for mouse and keyboard i recommend a "Microsoft Wireless Keyboard 800 & Mouse 1000" if you can still buy them, they come with a single dongle which you could hook up to a usb swtich for multiple systems and just use your kvm for monitor only, thats what we used to do at work especially as the kvm's were PS/2 only and old AF,

i really liked the feel of the keyboard and its all round compatibility out of the box was great, it worked on my socket 7 board even for installs, and also my Playstation 2&3, i think a later microsoft keyboard and mouse combo would be just as compatible, i need to source another one as i stepped on the dongle while it was plugged in the front of my computer, once you break the dongle its useless.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-10-23, 07:13:

A PS/2 mouse will have a lower polling rate than a USB mouse. You can tweak that a bit using programs like PS2Rate, but it still feels sluggish to me compared to even the most generic USB mouse intended for office use.

I wasn't aware of this. But I think I must be less sensitive to this than other people. Ps/2 feels OK to me at 60fps and below (in general I use vsync on retro hardware, as I hate screen tearing). On my modern PC though I like 144hz and I use my high polling rate gaming mouse and monitor with gsync enabled.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-10-23, 07:13:

If you mean that most of us played games at 30-ish FPS during that time (due to not having top of the line hardware) then I do agree. But those games can certainly hit 60 FPS and will feel much more responsive that way.

As an example, you could get 60 FPS in Quake 2 with a Voodoo 2 SLI and a 300 MHz CPU even back in 1998. However, for 1999s Unreal Tournament and Quake 3, you needed more powerful hardware. Maybe I'm used to modern gaming practices, but there's no way I'd play first-person games below 60 FPS with a keyboard + mouse setup nowadays.

Yes, of course you are correct. In many cases it will improve your experience to have high framerates and modern control methods. But there are some games where if you use modern controls and framerates, it will give you an advantage that the developers didn't tune the game for. Take Duke Nukem 3D for instance. The original controls assumed you'd be using keyboard only and didn't strafe. If you use the mouse and use strafing on the keyboard the game is ridiculously easy. To play with modern controls in that game though is much less infuriating. Haha. It is personal preference at the end of the day.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2024-10-23, 07:54:

But there are some games where if you use modern controls and framerates, it will give you an advantage that the developers didn't tune the game for. Take Duke Nukem 3D for instance. The original controls assumed you'd be using keyboard only and didn't strafe. If you use the mouse and use strafing on the keyboard the game is ridiculously easy.

I do agree that most people played Doom and Duke3D with keyboard only back in the day, but that certainly wasn't the only option. Even the original versions of those games support keyboard + mouse (or joystick), though it takes some effort to set that up correctly.

Furthermore, there are indications that John Romero played Doom with keyboard + mouse when he was recording the original demos for the game. See this video for more details. As for the games becoming easier due to that, I also agree, but you can offset that by selecting a higher difficulty level.

P.S.

If you really wanted to, you could get 60 FPS in Duke3D by running it at 320x200 on a Pentium classic 166 and an S3 Trio64 card, both of which were available around the time when the game was released. Doom however was limited to 35 FPS in its original version, and needed source ports to unlock 60 FPS.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-10-23, 08:07:

Furthermore, there are indications that John Romero played Doom with keyboard + mouse when he was recording the original demos for the game. See this video for more details. As for the games becoming easier due to that, I also agree, but you can offset that by selecting a higher difficulty level.

Fascinating. I only ever saw people play Doom and Duke3D with keyboard back in the day. It wasn't until Quake that I was aware that people used the mouse. Even that though I think required a console command to enable full mouse support, as it didn't work properly otherwise.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-10-23, 08:07:

If you really wanted to, you could get 60 FPS in Duke3D by running it at 320x200 on a Pentium classic 166 and an S3 Trio64 card, both of which were available around the time when the game was released. Doom however was limited to 35 FPS in its original version, and needed source ports to unlock 60 FPS.

Yes, true. I think I probably played it at 320x200 originally. I believe I had Pentium 120Mhz (Non MMX) with S3 Trio 64.

