With the current dimensions, this wouldnt fit many ordinary ATX cases even with microATX boards. If you use something like an AIO, r the HDD-s are screwed into the bottom of the case, or you have another card in the bottom with e.g a riser cable, this would not fit and taking a look at it, Im not an expert but I see a lot of empty spaces on the PCB. Making a bit longer instead of this wide is a no-no?

nakos1212 wrote on 2024-01-03, 14:05:

With the current dimensions, this wouldnt fit many ordinary ATX cases even with microATX boards. If you use something like an AIO, r the HDD-s are screwed into the bottom of the case, or you have another card in the bottom with e.g a riser cable, this would not fit and taking a look at it, Im not an expert but I see a lot of empty spaces on the PCB. Making a bit longer instead of this wide is a no-no?

Since v0.2 the board's dimension has been adjusted to make it possible to install alongside a microATX board. Use the screw holes marked "micro ATX".

The problem still persist that it isn't dual slot. For example, in my case there is no possibility to fit something with 3 slots width under the M/B in my specific case and Id think it would make it more compatible generally if its possible. ISA sound cards ted to be very long anyway.

nakos1212 wrote on 2024-01-03, 14:36:

The problem still persist that it isn't dual slot. For example, in my case there is no possibility to fit something with 3 slots width under the M/B in my specific case and Id think it would make it more compatible generally if its possible. ISA sound cards ted to be very long anyway.

Hmmm... so you intend to use 2 or more ISA devices?

What kind of cards do you intend to use? For sound cards, the only few long cards I know about are Creative Sound Blaster cards (usually SB16), and I think Gravis Ultrasound family also.

Sound cards using other vendors' chips (like ESS, Yamaha, and so on) usually aren't long. It depends on the sound chip. The more integrated, the smaller the PCB would be.

I intend to have an X99M Killer with a pcie->dual pci riser for 2 PCI cards; mobo occupies 4 slots, riser occupies 2 slots, I have only two left in a 8 slots case. My case is a Sliger CX3150A.
I have an Orpheus II and a GUS Classic that I would try, but not simultaneously.

LSS10999 wrote on 2024-01-03, 13:31:

If Boost demo expects IRQ5 you may consider assigning LPT1 to 278h/IRQ5 to see if it makes a difference.

I don't think it's hardcoded to IRQ 5 but it probably use similar auto-detection as SBPro Test and so it give up when IRQ auto-detection failed. Some other demos using MIDAS allows to run setup menu before start where you can select values manually, I'll have to check later...

LSS10999 wrote on 2024-01-03, 13:31:

Also, make sure you configured BLASTER environment variable correctly. Note that UNISOUND also uses BLASTER to configure the sound card, and it accepts some new parameters for configuring extra features. You can refer to UNISOUND's manual for details.

Yes I updated BLASTER to IRQ7. SBPro Test can also run in manual mode but even when manually selected the IRQ 7 it didn't catch on.
Do you also use shared IRQ with LPT or do you have IRQ exclusive only for soundcard? Any idea how to alter the PCI PnP mechanism to reserve some legacy IRQ? It's probably done in early phase after power up, far before LPC bridge is initialized so PnP enumerator has no chance to see PnP devices on ISA bus. For me it's just a blackbox, I never get deep in how PnP enumeration works...

LSS10999 wrote on 2024-01-03, 13:31:

I was referring to A00-AFF range. ISA PnP uses A79 as WRITE_DATA so it's kind of needed when you're initializing the ISA PnP card.

But in my case I replaced the A00-AFF (SAPPHISA default ) by 660 and it works. So any program could use A00-AFF when I disabled it before running ESSCFG, even ESSCFG itself.

BTW my LPC2ISA PCB dimensions are 55 x 139mm. I think I could place one ISA card at bottom of my miditower case if PCI cards are not too high, currently just testing on free laying around setup 😀 My primary PC MB is not yet modified for LDRQ# but it should be very similar to this test MB, they differs only by added USB 3.0 xHCI onboard...

