Have you played around with the 28MB creative soundfont (28MBGM.sf2) from PCI X-Fi driver CD? Apparently that too still has at least some GS support even though it's from 2006.

Just curious, I didn't know such a thing existed and it gave me a chuckle when I found it from the driver CD 😁

Sombrero wrote on 2024-03-07, 15:02:

Have you played around with the 28MB creative soundfont (28MBGM.sf2) from PCI X-Fi driver CD? Apparently that too still has at least some GS support even though it's from 2006.

Just curious, I didn't know such a thing existed and it gave me a chuckle when I found it from the driver CD 😁

Hah, I had no idea that was a thing either! 😁 Do you have a link to the specific driver CD which contains that soundfont? I checked my X-Fi Titanum Fatal1ty CD and it only has the 2, 4, and 8 MB versions that I mentioned earlier.

EDIT - seems to be on the Vista driver CD. Apparently, some fellow Vogons users were not particularly impressed by it.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-03-07, 15:48:

Hah, I had no idea that was a thing either! 😁 Do you have a link to the specific driver CD which contains that soundfont? I checked my X-Fi Titanum Fatal1ty CD and it only has the 2, 4, and 8 MB versions that I mentioned earlier.

EDIT - seems to be on the Vista driver CD. Apparently, some fellow Vogons users were not particularly impressed by it.

I got an original driver CD with a PCI X-Fi Fatality I bought and it's in there. It has XP drivers so I don't at least think it's the Vista CD.

But if the Vista CD has it have a look if you feel like it, looks like the image is at vogons drivers. I can also upload the .sf2 somewhere if it isn't.

Sombrero wrote on 2024-03-07, 15:57:

I got an original driver CD with a PCI X-Fi Fatality I bought and it's in there. It has XP drivers so I don't at least think it's the Vista CD.

But if the Vista CD has it have a look if you feel like it, looks like the image is at vogons drivers. I can also upload the .sf2 somewhere if it isn't.

I found it on this X-Fi Vista driver CD which is indeed hosted on Vogonsdrivers. Seems to behave the same as 8GMGSMT.SF2 with regards to GS. Meaning, most effects in the Dune 2 intro sound wrong (rockets sounding like a telephone is ringing etc). Maybe the sample quality is a bit higher than on the 8MB version, but in terms of GS compatibility, there isn't much difference.

It seems like Creative stopped caring about GS instruments around 1998 or so.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-03-07, 16:11:

It seems like Creative stopped caring about GS instruments around 1998 or so.

Right, expected as much. I did give it a very quick try when I found it but I honestly wasn't sure did I hear any difference between it and the 8MB version so I just put it aside as a curiosity.

It would have been rather surprising (and hilarious) had X-Fi shipped with some ultimate soundfont for DOS. Buy the Fatality edition, get XRAM effects for DOOM!

Hi,

Regarding the different SF2 soundfonts from Creative:
1. 28MBGM.sf2 has one of the biggest bugs ever made in an 'officially' released soundfont by Creative/Emu. Namely it completely misses Picked Bass (34) preset from the capital tones. So its usage is absolutely not recommended. Its characteristics is almost the same as the 4/8 MB soundfonts (but has more serious bugs) and there are much better sounding/less buggy soundfonts in the ~30MB range. It has only 135 presets (missing Picked Bass and no GS/MT-32 variation tones at all but it has 8 GS drum kits). Considering its size it is a rather mediocre 28MB soundfont.
Here is a test file attached to confirm the above bug:
download/file.php?id=129937

2. 8MBGMSFX.SF2/CT8MGM.SF2 (exactly the same one) is somewhere between the above and the 4MB one: it has 137 presets (so no GS/MT-32 variation tones at all, but has 9 GS drum kits). Compared to the 28MB one at least it has fully implemented capital tones (Picked Bass is not missing) and also has SFX Drum set at program 56 on channel 10. Otherwise it also has the same characteristics as the others.