DudeFace wrote on 2024-10-23, 07:38:

for mouse and keyboard i recommend a "Microsoft Wireless Keyboard 800 & Mouse 1000" if you can still buy them, they come with a single dongle which you could hook up to a usb swtich for multiple systems and just use your kvm for monitor only, thats what we used to do at work especially as the kvm's were PS/2 only and old AF,

i really liked the feel of the keyboard and its all round compatibility out of the box was great, it worked on my socket 7 board even for installs, and also my Playstation 2&3, i think a later microsoft keyboard and mouse combo would be just as compatible, i need to source another one as i stepped on the dongle while it was plugged in the front of my computer, once you break the dongle its useless.

Sorry. I missed your message earlier. I guess I could use a USB switcher in addition to the KVM. I will see how I feel with the PS/2 setup to start with though, as that's the simpler solution.

I've been working on a very similar concept for 8 years, and the spread seems about right. That big crunch of progress from 97-2003 is crazy and of the 9 systems I have covering 1992-2011, 4 are of that short period. I try to run a different memory/CPU socket generation and windows version as the main differentiator.

My biggest advice pertains to the DOS/98 machine and is honestly just to stop worrying about everyone in the retro computing community being obsessed with DOS compatibility on sound cards! It doesn't matter if your 98SE machine "only" has a PCI sound card and is terrible at SB emulation, because your DOS and Windows 95 rigs will have native ISA cards with the real hardware onboard.

You're basically there already but another personal favourite piece of advice is to use a couple of KVMs instead of trying to maintain bunch of period-correct monitors, mouses, and keyboards. I have one for VGA systems with a CRT up to 1280*1024, one for DVI systems with a 1080p LCD, and one for DisplayPort on 1440p. Including my "modern" rig that's 11 PCs and 5 desktop Macs but only 3 desks. Go for a Belkin Omniview PRO on the earlier systems because those can seamlessly take PS/2 mouse inputs and provide serial OR PS/2 to each PC.

I even have a joystick/gameport "matrix" with the ability to send any one of 4 joysticks/gamepads to any one of 5 PCs. That one is a cable management nightmare though!

(An aside-- I don't go older than 486, so for any older DOS games I just set them up with a little batch file to run ICD ... game executable ... ICE for each game. I guess this is sort of like using SetMul but less fiddly to make seamless. I do have a turbo button but I hate having to remember which games need it, and always forget to turn it off. There are probably loads of games this won't be enough for, but they're too old for me to care about them, sorry 'bout it.)

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2024-10-23, 10:03:

DudeFace wrote on 2024-10-23, 07:38:

for mouse and keyboard i recommend a "Microsoft Wireless Keyboard 800 & Mouse 1000" if you can still buy them, they come with a single dongle which you could hook up to a usb swtich for multiple systems and just use your kvm for monitor only, thats what we used to do at work especially as the kvm's were PS/2 only and old AF,

i really liked the feel of the keyboard and its all round compatibility out of the box was great, it worked on my socket 7 board even for installs, and also my Playstation 2&3, i think a later microsoft keyboard and mouse combo would be just as compatible, i need to source another one as i stepped on the dongle while it was plugged in the front of my computer, once you break the dongle its useless.

Sorry. I missed your message earlier. I guess I could use a USB switcher in addition to the KVM. I will see how I feel with the PS/2 setup to start with though, as that's the simpler solution.

no worries 😀 i only suggested the wireless combo as it worked on every system i tried it on from my socket 7 from 1997 which surprised me and even game consoles, the keys have a nice feel and the mouse is a decent size compared to later microsoft mice also the scroll rate is faster and the batteries last a long time, the plus side is you'd only need 1 usb going to each system rather than 2 PS/2 cables, i suppose use what ever works best.

I am wondering if I should skip the Geforce 6800 build and instead use that MicroATX case for a pseudo 386 PC using a Pentium MMX thats got all caches disabled. The motherboard I have is baby AT. But I have an adapter to allow usage of an ATX PSU with it. The motherboard has header pins for PS/2 mouse, so I'd have to make up something to attach to that header. Looks like it will fit in the case if I do some custom mounts. I will be able to use 1 PCI video card and up to 3 ISA cards. See attached image.

