DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-10-27, 21:15:

VivienM wrote on 2024-10-27, 20:52:

Not sure software would control the fan speed. At least not if the motherboard doesn't do variable fan speedness.

Do you see any fan speed-related info in the BIOS setup?

Not from what I could see, no. I can try taking another look, or see if I can find anything online for that motherboard/BIOS.

That wouldn't surprise me, though. My sense is that people only really started caring about thermal stuff, fans, fan speed, noise, etc in the P4 era. Part of it, too, is that power usage became a lot more variable and you didn't want the same level/noise of fans if CPU load/heat generation is relatively low...

Looking at the PDF manual for the motherboard, there is an option to adjust the CPU fan speed, but it only looks to be available in the AMI BIOS setup. Under Hardware Monitor Setup. I'm not sure what the difference or purpose of the AMI BIOS is, or if I can even access it. Pretty sure it's only AWARD BIOS I can load up. I'll have to take another look in the day time.

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-10-28, 01:41:

Looking at the PDF manual for the motherboard, there is an option to adjust the CPU fan speed, but it only looks to be available in the AMI BIOS setup. Under Hardware Monitor Setup. I'm not sure what the difference or purpose of the AMI BIOS is, or if I can even access it. Pretty sure it's only AWARD BIOS I can load up. I'll have to take another look in the day time.

There is only one BIOS installed at a time.

Looking at the RetroWeb, it looks like there were BIOS options from both AMI and Award for this particular motherboard: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/msi-ms-6156-bx11#bios

If you wanted to replace the BIOS, you'd need to reflash the BIOS chip.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-10-28, 01:50:

There is only one BIOS installed at a time.

Looking at the RetroWeb, it looks like there were BIOS options from both AMI and Award for this particular motherboard: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/msi-ms-6156-bx11#bios

If you wanted to replace the BIOS, you'd need to reflash the BIOS chip.

Okay, cool. Looking at the BIOS again, it looks to be the AMI BIOS, which is 1.20. Sadly, it doesn't look like my brother has his external floppy drive anymore, so I'm not going to be able to transfer the files from my main PC to a disk. Or make any MS-DOS startup disks. I guess I'll have to invest in an external floppy drive, too.

It’s not too bad either get one of the fancy gotek’s or a real floppy an external drive might not work very well it’s hit and miss with legacy usb tho they are only £25 ish the first 2 are awkward to get hold of

Greywolf1 wrote on 2024-10-28, 15:17:

It’s not too bad either get one of the fancy gotek’s or a real floppy an external drive might not work very well it’s hit and miss with legacy usb tho they are only £25 ish the first 2 are awkward to get hold of

An emulator floppy drive, huh? First I've heard of those.

The problem is though, it would need to be connected to my retro PC, right? Via a molex and ribbon IDE? I don't have any spare now; there's only enough for the DVD drive, floppy, and HDD. ^^;

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-10-28, 15:27:

An emulator floppy drive, huh? First I've heard of those.

The problem is though, it would need to be connected to my retro PC, right? Via a molex and ribbon IDE? I don't have any spare now; there's only enough for the DVD drive, floppy, and HDD. ^^;

It would be connected via the FDD cable. Most FDD cables should have connectors for 2 floppy drives. Does your BIOS support two drives? (edited: after looking in the manual, it looks like it does).

If you need an additional Molex connector for power, there are splitters/pass-through options available.

You could also just temporarily replace your existing floppy drive with a Gotek, do all the file copying/transfers you need to, then put the original drive back.

I was lucky my p4 systems supported legacy usb so external floppy worked for me but stops working as soon as I install win 98 works fine in xp managed to get my hands on a real floppy drive tho so it’s more practical swapping floppies between my work horse and projects

turn the computer on, stop the fans from spinning.
You will quickly find out if its a fan thats making the noise.
You will also find out the best way to stop a fan spinning without hurting yourself, and maybe what happens to electric motors when you force it to stop spinning.
You will also find out if its coil whine of not.