3. 4GMGSMT.SF2/CT4MGM.SF2 (exactly the same one) is a decent 4MB SF2 soundfont with 329 presets (full GS variation tones and Drum sets + MT-32 tones and Drum set) . Arguably the 4GMGSMT.SF2 version is the most feature rich since it contains the most variation tones and drum sets.

All the above SF2 soundfonts have rather serious instrument range definition bugs. Try them e.g. with Storm.mid from Duke Nukem3D. The cricket mimicking effect is completely missing at the beginning:
download/file.php?id=129928

A decade ago I fixed some bugs in the 4MB one since it was the most feature rich and had the best performance/size ratio:
download/file.php?id=129934

Falcosoft wrote on 2024-03-07, 16:59:

3. 4GMGSMT.SF2/CT4MGM.SF2 (exactly the same one) is a decent 4MB SF2 soundfont with 329 presets (full GS variation tones and Drum sets + MT-32 tones and Drum set) . Arguably the 4GMGSMT.SF2 version is the most feature rich since it contains the most variation tones and drum sets.

Interesting! I noticed the same thing while testing the Dune 2 intro, but it's good to have proper confirmation from someone who has examined the soundfont in detail.

To my ears, CT8MGM.SF2 has a slight advantage in sample quality over CT4MGM.SF2 which is why I use it for General MIDI only games. The 4MB version should of course be used for games which utilize GS instruments.

Falcosoft wrote on 2024-03-07, 16:59:

All the above SF2 soundfonts have rather serious instrument range definition bugs. Try them e.g. with Storm.mid from Duke Nukem3D. The cricket mimicking effect is completely missing at the beginning:

I can confirm this. The default version of CT4MGM.SF2 doesn't play the "beeping" sound at the start of the track, while your fixed version does.

If you don't mind, can I use your fixed version of the file when I next update the driver CD image? Might take a while, but there's bound to be another update at some point.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-03-07, 18:51:

I can confirm this. The default version of CT4MGM.SF2 doesn't play the "beeping" sound at the start of the track, while your fixed version does.

If you don't mind, can I use your fixed version of the file when I next update the driver CD image? Might take a while, but there's bound to be another update at some point.

Yes, of course.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-03-07, 13:16:

Listen to the this playlist to check how games sound on a SBLive using this SC-55 soundfont. For comparison, here's how the games sound on a real Roland Sound Canvas.

Do you confirm that there is a minimum RAM requirement to use the SC-55 soundfont ? I read in an earlier message on this thread that it requires at least 128 MB if not 256...

mtest001 wrote on 2024-04-26, 14:55:

Do you confirm that there is a minimum RAM requirement to use the SC-55 soundfont ? I read in an earlier message on this thread that it requires at least 128 MB if not 256...

On SBLive/Audigy cards soundfonts get loaded into system memory (RAM). Since this particular SC-55 soundfont takes up around 47MB, I wouldn't recommend loading it on a PC with less than 128MB RAM.

This is because RAM taken up by the soundfont cannot be used by the operating system and/or games, at least that's what Creative's documentation implies.

I tried really hard to get an Audigy SB0160 working. I could get the card working on a fresh Windows 98SE install... but I'd get hammered with BSODs and crashing, then the card just stopped showing up in system. The Joystick port also never shows up.
Trying to get it running on a previous installed OS would break everything, sound on another card would barely work, frequent crashing etc...
Ended up sticking with my OPTiAudio 16 ISA.

I am a bit disappointed, I really wanted the EAX, but that card has created so much instability on my rig, I've never had it running smoothly. I'm going to do a fresh install (again) and not try installing it.

badconduct wrote on 2024-08-12, 19:16:

I tried really hard to get an Audigy SB0160 working. I could get the card working on a fresh Windows 98SE install... but I'd get hammered with BSODs and crashing, then the card just stopped showing up in system.

Just wondering since you're posting here, did you use the correct guide for installing the Audigy drivers? This one is for SBLive cards only. I have a different guide and driver image for Audigy cards.