I am thinking that an S3 Trio 64 with Soundblaster Pro 2.0 would go well in this. Maybe with a 4Gb CF card internally and DOS 6.22 + Windows 3.11.

This way I can use my Pentium MMX at full speed usually, but if I need 486 speeds I can adjust it using just SETMUL. No reboots required. Unless I want to mess with multipliers of course. I may add external rotary switches to access the multiplier and bus speed if I find myself wanting to do that often.

Cyfrifiadur wrote on 2024-10-23, 11:30:

I've been working on a very similar concept for 8 years, and the spread seems about right. That big crunch of progress from 97-2003 is crazy and of the 9 systems I have covering 1992-2011, 4 are of that short period. I try to run a different memory/CPU socket generation and windows version as the main differentiator.

Yes, that period of time was crazy with the speed of advancement. Its no surprise that there were compatability issues during this time. I am actually thinking I will use a Pentium II 400Mhz now with the TNT/Voodoo 2 SLI system. It seems more balanced between the 300Mhz Pentium MMX and the 700Mhz PIII.

Cyfrifiadur wrote on 2024-10-23, 11:30:

My biggest advice pertains to the DOS/98 machine and is honestly just to stop worrying about everyone in the retro computing community being obsessed with DOS compatibility on sound cards! It doesn't matter if your 98SE machine "only" has a PCI sound card and is terrible at SB emulation, because your DOS and Windows 95 rigs will have native ISA cards with the real hardware onboard.

Yes, I know what you mean. But since I have the cards. What's the harm? Faster machines are better for playing Duke3D and System Shock for instance.

Cyfrifiadur wrote on 2024-10-23, 11:30:

You're basically there already but another personal favourite piece of advice is to use a couple of KVMs instead of trying to maintain bunch of period-correct monitors, mouses, and keyboards. I have one for VGA systems with a CRT up to 1280*1024, one for DVI systems with a 1080p LCD, and one for DisplayPort on 1440p. Including my "modern" rig that's 11 PCs and 5 desktop Macs but only 3 desks. Go for a Belkin Omniview PRO on the earlier systems because those can seamlessly take PS/2 mouse inputs and provide serial OR PS/2 to each PC.

Yes, we think alike. I have 3 KVMs for different uses.

Cyfrifiadur wrote on 2024-10-23, 11:30:

I even have a joystick/gameport "matrix" with the ability to send any one of 4 joysticks/gamepads to any one of 5 PCs. That one is a cable management nightmare though!

I'd be interested to know more. My intention right now is to use DB15 extension cables and make a panel that has one socket for each PC with gameport. I can then plug my joystick/wheel/gamepad into the PC I want to use it with via that panel.

Cyfrifiadur wrote on 2024-10-23, 11:30:

(An aside-- I don't go older than 486, so for any older DOS games I just set them up with a little batch file to run ICD ... game executable ... ICE for each game. I guess this is sort of like using SetMul but less fiddly to make seamless. I do have a turbo button but I hate having to remember which games need it, and always forget to turn it off. There are probably loads of games this won't be enough for, but they're too old for me to care about them, sorry 'bout it.)

I haven't heard of that method of slowing a PC.

DudeFace wrote on 2024-10-23, 07:38:

for mouse and keyboard i recommend a "Microsoft Wireless Keyboard 800 & Mouse 1000" if you can still buy them, they come with a single dongle which you could hook up to a usb swtich for multiple systems and just use your kvm for monitor only, thats what we used to do at work especially as the kvm's were PS/2 only and old AF,

i really liked the feel of the keyboard and its all round compatibility out of the box was great, it worked on my socket 7 board even for installs, and also my Playstation 2&3, i think a later microsoft keyboard and mouse combo would be just as compatible, i need to source another one as i stepped on the dongle while it was plugged in the front of my computer, once you break the dongle its useless.

