (I believe only nVidia and AMD are our choices for the daily PC, now).

RReady listed on the first page will run Rendition apps on nvidia and amd gpus., though at the moment only Windows Rendition apps.

Developer of RReady - Rendition Verité Wrapper.
https://www.youtube.com/@sharangadayananda

Reply 216 of 1559, by BEEN_Nath_58

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filipetolhuizen wrote on 2023-10-28, 17:39:
BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-10-28, 16:33:
filipetolhuizen wrote on 2023-10-28, 16:28:

I have to say this seems promising, but sadly I have no Rendition cards to test it. Nevertheless, I would like to ask if a Rendition wrapper for those who have other cards could be expected?

What do you mean by "other cards"?

Others than Rendition (I believe only nVidia and AMD are our choices for the daily PC, now).

nVidia, AMD and Intel. It is already out and is getting updated to fix bugs.

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 217 of 1559, by sharangad

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RaVeN-05 wrote on 2023-10-28, 11:13:

Feel free to ask me.
What i need to try to do? Test something?

Here's something to test (vHexen II fix, not fully tested):

https://1drv.ms/u/s!As-dKk-N73dSllpTCzMQ_VX5T9Ju?e=a15SJ0
MD5: cf0c83d786f04f0e957c35c5c9c72eb9

The multicoloured textures should be working properly now in glorious RGBA4444.

This was caused by a render to texture issue. Render to texture as used by RReady is RGBA32, so the pixel format for binary reinterpretation of texel data didn't work because reading back a 32 bit RGBA value as an RGBA444 pel didn't produce the exact result. Render to texture only supports a limited number of formats. I didn't bother testing which ones worked. Instead I added a whole other CPU based codepath to render to virtual rendition VRAM directly as well as the usual render to texture (which would work if used directly without translation). This only affects VL_Lookup, a function used by the Quakes/Hexen II. v1k_surfacelookup exclusively uses this function. Quake 2 didn't need this at all, but I enabled it for everything that needs VL_Lookup, just in case. Now VL_Lookup is even slower.

The textures should work correctly now though and a round of optimisation later on wil be needed.

[EDIT] The dragon/demon appears to be a chroma keying issue. The colour black is being set to be filtered out so the missing polygons are coloured black in demos rr1 and rr3. That shouldn't be set. I have no idea why I'm getting this sequence, but it doesn't look like a mistake on the part of the game or a bug in RReady. And RReady is rendering it correctly. But the on actual hardware it renders correctly, so what's going on here?

Developer of RReady - Rendition Verité Wrapper.
https://www.youtube.com/@sharangadayananda

Reply 218 of 1559, by RaVeN-05

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Tested, cool, those palette corrupted textures fixed, even bronze golem now have green laser, still not become green fully, but i see it changes palette and become little brighter, with one corrupted color (gray) so i guess its some kind of share palette extension might be here or related, like OpenGL legacy had GL_EXT_paletted_texture and GL_EXT_shared_texture_palette. ( https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_ … texture_support )

"so what's going on here?" i can only guess , i once saw somewhere not even remember where, one game had 256 (8-bit) palette with two black colors at various indexes (those two match each other 0,0,0 = 0,0,0)
one black color used as transparency other as just black color, maybe here same case?

ok now, demos rr1 and rr3 only actual , showing transparency and particles , particles already work great in Quake2 so maybe you can backport to vh2, vh2 particles sometimes discard part of particle being drawn under, like alpha blending objects discard to draw something behind them. When you die in lava camera stuck , while on original HW you will drown , move to ground.

tested Quake2 in curiosity how in lava death looks like here, and it crashes game, in console "map q2dm3". (will check in real HW if its same goes here)

played around with AA , i set all antialiasing to max in nVidia control panel for quake2.exe and for vh2.exe and it works for actual resolution (800x600 in game) without any enforcements by rready launcher.
this AA applies on world and models.
if i enforce resolution to higher, AA still works for models, but not for world.
this AA have no effect underwater , no matter of resolution .

i wanted to apply some AA shader based techniques , the ReShade can do postprocessing, but after installation reshade into any rendition verite game it corrupt everything, except 2d elements on screen, huds, game menu etc. Except vh2.exe, here it works.

Thinking of AA, implementing AA like on real hardware valuable for underwater and world, how it will act on scaling while resolution enforcement will be set in rready's launcher i can't imagine.
Currently world scaled as point sampled, if its possible to set linear filtering for scaling world would be little better, it will make very little blur and prevent to spot that game actually a low resolution game.
for particles already everything excellent here (except vh2 case).
for models i think using modern AA provided by video card is best option as modern AA is more advanced than way back on original hw. (only rendition AA approach is useful while underwater.)
applying AA data sent by app for models (while resolution enforcement used) guess is bad idea , because data meant to be for resolution that used in game and not on rlauncher , the models have more advanced geometry on higher resolution and renditions AA data at low resolution, they will not match for each other , not valid information about edges from app, i guess.

Maybe its possible to guess how renditions AA works by making screenshot on real hardware v1k_drawflat 1 with AA and Without. Photoshop can use difference in layer blending. By same exact place in rready maybe possible intercept AA data (data about edges) and having all that start guessing how it all works.

AA at low res on real hw can produce funny artifacts shown here https://youtu.be/krY2t9Xz1Jw

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Reply 219 of 1559, by sharangad

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Everything except Green Gola fixed (untested against other apps, use at your peril):

https://1drv.ms/u/s!As-dKk-N73dSllsqNqDe_IwSScoi?e=OIMXCj
MD5: a935cd0618ab4b85381850453ba4cb74

You're right, the water particles were caused by z-buffering. I added a special case for vh2 (by disabling depth writes. The particles are the last things drawn and they're transparent, so not updating z won't be a problem (hopefully). Depth testing is still there so they won't show through walls).

That'll be the last build of the day. Tomorrow, the green golem and hopfully will move onto deciphering the special Quake AA. I didn't put much time in, because I had a lot more to do. Windows is mostly done, barring bugs so I can get back to AA. It won't be impossible to decipher it, it'll just take some time.

Developer of RReady - Rendition Verité Wrapper.
https://www.youtube.com/@sharangadayananda