Did you find out how TPU interfere with LPC bridge? I think you wrote that you tried both LPC bridge IO ranges so it couldn't be IO conflict. Even if so I think at least superIO chips use some magic byte to valid access so maybe even 2 different superIO may not interfere at same IO address, not sure... If it's possible can you detach the TPU LPC off the bus (lifting up a pin or so)?

RayeR wrote on 2024-01-03, 17:29:

Do you also use shared IRQ with LPT or do you have IRQ exclusive only for soundcard? Any idea how to alter the PCI PnP mechanism to reserve some legacy IRQ? It's probably done in early phase after power up, far before LPC bridge is initialized so PnP enumerator has no chance to see PnP devices on ISA bus. For me it's just a blackbox, I never get deep in how PnP enumeration works...

I don't think new motherboards offer such option to control IRQ assignments in BIOS. All IRQs are free to be claimed by any PCI device.

From my experience ISA PnP is in most cases the same as legacy ISA if you need the card on a specific IRQ and/or DMA -- you need to reserve the resources in BIOS first so others would not try to claim (no guarantee this will work on every chipset, however).

Such use case is only important for using sound cards in DOS but not in other use cases (Windows, for example). Just that depending on hardware design the card may only be able to choose specific IRQs and will fail to initialize if all IRQs it could use are claimed by others.

RayeR wrote on 2024-01-03, 17:29:

But in my case I replaced the A00-AFF (SAPPHISA default ) by 660 and it works. So any program could use A00-AFF when I disabled it before running ESSCFG, even ESSCFG itself.

Maybe one could always interact with a card's control port if known, and doesn't really have to use the 279/A79 ports (ISA PnP).

RayeR wrote on 2024-01-03, 17:29:

Did you find out how TPU interfere with LPC bridge? I think you wrote that you tried both LPC bridge IO ranges so it couldn't be IO conflict. Even if so I think at least superIO chips use some magic byte to valid access so maybe even 2 different superIO may not interfere at same IO address, not sure... If it's possible can you detach the TPU LPC off the bus (lifting up a pin or so)?

I'm not sure. On that board (with TPU), the Fintek bridge is detected, but most of the configuration registers return FF instead of the expected default.

What those TPU chips really control is unclear, and it's not trivial to detach them from the bus. I would have to locate and detach every LPC pin (LAD0-LAD3, LFRAME#, etc.). I can't find much info about the TPU chip itself, however...

I tried to set LPT as LPT2 with IRQ5. I wonder why but then sound doesn't work at all. After running SAPPHISA with defaults neither HWINFO nor ESSCFG nor Unisound can detect the soundcard via PnP. HWINFO shows that IRQ5 is used by LPT only.

I know that I can't expect modern MB IRQ legacy options in SETUP but I though if possible to alter it by some PCI registers programming or something like that...

So it seems the only way is to use shared IRQ7 with enabled LPT1.
I found that the Boost demo has "-m" command line option to run manual Midas config. After I manually set IRQ7 I got sound 😀
But it's not the case of Zdoom for DOS, I cannot find such option, only the -nosound
I would need some way to unregister the LPT IRQ after boot - superIO? PIC/APIC?

how about "SwapIRQ TSR" Re: PicoGUS: ISA sound card emulator with Raspberry Pi Pico (Gravis Ultrasound, AdLib, MPU-401, Tandy, CMS)

RayeR wrote on 2024-01-04, 04:38:

I tried to set LPT as LPT2 with IRQ5. I wonder why but then sound doesn't work at all. After running SAPPHISA with defaults neit […]
Show full quote

I tried to set LPT as LPT2 with IRQ5. I wonder why but then sound doesn't work at all. After running SAPPHISA with defaults neither HWINFO nor ESSCFG nor Unisound can detect the soundcard via PnP. HWINFO shows that IRQ5 is used by LPT only.

I know that I can't expect modern MB IRQ legacy options in SETUP but I though if possible to alter it by some PCI registers programming or something like that...