Looks like on ebay UK there's a seller selling these in new condition. He has 4 of them. £27 plus postage

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2024-10-23, 19:50:

DudeFace wrote on 2024-10-23, 07:38:

for mouse and keyboard i recommend a "Microsoft Wireless Keyboard 800 & Mouse 1000" if you can still buy them, they come with a single dongle which you could hook up to a usb swtich for multiple systems and just use your kvm for monitor only, thats what we used to do at work especially as the kvm's were PS/2 only and old AF,

i really liked the feel of the keyboard and its all round compatibility out of the box was great, it worked on my socket 7 board even for installs, and also my Playstation 2&3, i think a later microsoft keyboard and mouse combo would be just as compatible, i need to source another one as i stepped on the dongle while it was plugged in the front of my computer, once you break the dongle its useless.

Looks like on ebay UK there's a seller selling these in new condition. He has 4 of them. £27 plus postage

just seen them thanks for the heads up, they look pretty much new, think i might have to grab one.

Cyfrifiadur wrote on 2024-10-23, 11:30:

I even have a joystick/gameport "matrix" with the ability to send any one of 4 joysticks/gamepads to any one of 5 PCs. That one is a cable management nightmare though!

does it look something like this. 🤣

I'm well past the 7 retro PC mark so have alot more overlap and duplication then you.
I also tend to default to Intel/Nvidia/Creative but if you try and force yourself off the same 3 PC's then you really want to mix up the hardware a bit more.
eg
Both your P3 500 and P3 700 have a SB16 (AWE is just an enhanced SB16)
I'd swap one of these for another soundcard like the ESS or Yamaha YMF just for something different.

3D in dos is also interesting. Personally I think the Riva 128 is a bit boring, All my dos rigs I try and choose a card from this list so I can play around with alternative game versions.
3D Accelerated Games List (Proprietary APIs - No 3DFX/Direct3D)

As others have said Win98 standards settled down a bit. Mostly it came down to D3D vs Glide and EAX vs A3D, and you have both these options covered a few times over.
You do have EMBM, I've still so build a machine to cover that. games that use EMBM

but for me I'd prefer a few more dos rigs with different Video and sound cards that offer more of a noticeable difference, with that said I do find myself playing more Windows games than dos admittedly.

oh and you're not alone I also use a IntelliMouse on a Ps2 KVM. I don't really play 3D shooters past Doom/Duke3D so rarely use a mouse in fast pasted games, GTA SA is probably the fastest paced and still find it ok.

One question how are you handling sound? What I did was just run audio extension cables from the soundcard to somewhere convenient and manually plug the speakers/headphones into whichever machine I'm using.
It's not as elegant as a mixer but those start getting large and expensive at this scale.

Oh and your networking them right? you definalty want them networked!

chinny22 wrote on 2024-10-24, 00:13:

I'm well past the 7 retro PC mark so have alot more overlap and duplication then you. I also tend to default to Intel/Nvidia/Cre […]
Show full quote

I'm well past the 7 retro PC mark so have alot more overlap and duplication then you.
I also tend to default to Intel/Nvidia/Creative but if you try and force yourself off the same 3 PC's then you really want to mix up the hardware a bit more.
eg
Both your P3 500 and P3 700 have a SB16 (AWE is just an enhanced SB16)
I'd swap one of these for another soundcard like the ESS or Yamaha YMF just for something different.

The SB 32 that I have I thought was interesting because it can add processing effects to the music. Whether I like it or not is yet to be determined. Haha. I do have a few ESS and YMF cards. I was considering a YMF with wavetable header to avoid the hanging note bug of the CT2290 and CT2230.

chinny22 wrote on 2024-10-24, 00:13:

3D in dos is also interesting. Personally I think the Riva 128 is a bit boring, All my dos rigs I try and choose a card from this list so I can play around with alternative game versions.
3D Accelerated Games List (Proprietary APIs - No 3DFX/Direct3D)

I have S3 verge and ATI rage. I am not sure I want to dedicate any permanent rigs to these unusual API cards on the list, but certainly it will be interesting to set up a temporary build in the testbench drawer and try out some games using these APIs.