Not the way I would do it.
I would disconnect the fans before I power the machine up and see if it makes the noise. As its only for a few seconds the lack of a fan shouldnt make to much of a difference.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-10-28, 18:59:

turn the computer on, stop the fans from spinning. You will quickly find out if its a fan thats making the noise. You will also […]
Show full quote

turn the computer on, stop the fans from spinning.
You will quickly find out if its a fan thats making the noise.
You will also find out the best way to stop a fan spinning without hurting yourself, and maybe what happens to electric motors when you force it to stop spinning.
You will also find out if its coil whine of not.

Not the way I would do it.
I would disconnect the fans before I power the machine up and see if it makes the noise. As its only for a few seconds the lack of a fan shouldnt make to much of a difference.

I didn't even think of that. I'll try recording a before and after video, too.

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-10-28, 19:04:

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-10-28, 18:59:

turn the computer on, stop the fans from spinning. You will quickly find out if its a fan thats making the noise. You will also […]
Show full quote

turn the computer on, stop the fans from spinning.
You will quickly find out if its a fan thats making the noise.
You will also find out the best way to stop a fan spinning without hurting yourself, and maybe what happens to electric motors when you force it to stop spinning.
You will also find out if its coil whine of not.

Not the way I would do it.
I would disconnect the fans before I power the machine up and see if it makes the noise. As its only for a few seconds the lack of a fan shouldnt make to much of a difference.

I didn't even think of that. I'll try recording a before and after video, too.

Dont stop them with your fingers.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-10-28, 19:21:

Dont stop them with your fingers.

Oh no, don't worry. I mean, I'm stupid, but I'm not that stupid. 😉 😜

Okay, here's with the fan disconnected. I believe the other fan is the GPU:

https://imgur.com/1mi2IqW

And with it back on:

https://imgur.com/1jKNoej

What you can hear in the first is mostly the hard disk spinning, there is also elements of the PSU fan, which given its age and the amount of dirt on it isnt that bad.
The second video you can hear all of the above plus the CPU fan spinning, which is on its last legs as far as bearings go. Its moribund.

A clean of the PSU should see that right, and a straight replacement of the CPU fan will make it good.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-10-28, 19:50:

What you can hear in the first is mostly the hard disk spinning, there is also elements of the PSU fan, which given its age and the amount of dirt on it isnt that bad.
The second video you can hear all of the above plus the CPU fan spinning, which is on its last legs as far as bearings go. Its moribund.

A clean of the PSU should see that right, and a straight replacement of the CPU fan will make it good.

Okay. I'm thinking of replacing the PSU though as it's very generic. Not very powerful either. I think it's only 86W. 12A on the 5V rail and 10A on the 3.3V.

I'm not sure if I'll be able to replace the fan, to be honest. I don't even know how. But I've seen some Pentium IIIs on eBay and they're not that much, to be fair.

A straight swap out might work, but there is no saying that the new one will be quiet.

If youre not confident to try and clean it yourself then you already have the answer to that, but it is a matter of removing the PSU from the system and stripping down the PSU.
The CPU fan is easier, in that all you have to do is figure out what size fan you have and source a replacement.

I will say before you start that the noise of the system is part and parcel of the hobby of old computers though. They were not the quiet machines you have today, and if noise is a problem the quieter the fans the louder the HDD will seem.

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-10-28, 12:46:

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-10-28, 01:50:

There is only one BIOS installed at a time.

Looking at the RetroWeb, it looks like there were BIOS options from both AMI and Award for this particular motherboard: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/msi-ms-6156-bx11#bios

If you wanted to replace the BIOS, you'd need to reflash the BIOS chip.

Okay, cool. Looking at the BIOS again, it looks to be the AMI BIOS, which is 1.20. Sadly, it doesn't look like my brother has his external floppy drive anymore, so I'm not going to be able to transfer the files from my main PC to a disk. Or make any MS-DOS startup disks. I guess I'll have to invest in an external floppy drive, too.

I would go for an internal floppy emulator (that should use a 4 pin floppy power connector and the floppy cable on the motherboard, not IDE) rather than an external floppy drive.