That said, I'm not too familiar with the SB0160, but from what I gather, that's an Audigy ES. I'm unsure of the exact specifications of that model, but there have been reports that SBLive and Audigy cards with LE/SE/ES suffixes might need specific drivers i.e. the ones from the installation CD that they shipped with.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-08-12, 19:36:

badconduct wrote on 2024-08-12, 19:16:

I tried really hard to get an Audigy SB0160 working. I could get the card working on a fresh Windows 98SE install... but I'd get hammered with BSODs and crashing, then the card just stopped showing up in system.

Just wondering since you're posting here, did you use the correct guide for installing the Audigy drivers? This one is for SBLive cards only. I have a different guide and driver image for Audigy cards.

That said, I'm not too familiar with the SB0160, but from what I gather, that's an Audigy ES. I'm unsure of the exact specifications of that model, but there have been reports that SBLive and Audigy cards with LE/SE/ES suffixes might need specific drivers i.e. the ones from the installation CD that they shipped with.

I did not see that one, although the steps are pretty similar. I have 3 ISO's for Audigy, it is VERY possible I don't have the right disk for it. I'm confident I had this working properly at one point, but it's never worked since I formatted it years ago. It's been unstable and crashing, audio driver disappears, game port doesn't show up...
Creative doesn't show the disk anymore under their support page either.

badconduct wrote on 2024-08-12, 23:37:

I did not see that one, although the steps are pretty similar. I have 3 ISO's for Audigy, it is VERY possible I don't have the right disk for it.

Not sure which ISO you used, but the latest versions of both of my guides include customized driver CD images, which are uploaded to Vogonsdrivers. Only those are intended to be used with the guides.

Here's my customized Audigy driver image, but as mentioned earlier, I can't say if that will work on an ES model.

Thank you for your work on this. I've had a Dell OEM Live card that I tried a half dozen ISOs with and never got it to work. This worked on the first try! (CT4870).

Does the DOS support need to be installed for DOS games being run under Win98SE? Or is it only for pure DOS mode?

kingcake wrote on 2024-08-31, 01:38:

Thank you for your work on this. I've had a Dell OEM Live card that I tried a half dozen ISOs with and never got it to work. This worked on the first try! (CT4870).

You're welcome!

Does the DOS support need to be installed for DOS games being run under Win98SE?

That's right. Without installing the DOS component, the card will have no SB16 emulation, and will work as a Windows only device. Running DOS games on SBLive cards (even from within the Windows command prompt) requires SB16 emulation.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-06-02, 14:40:

0.0 Disclaimer: […]
Show full quote

0.0 Disclaimer:

This guide is provided "as is" and free of charge. There is no warranty or support of any kind. By using this guide, you acknowledge and agree that you do so at your sole risk. The author is not liable for any damages and claims arising from the use of this guide.

0.1 Introduction:

This guide will help you install VxD drivers for Sound Blaster Live! cards under Windows 98SE or Windows ME, including proper support for DOS gaming. I have personally tested this method with a Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 (model SB0100). Later on, other people have tested it with additional SBLive models as well, and all information about that has been summarized in this post. For reference, by using this guide, you get the following features from your SBLive card under Win9x:

• EAX 1 and 2 support for Win9x games
• Sound Blaster 16 emulation for DOS games
• FM Synthesis emulation for DOS games
• General MIDI emulation for DOS games
• Soundfont support for DOS games running under Windows 98SE

Note that soundfonts only work when DOS games are running from within Windows 98/ME. If you go to pure DOS (by choosing Start > Shutdown > Restart in MS-DOS mode) then the card will use the (worse sounding) ECW sets instead. To my knowledge, there is no way to use .SF2 based soundfonts in pure DOS with an SBLive card.

Lastly, this guide and the modified driver pack that it uses are tailored to the US English version of Windows 98SE or Windows ME. Installing these drivers on a non-English system may cause the volume control screen (and possibly other aspects of the OS) to appear in English.

1.Hardware and software requirements:

Before proceeding to the next section of this guide, make sure that the following hardware and software requirements are met. If they are not, the driver installation may fail.