chinny22 wrote on 2024-10-24, 00:13:

As others have said Win98 standards settled down a bit. Mostly it came down to D3D vs Glide and EAX vs A3D, and you have both these options covered a few times over.
You do have EMBM, I've still so build a machine to cover that. games that use EMBM

EMBM is not something I have heard of before. I will have to see what difference it makes to those games.

chinny22 wrote on 2024-10-24, 00:13:

but for me I'd prefer a few more dos rigs with different Video and sound cards that offer more of a noticeable difference, with that said I do find myself playing more Windows games than dos admittedly.

I too want to play around with variations. That's the main reason for the testbench drawer. But I think the permanent PC builds should be designed to have as commonly used hardware as possible to ensure I use them often enough to be worthwhile. So that means boring hardware in them. Haha.

chinny22 wrote on 2024-10-24, 00:13:

oh and you're not alone I also use a IntelliMouse on a Ps2 KVM. I don't really play 3D shooters past Doom/Duke3D so rarely use a mouse in fast pasted games, GTA SA is probably the fastest paced and still find it ok.

I do have some newer games that I want to play also. I have to admit I haven't tried them with that mouse through KVM yet.

chinny22 wrote on 2024-10-24, 00:13:

One question how are you handling sound? What I did was just run audio extension cables from the soundcard to somewhere convenient and manually plug the speakers/headphones into whichever machine I'm using.
It's not as elegant as a mixer but those start getting large and expensive at this scale.

Right now I am using a 4 port passive mixer. I have 3 of them and they seem to work ok. I am considering figuring out the circuit (looks simple) and making one 8 port mixer out of it.

Alternatively I could make something up with a rotary switch that has 8 positions.

It looks like this:

chinny22 wrote on 2024-10-24, 00:13:

Oh and your networking them right? you definalty want them networked!

I have a NAS. My intention is to add another network card to that NAS on a different IP range and physical network to my Internet-enabled network. The Geforce 8800 PC will be connected to that isolated network and has removable IDE caddies. The other full ATX cases will also have caddies. So using the 8800 PC, I will be able to write any files to those other disks and also perform tasks like imaging the disks to the NAS for backup purposes. For the micro ATX PCs I will probably have to use optical media, floppy disks and USB drives to transfer data. But I may decide to network them also.

chinny22 wrote on 2024-10-24, 00:13:

I'm well past the 7 retro PC mark so have alot more overlap and duplication then you. I also tend to default to Intel/Nvidia/Cre […]
Show full quote

I'm well past the 7 retro PC mark so have alot more overlap and duplication then you.
I also tend to default to Intel/Nvidia/Creative but if you try and force yourself off the same 3 PC's then you really want to mix up the hardware a bit more.
eg
Both your P3 500 and P3 700 have a SB16 (AWE is just an enhanced SB16)
I'd swap one of these for another soundcard like the ESS or Yamaha YMF just for something different.

3D in dos is also interesting. Personally I think the Riva 128 is a bit boring, All my dos rigs I try and choose a card from this list so I can play around with alternative game versions.
3D Accelerated Games List (Proprietary APIs - No 3DFX/Direct3D)

As others have said Win98 standards settled down a bit. Mostly it came down to D3D vs Glide and EAX vs A3D, and you have both these options covered a few times over.
You do have EMBM, I've still so build a machine to cover that. games that use EMBM

but for me I'd prefer a few more dos rigs with different Video and sound cards that offer more of a noticeable difference, with that said I do find myself playing more Windows games than dos admittedly.

oh and you're not alone I also use a IntelliMouse on a Ps2 KVM. I don't really play 3D shooters past Doom/Duke3D so rarely use a mouse in fast pasted games, GTA SA is probably the fastest paced and still find it ok.

One question how are you handling sound? What I did was just run audio extension cables from the soundcard to somewhere convenient and manually plug the speakers/headphones into whichever machine I'm using.
It's not as elegant as a mixer but those start getting large and expensive at this scale.