One thing to understand about PCs, unlike Macs - until, really, USB 2.0 came along in, oh, 2003-4 or so, PC expansion was expected to be internal. Sure, laptops had weird improvised arrangements for external floppies sometimes, but the general presumption would be that your floppy drive was an internal drive using a traditional IBM-compatible floppy controller, your optical drive would be PATA, etc. Same things with modems or removable storage like Zip or Jaz drives - there may have been external options, but the standard, default option consistent with the PC philosophy would have been internal. That's why all the cases back then had tons of drive bays, expansion slots, etc.

And in particular, about floppies - every desktop machine would have had a standard internal floppy until, oh, 2003 or so. I forget when people like Dell started making floppies optional.

One example of this - Windows XP's installer supports a very small number of external USB floppy drives, otherwise you are out of luck for your F6 floppy.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-10-28, 21:39:

A straight swap out might work, but there is no saying that the new one will be quiet. […]
Show full quote

A straight swap out might work, but there is no saying that the new one will be quiet.

If youre not confident to try and clean it yourself then you already have the answer to that, but it is a matter of removing the PSU from the system and stripping down the PSU.
The CPU fan is easier, in that all you have to do is figure out what size fan you have and source a replacement.

I will say before you start that the noise of the system is part and parcel of the hobby of old computers though. They were not the quiet machines you have today, and if noise is a problem the quieter the fans the louder the HDD will seem.

Yeah, that possibility does concern me. I've blasted it with compressed air and used some Isopropyl and a cotton bud to clean the blades. I will look into the fan replacement, though I will also try the BIOS change/upgrade and see if it gives me an option to control the speed.

VivienM wrote on 2024-10-28, 21:59:

I would go for an internal floppy emulator (that should use a 4 pin floppy power connector and the floppy cable on the motherboa […]
Show full quote

I would go for an internal floppy emulator (that should use a 4 pin floppy power connector and the floppy cable on the motherboard, not IDE) rather than an external floppy drive.

One thing to understand about PCs, unlike Macs - until, really, USB 2.0 came along in, oh, 2003-4 or so, PC expansion was expected to be internal. Sure, laptops had weird improvised arrangements for external floppies sometimes, but the general presumption would be that your floppy drive was an internal drive using a traditional IBM-compatible floppy controller, your optical drive would be PATA, etc. Same things with modems or removable storage like Zip or Jaz drives - there may have been external options, but the standard, default option consistent with the PC philosophy would have been internal. That's why all the cases back then had tons of drive bays, expansion slots, etc.

And in particular, about floppies - every desktop machine would have had a standard internal floppy until, oh, 2003 or so. I forget when people like Dell started making floppies optional.

One example of this - Windows XP's installer supports a very small number of external USB floppy drives, otherwise you are out of luck for your F6 floppy.

I'll have to check inside it again to see if there's a spare floppy power connector and motherboard cable, but I have a suspicion there aren't any spare.

I mean, I don't tend to use floppies much, so I don't mind an external drive, and if that's easier with it being plug and play, that would seem like the more logical option to go for. But as I'll need to get a bigger ribbon with more connectors, I'll probably get another floppy cable as well. Then again, a replacement PSU should have some additional cables. 😀

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-10-28, 22:46:

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-10-28, 21:39:

A straight swap out might work, but there is no saying that the new one will be quiet. […]
Show full quote

A straight swap out might work, but there is no saying that the new one will be quiet.

If youre not confident to try and clean it yourself then you already have the answer to that, but it is a matter of removing the PSU from the system and stripping down the PSU.
The CPU fan is easier, in that all you have to do is figure out what size fan you have and source a replacement.

I will say before you start that the noise of the system is part and parcel of the hobby of old computers though. They were not the quiet machines you have today, and if noise is a problem the quieter the fans the louder the HDD will seem.

Yeah, that possibility does concern me. I've blasted it with compressed air and used some Isopropyl and a cotton bud to clean the blades. I will look into the fan replacement, though I will also try the BIOS change/upgrade and see if it gives me an option to control the speed.

There wont be any option to control the speed in the BIOS. You might try a program like SpeedFan, but over the years of use I found that was hit and miss as to it actually controlling the fans speed.

The only time you should be controlling the speed of the fan like that is when you are monitoring the temp on a regular basis and so can turn it up when it needs to be.
A fan that runs quite would also be the best option when controlling its noise.