1.1 Certain chipsets have compatibility issues with VxD drivers and Creative's SB16 emulation. If you have a motherboard based on an Nvidia nForce chipset or an Intel ICH10+ chipset, then your system might not be compatible with this guide. Additionally, certain motherboards based on VIA chipsets may have compatibility issues with SBLive cards. For better stability on VIA systems, I recommend using an Audigy 2 or ZS card instead of a SBLive, and following this guide
1.2 Upon booting up your system, enter the BIOS and disable all COM and LPT ports in order to free up additional resources. If your motherboard has an integrated sound card, network card or any other integrated device that you are not using, disable it in the BIOS as well. Lastly, if you are not using USB, disable that too
1.3 During the driver installation process, the SBLive should be the only sound card in your system. Using a second sound card may cause the driver installation to fail
1.4 This guide has only been tested on Windows 98SE and Windows ME. A clean install of Windows must be performed before attempting the driver installation procedure. Do not use any "unofficial service packs". Only install the drivers for your motherboard and graphics card until you complete all the steps in this guide
1.5 A Sound Blaster Live! requires one free IRQ for the card itself. The value assigned to this IRQ varies from system to system, but it should not be the same as the IRQ assigned to the SB16 emulation device. Additionally, the SB16 emulation device requires three I/O ports, one IRQ and two DMA channels. The default values are: I/O ports 220, 330 and 388, IRQ 5, DMA 1 and DMA 5. If any of those resources are not free, the driver installation may fail. To determine if your system has enough free resources, under Windows 98SE click Start > Programs > Accessories > System Tools > System Information > Hardware Resources and check the IRQ, DMA and I/O sections

2. Preparation:

2.1 Download the modified SBLive driver CD image, and burn it to a disc
2.2 Place the disc in the CD-ROM drive on your Win98SE/ME machine, and cancel the autorun installer in case it starts
2.3 This guide assumes that your CD-ROM drive resides at D: (default location). If it's using a different letter, simply substitute that letter each time you come across D: in this guide

3. Windows Driver Installation

3.1 Run D:\CTShared\LaunchApp\SysInfo\Setup.exe which will install the Creative System Information utility and update the InstallShield Engine (important later)
3.2 Run D:\DirectX\dxsetup.exe which will install DirectX 9.0a and restart your computer (if you already have a newer version installed, skip this step)
3.3 Run D:\Audio\Drivers\CTZAPXX.exe and select "Driver Installation" and "VXD Drivers" then click Ok
3.4 Driver installation will take several minutes, don't interrupt the process until you are prompted to Restart then click Ok
3.5 After the restart, wait until the installer finishes, then go to Start > Settings > Control Panel > Multimedia > Audio > Playback > Advanced Properties > Performance > Sample Rate Conversion Quality > move the slider to "Best"
3.6 Start > Run > sndvol32.exe > Ok. Note that all the volume sliders are currently at 50% which is fairly quiet. You might want to move the sliders to a higher value and also mute any unused inputs

4. Installing Creative Utilities

4.1 Run D:\Audio\AudioHQ\Setup.exe and install Creative AudioHQ (if you get an InstallShield Engine error here, repeat step 3.1)
4.2 Run D:\Audio\Diagnose\Setup.exe and install Creative Diagnostics
4.3 Run D:\Audio\Restore\Setup.exe and install Creative Restore Defaults
4.4 Run D:\Audio\SurMix2\Setup.exe and install Creative Surround Mixer
4.5 Start > Programs > Creative > Creative AudioHQ > Speaker and select the speaker setup that you are using, then click "Test" (in the screenshot below I'm using 5.1 speakers)

The attachment Speakers.jpg is no longer available

5. DOS Driver Installation

5.1 Run D:\DOSDRV\Setup.exe and restart when prompted
5.2 Wait until the Creative SB16 Emulation drivers are fully installed (this may take a few minutes)
5.3 During the boot process you might see a "Config file incomplete" error. Restart your computer one more time and it should disappear

If the installation was successful, you should now have the following under Device Manager:

The attachment 002.png is no longer available

6. Using a higher quality soundfont

6.1 Go to the D:\DOSDRV\SF2 folder and copy all the .SF2 files from there to C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM
6.2 Go to the D:\DOSDRV\ECW folder and copy all the .ECW files from there to C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM
6.3 Start > Programs > Creative > Creative AudioHQ > SoundFont
6.4 Click on "Configure Bank" then click on the default soundfont (2GMGSMT Rev N++) to select it, then click Replace, select C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\CT8MGM.SF2 wait a few seconds until it loads then click Ok > Close
6.5 Open C:\WINDOWS\CTSYN.INI in Notepad and change this line: Waveset=C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\default.ecw to this: Waveset=C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\EAPCI8M.ECW
6.6 Save the changes you just made to CTSYN.INI then restart your computer
6.7 Run your favorite DOS game and in setup choose General MIDI for music

The attachment AudioHQ_SoundFont.jpg is no longer available

For reference, here's how your games will sound with Creative's CT8MGM soundfont. Essentially, with this step complete, you can now select any soundfont that you like for General MIDI playback in DOS games. For example, if you want to use a soundfont which more closely resembles a Roland Sound Canvas see this post. Alternatively, if you want to play games which use GS instruments, see this post.

7. Getting MT-32 compatibility in pure DOS (optional for Win98SE, not applicable for WinME)

7.1 Start > Shutdown > Restart in MS-DOS mode
7.2 C:\Progra~1\Creative\DOSDrv\sbemixer.exe
7.3 Make sure that the MT-32 option is checked, then click Save and press ESC to exit
7.4 Run your favorite DOS game that supports MT-32 (like Monkey Island for example)

Note that MT-32 emulation doesn't sound too great on this card, but I'm including it for completeness sake.

That said, these drivers also allow your SBLive to emulate FM Synthesis, should you want that. Of course, this sounds different from a genuine OPL3 chip, but it may still be somewhat usable, depending on the game that you're playing.

Hi...greetings joseph, i'm trying to install my first retro pc to play some sierra and lucas arts game.
i have P1 166 Mhz , 80 ram , Chipset: VIA Apollo VPX, WIn96SE
Sb Live Ct4760 + Front panel
i'm completely newbie with all the settings, but gladly found your tutorial
Tried to follow your instructions and all drivers already installed
Creative audio @port 6400 irq 5
Try to play Fate of Atlantis from pure dos there was no sound at all
Did i do something wrong?
Please advise....thank you

yukboboyuk wrote on 2024-12-04, 16:56:

Hi...greetings joseph, i'm trying to install my first retro pc to play some sierra and lucas arts game. i have P1 166 Mhz , 80 r […]
Show full quote

Hi...greetings joseph, i'm trying to install my first retro pc to play some sierra and lucas arts game.
i have P1 166 Mhz , 80 ram , Chipset: VIA Apollo VPX, WIn96SE
Sb Live Ct4760 + Front panel
i'm completely newbie with all the settings, but gladly found your tutorial
Tried to follow your instructions and all drivers already installed
Creative audio @port 6400 irq 5
Try to play Fate of Atlantis from pure dos there was no sound at all
Did i do something wrong?
Please advise....thank you

Based on that screenshot, you have two SB16 emulation entries in Device Manager. This shouldn't be the case with SBLive cards, so I'm guessing something went wrong during the installation process. Also, the port you selected in the Fate of Atlantis setup is incorrect. It should be 220, not 6400. The latter is the internal address which is used by the card itself, and isn't meant for games.

Other than that, it's possible that Fate of Atlantis is simply too old for the SBLive. For DOS games from the early 90s, it's best to use an ISA sound card.

Does the Audigy driver enable Soundfont 2.01 operators on the SBLive, or will the SBLive still be restricted to Soundfont 2.0?

Stretch wrote on 2024-12-07, 21:05:

Does the Audigy driver enable Soundfont 2.01 operators on the SBLive, or will the SBLive still be restricted to Soundfont 2.0?

I'm not familiar with the differences between these soundfont versions, so someone else will have to test that.