Oh and your networking them right? you definalty want them networked!

the original intellimouse is probably my favourite, i also had a PS/2 one but the cable broke and i threw it out years ago, i like the extra buttons that let you go back and forth through web pages or windows, they do new ones but they dont look the same.
at the moment ive got one of these, they've got a nice shape but the scroll rate is slower than a newer MS mouse, tho there is a program to adjust it, also the wheel clicks left and right like the intellimouse buttons.

for audio i use a couple of switch boxes, ones a 3 way identical to the pic and the other is a 4 way essentially the same just with an additional 3.5 jack,

the output i have plugged into an amp, but you could use a phono to jack to go directly to pc speakers, dont know if they do 8 way ones if not, using two 4way ones plugged into another switch is an option as they are fairly cheap. heres the link.
https://cpc.farnell.com/pro-signal/psg0 ... gLZW_D_BwE

DudeFace wrote on 2024-10-24, 07:08:

for audio i use a couple of switch boxes, ones a 3 way identical to the pic and the other is a 4 way essentially the same just w […]
Show full quote

for audio i use a couple of switch boxes, ones a 3 way identical to the pic and the other is a 4 way essentially the same just with an additional 3.5 jack,

The attachment Audio Switch.jpg is no longer available

the output i have plugged into an amp, but you could use a phono to jack to go directly to pc speakers, dont know if they do 8 way ones if not, using two 4way ones plugged into another switch is an option as they are fairly cheap. heres the link.
https://cpc.farnell.com/pro-signal/psg0 ... gLZW_D_BwE

Thanks for the link. Yes, there's several ways it can be done. I've seen some KVMs that can route audio as well. At the moment I'm thinking a mixer would be least hassle (given that I already have a KVM and it doesn't route audio), as once the audio levels are set for each PC I can basically forget about the audio. I most likely will only ever have one PC on at a time, and if there is more than one I would think only one would be generating audio.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2024-10-23, 17:56:

I am wondering if I should skip the Geforce 6800 build and instead use that MicroATX case for a pseudo 386 PC using a Pentium MMX thats got all caches disabled. The motherboard I have is baby AT. But I have an adapter to allow usage of an ATX PSU with it. The motherboard has header pins for PS/2 mouse, so I'd have to make up something to attach to that header. Looks like it will fit in the case if I do some custom mounts. I will be able to use 1 PCI video card and up to 3 ISA cards.

I've just ordered an ISA video card (Trident) to try with this baby AT motherboard. It has a Pentium MMX 166Mhz CPU in it. The motherboard jumpers from the looks of it may allow me to run it as low as 75Mhz. I wonder how slow it can go!

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2024-10-23, 17:56:

I am wondering if I should skip the Geforce 6800 build and instead use that MicroATX case for a pseudo 386 PC using a Pentium MMX thats got all caches disabled. The motherboard I have is baby AT. But I have an adapter to allow usage of an ATX PSU with it. The motherboard has header pins for PS/2 mouse, so I'd have to make up something to attach to that header. Looks like it will fit in the case if I do some custom mounts. I will be able to use 1 PCI video card and up to 3 ISA cards. See attached image.

Is there any reason not to get a real 386 or 486 in this case? For PS/2 and keyboard connectors, you could potentially just use a adapter.

If its ok to interject I too would skew to more earlier systems as well, love that old hardware. Currently have 24 retro PCs set up for use. If I had to pick only 7 of those for these years of interest it would go something like:

1. 286 with SB2.0/CMS Dos5
2. 386dx-33 with SBPro2 Dos6
3. 486-100 vlb with at least 3 isa sound cards Dos6 and Win3.1
4. P233-mmx with awe64 and Gus Win95
5. P3-1ghz/133 fsb, with Geforce2/3 and pci voodoo3, isa sb clone, Vortex2, Win98
6. Athlon64 with GF 6800 or Radeon X850, Audigy2 and ESS Solo1,for OP Win98/DOS and early XP
7. Core2duo with XFi for late XP. Many gpu options I use 2x gtx 280 sli and a big psu. Yes it is not quiet