So it seems the only way is to use shared IRQ7 with enabled LPT1.
I found that the Boost demo has "-m" command line option to run manual Midas config. After I manually set IRQ7 I got sound 😀
But it's not the case of Zdoom for DOS, I cannot find such option, only the -nosound
I would need some way to unregister the LPT IRQ after boot - superIO? PIC/APIC?

Okay... looks like I'm partially wrong about the IRQ sharing thing.

So it was only IRQ7 that could be shared between LPT1 and sound cards, and sound cards eventually moved to IRQ5 to avoid having to share with printer port altogether.

But in your board's case both IRQ5 and 7 are being claimed by something else and letting printer port taking IRQ7 (which would then be shared by sound card) somehow becomes a viable option.

rasz_pl wrote on 2024-01-04, 05:12:

how about "SwapIRQ TSR" Re: PicoGUS: ISA sound card emulator with Raspberry Pi Pico (Gravis Ultrasound, AdLib, MPU-401, Tandy, CMS)

Maybe, any idea how it works? Seems to be too old that it could do anything with APIC/PCI/... maybe it just swap vectors in IVT?

BTW the LPT port has it's own PnP node shown in HWinfo.

@RayeR, Please do think about making a longer, but less wide adapter if its physically possible. It would greatly widen up compatibility.

>nakos1212
Probably not, not now...
When placing the bridge chip behind the ISA slot it would make routing harder.
I plan to mount the adapter this way at bottom side of case with ISA card just close along to the left case side. And I drill some hole for jack at back side. This is just for example some common minitower (not one I want to use) and there's enough space so I don't see any problem...

I did some further experiments with IRQ:

* I looked at INT 0F (IRQ7) vector in IVT and found that it is still the same regardless LPT is enabled or disabled. It point at 0070:0465 (DOS, IRET) that is probably some DOS default printer handler. When I overwrite the address to 0:0 then SBPro Test freezed at IRQ autodetection so there's some dependency...
I tried SWAPIRQ and it directed INT 0F to it's own handler but also didn't help.

* I looked at BDA (BIOS data area) where are 2 values related to LPT:
BDA 0040:0008 - 378h LPT1 address
0040:0011 - 42h bit7:6 - printer ports number = 1
and when LPT is disabled:
BDA 0040:0008 - 0 LPT1 address
0040:0011 - 02h bit7:6 - printers port number = 0
I tried to zero this values but it has not any effect on IRQ detection, just the HWiNFO didn't show LPT in peripherals list (it still displayed active IRQ 7 in IRQ list)

* I tried to run intel ICU utility to get some info about ESCD but it failed. Resp. when I put DWCFGMG.SYS driver in CONFIG.SYS then it filled some data to C:\ESCD.RF file but after I run ICU.EXE I just got this error and it exit. But I think the old SBPro Test could run also on 386 and it's not ESCD/PnP aware...

* I also played with different LPT modes in SETUP (SPP/EPP/ECP/EPP+ECP and also there's option with IO address 3BCh/IRQ7) and sometimes it happened that SBPro Test successfully detected the IRQ 7 but the behavior was inconsistent and I'm not able to repeat it. I also running HWiNFO and other utils, maybe some of them changed something...

So I have to try disable LPT in superIO but I need to write some functions for it...

Where can I find the BOM for the board? I don't see one in the github and generating one using the KiCAD files leaves some things such as the fuses ambiguous.

themajortechie wrote on 2024-01-07, 01:41:

Where can I find the BOM for the board? I don't see one in the github and generating one using the KiCAD files leaves some things such as the fuses ambiguous.

I'm using some 16V/0.5A fuses. I think it should be okay as long as it's above all your normally working voltages (that would be 12V here).

I don't think there's any explicit requirement regarding capacitor voltage ratings, particularly with polarized ones (10uF). Mine are rated 50V.

R6 is responsible for toggling which configuration register address to use. By default it should be left unpopulated, so it uses 4E/4F. If you want to use 2E/2F register, then put a 10K resistor there.