1-5 would have intelligent midi for mt32 using a midi sharing box. Also sharing a gm midi device. Belkin pro kvm with PS2 serial conversion

mistermister wrote on 2024-10-24, 22:36:

3. 486-100 vlb with at least 3 isa sound cards

This is the way. 😁

mistermister wrote on 2024-10-24, 22:36:

If its ok to interject I too would skew to more earlier systems as well, love that old hardware. Currently have 24 retro PCs se […]
Show full quote

If its ok to interject I too would skew to more earlier systems as well, love that old hardware. Currently have 24 retro PCs set up for use. If I had to pick only 7 of those for these years of interest it would go something like:

1. 286 with SB2.0/CMS Dos5
2. 386dx-33 with SBPro2 Dos6
3. 486-100 vlb with at least 3 isa sound cards Dos6 and Win3.1
4. P233-mmx with awe64 and Gus Win95
5. P3-1ghz/133 fsb, with Geforce2/3 and pci voodoo3, isa sb clone, Vortex2, Win98
6. Athlon64 with GF 6800 or Radeon X850, Audigy2 and ESS Solo1,for OP Win98/DOS and early XP
7. Core2duo with XFi for late XP. Many gpu options I use 2x gtx 280 sli and a big psu. Yes it is not quiet

1-5 would have intelligent midi for mt32 using a midi sharing box. Also sharing a gm midi device. Belkin pro kvm with PS2 serial conversion

That's an amazing and well spread out list of PCs. I think it will cost too much money for me to do this though, and I don't think I could fit the earlier builds in the cases I have without a lot of work.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-10-24, 20:30:

Is there any reason not to get a real 386 or 486 in this case? For PS/2 and keyboard connectors, you could potentially just use a adapter.

You can get adapters for the keyboard but, as far as I know, there are no ISA or PCI cards available that offer PS/2 mouse that will work in DOS. Though, as MisterMister says there are some KVMs that can convert PS/2 mouse to talk to serial PC.

Also, I have seen very few 386 systems or motherboards for sale. Those I have seen are very expensive and often are missing connectors, cache or RAM.

Also I think a 386 is fixed at whatever speed you buy it. As you need to replace a crystal to change clock speed? The Pentium MMX at least offers me the ability to improve performance on the command line by enabling some of its performance features.

One thing that does worry me though is I have seen some people report that a slowed down Pentium MMX is not a consistent speed. For instance in Wing Commander it may run OK mostly but speed up too much when there's less enemies? Is that true?

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2024-10-24, 06:08:

The SB 32 that I have I thought was interesting because it can add processing effects to the music. Whether I like it or not is yet to be determined. Haha. I do have a few ESS and YMF cards. I was considering a YMF with wavetable header to avoid the hanging note bug of the CT2290 and CT2230.

Agree the SB32 makes sense, I was more saying that a regular SB16 doesn't, If you want to use the AWE features you can, if you don't then its acts just like a regular SB16.
But also agree if you have spare SB16's not much point spending money to install AWE cards in each and every PC.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2024-10-24, 06:08:

I have S3 verge and ATI rage. I am not sure I want to dedicate any permanent rigs to these unusual API cards on the list, but certainly it will be interesting to set up a temporary build in the testbench drawer and try out some games using these APIs.

I'll admit none of the unusual API's are very good, just different, but if we take your verge as an example, it's a great 2d dos card with S3D as a bit of extra functionality.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2024-10-24, 06:08:

EMBM is not something I have heard of before. I will have to see what difference it makes to those games.

Honestly, not much! but something to play around with none the less.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2024-10-24, 06:08:

I too want to play around with variations. That's the main reason for the testbench drawer. But I think the permanent PC builds should be designed to have as commonly used hardware as possible to ensure I use them often enough to be worthwhile. So that means boring hardware in them. Haha.

Fair enough, and in no way am I saying is anything wrong with your builds, just a bit to similar for my tastes, but I'm not the one using them so who carers what I think! 😉