I'm not seeing other stuffs ambiguous. Components from any vendor should do as long as they're of correct specs.

Just one thing, you'll probably want to use resistors of higher ohms for the few that sit between LED and their respective voltage lines, as in my case, the LEDs appear too bright with just 1K resistor before them.

LSS10999 wrote on 2024-01-07, 02:53:

I'm using some 16V/0.5A fuses. I think it should be okay as long as it's above all your normally working voltages (that would be […]
Show full quote

themajortechie wrote on 2024-01-07, 01:41:

Where can I find the BOM for the board? I don't see one in the github and generating one using the KiCAD files leaves some things such as the fuses ambiguous.

I'm using some 16V/0.5A fuses. I think it should be okay as long as it's above all your normally working voltages (that would be 12V here).

I don't think there's any explicit requirement regarding capacitor voltage ratings, particularly with polarized ones (10uF). Mine are rated 50V.

R6 is responsible for toggling which configuration register address to use. By default it should be left unpopulated, so it uses 4E/4F. If you want to use 2E/2F register, then put a 10K resistor there.

I'm not seeing other stuffs ambiguous. Components from any vendor should do as long as they're of correct specs.

Just one thing, you'll probably want to use resistors of higher ohms for the few that sit between LED and their respective voltage lines, as in my case, the LEDs appear too bright with just 1K resistor before them.

Ah, alright then. Thanks!

themajortechie wrote on 2024-01-07, 18:14:

LSS10999 wrote on 2024-01-07, 02:53:

I'm using some 16V/0.5A fuses. I think it should be okay as long as it's above all your normally working voltages (that would be […]
Show full quote

themajortechie wrote on 2024-01-07, 01:41:

Where can I find the BOM for the board? I don't see one in the github and generating one using the KiCAD files leaves some things such as the fuses ambiguous.

I'm using some 16V/0.5A fuses. I think it should be okay as long as it's above all your normally working voltages (that would be 12V here).

I don't think there's any explicit requirement regarding capacitor voltage ratings, particularly with polarized ones (10uF). Mine are rated 50V.

R6 is responsible for toggling which configuration register address to use. By default it should be left unpopulated, so it uses 4E/4F. If you want to use 2E/2F register, then put a 10K resistor there.

I'm not seeing other stuffs ambiguous. Components from any vendor should do as long as they're of correct specs.

Just one thing, you'll probably want to use resistors of higher ohms for the few that sit between LED and their respective voltage lines, as in my case, the LEDs appear too bright with just 1K resistor before them.

Ah, alright then. Thanks!

Next step further.
I managed to disable LPT device block in SuperIO after boot via ISADUMP/ISASET utils ported from Linux to DOS by my friend Ruik
http://rayer.g6.cz/download/download.htm#ISADUMP

1# konfigurační klíč:
2isaset.exe -f 0x2e 0x87
3isaset.exe -f 0x2e 0x01
4isaset.exe -f 0x2e 0x55
5isaset.exe -f 0x2e 0x55
6# volba logického zařízení č. 3 (LPT)
7isaset.exe 0x2e 0x2f 0x07 0x03
8# vynulování CR 30h
9isaset.exe 0x2e 0x2f 0x30 0x00
10# výpis všech registrů logického zařízení č. 3 pro kontrolu
11isadump.exe -k 0x87,0x01,0x55,0x55 0x2e 0x2f 3

After this HWINFO stopped showing LPT and in IRQ list it shows IRQ 7 as free. The SBPro Test program stills cannot find IRQ but programs using MIDAS library can! So I got sound from Zdoom (no config avail.) and Boost without manual config.

Here I shot one lo-fi quick&dirty video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywgrP-Ki3v4 on a mob.phone, not easy to film one hand and type with other hand, sound is just from overdriven headphones so don't blame quality, it's just for purpose showing the HW setup +init + config sequence...

Beautiful!!
Please notify me if you plan on selling a few batches.