DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-10-28, 12:46:

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-10-28, 01:50:

There is only one BIOS installed at a time.

Looking at the RetroWeb, it looks like there were BIOS options from both AMI and Award for this particular motherboard: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/msi-ms-6156-bx11#bios

If you wanted to replace the BIOS, you'd need to reflash the BIOS chip.

Okay, cool. Looking at the BIOS again, it looks to be the AMI BIOS, which is 1.20. Sadly, it doesn't look like my brother has his external floppy drive anymore, so I'm not going to be able to transfer the files from my main PC to a disk. Or make any MS-DOS startup disks. I guess I'll have to invest in an external floppy drive, too.

you can flash the bios through usb if your board will boot from it, use rufus with freedos then put uniflash on it along with your bios make a backup of your original bios first, i usually make at least 2 backups, i stopped using floppys ages ago, usb is much quicker and more reliable, also if you need more molex for a floppy/gotek just get a molex splitter and a molex to 4pin.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-10-28, 23:22:

There wont be any option to control the speed in the BIOS. You might try a program like SpeedFan, but over the years of use I found that was hit and miss as to it actually controlling the fans speed.

The only time you should be controlling the speed of the fan like that is when you are monitoring the temp on a regular basis and so can turn it up when it needs to be.
A fan that runs quite would also be the best option when controlling its noise.

speedfan is an option though he wil probably be constantly fiddling with the settings, ive got an Asus HP board after replacing the HP bios with one from a similar asus board it broke fan control so the cpu fan would spin at over 4000rpm, speedfan helped but getting it working perfectly was impossible, as it would spin up all over the place, i've decided the best option is to get a fan contoller for the front bay or even one for a single fan that goes in the back panel like this one,

the other option i was thinking of as you said is finding a fan that spins at a lower rpm like 600.

DudeFace wrote on 2024-10-29, 05:57:

you can flash the bios through usb if your board will boot from it, use rufus with freedos then put uniflash on it along with yo […]
Show full quote

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-10-28, 12:46:

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-10-28, 01:50:

There is only one BIOS installed at a time.

Looking at the RetroWeb, it looks like there were BIOS options from both AMI and Award for this particular motherboard: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/msi-ms-6156-bx11#bios

If you wanted to replace the BIOS, you'd need to reflash the BIOS chip.

Okay, cool. Looking at the BIOS again, it looks to be the AMI BIOS, which is 1.20. Sadly, it doesn't look like my brother has his external floppy drive anymore, so I'm not going to be able to transfer the files from my main PC to a disk. Or make any MS-DOS startup disks. I guess I'll have to invest in an external floppy drive, too.

you can flash the bios through usb if your board will boot from it, use rufus with freedos then put uniflash on it along with your bios make a backup of your original bios first, i usually make at least 2 backups, i stopped using floppys ages ago, usb is much quicker and more reliable, also if you need more molex for a floppy/gotek just get a molex splitter and a molex to 4pin.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-10-28, 23:22:

There wont be any option to control the speed in the BIOS. You might try a program like SpeedFan, but over the years of use I found that was hit and miss as to it actually controlling the fans speed.

The only time you should be controlling the speed of the fan like that is when you are monitoring the temp on a regular basis and so can turn it up when it needs to be.
A fan that runs quite would also be the best option when controlling its noise.

speedfan is an option though he wil probably be constantly fiddling with the settings, ive got an Asus HP board after replacing the HP bios with one from a similar asus board it broke fan control so the cpu fan would spin at over 4000rpm, speedfan helped but getting it working perfectly was impossible, as it would spin up all over the place, i've decided the best option is to get a fan contoller for the front bay or even one for a single fan that goes in the back panel like this one,

The attachment Lamptron CP120 PCI Fan Controller.jpg is no longer available

the other option i was thinking of as you said is finding a fan that spins at a lower rpm like 600.

Having messed about with all that stuff in the past these days I find it much better to just swap the fan out.
There are some nice quiet running fans these days. All he needs to do is swap it out and call it a day.
Especially as the HDD noise is always going to be there unless he swaps out for a CF card.
In which case he was always better off going for a thin client.

DudeFace wrote on 2024-10-29, 05:57:

you can flash the bios through usb if your board will boot from it, use rufus with freedos then put uniflash on it along with yo […]
Show full quote

you can flash the bios through usb if your board will boot from it, use rufus with freedos then put uniflash on it along with your bios make a backup of your original bios first, i usually make at least 2 backups, i stopped using floppys ages ago, usb is much quicker and more reliable, also if you need more molex for a floppy/gotek just get a molex splitter and a molex to 4pin.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-10-28, 23:22:

There wont be any option to control the speed in the BIOS. You might try a program like SpeedFan, but over the years of use I found that was hit and miss as to it actually controlling the fans speed.

The only time you should be controlling the speed of the fan like that is when you are monitoring the temp on a regular basis and so can turn it up when it needs to be.
A fan that runs quite would also be the best option when controlling its noise.

speedfan is an option though he wil probably be constantly fiddling with the settings, ive got an Asus HP board after replacing the HP bios with one from a similar asus board it broke fan control so the cpu fan would spin at over 4000rpm, speedfan helped but getting it working perfectly was impossible, as it would spin up all over the place, i've decided the best option is to get a fan contoller for the front bay or even one for a single fan that goes in the back panel like this one,

The attachment Lamptron CP120 PCI Fan Controller.jpg is no longer available

the other option i was thinking of as you said is finding a fan that spins at a lower rpm like 600.

That PCI fan controller looks like a cool idea. Do you have to hook something up to the CPU/motherboard and then just slot it into a PCI bay? Is that a knob you can then turn to adjust the speed?

Sadly, I don't believe there's an option in the BIOS to load from a USB. I'll have to check again, but I'm pretty sure there isn't.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-10-29, 11:51:

Having messed about with all that stuff in the past these days I find it much better to just swap the fan out. There are some ni […]
Show full quote

Having messed about with all that stuff in the past these days I find it much better to just swap the fan out.
There are some nice quiet running fans these days. All he needs to do is swap it out and call it a day.
Especially as the HDD noise is always going to be there unless he swaps out for a CF card.
In which case he was always better off going for a thin client.

Looking at the manual, it looks... complicated. ^^; Again, not something I'm familiar with. Though I'm all for learning new things I'm interested in. But wouldn't the heatsink need to be replaced as well? Isn't the fan part of it? Or is that a separate attachment? I'm not seeing any listings on eBay just for the fan. It's either the entire CPU or the heatsink and fan together.

See, that floppy emulator looks and sounds like a great tool/idea. However, surely that's going to be quite a modern looking thing for something that's retro? ^^;

Also, no. No option to boot from a USB. I tried it, but no. The only devices it lists are IDE 0-3, LS-120, ATAPI Zip, SCSI, and Network.

Okay, scratch that. The fan would be a piece of piss to replace. 🤣 The tricky part is finding the appropriate size.

Even if I replaced it though, wouldn't I just get the same problem? It sounds to be as though it's running at full speed.

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-10-29, 13:23:

Okay, scratch that. The fan would be a piece of piss to replace. 🤣 The tricky part is finding the appropriate size.

Even if I replaced it though, wouldn't I just get the same problem? It sounds to be as though it's running at full speed.

What is the size of the fan? If it's a standard 40mm or 60mm, it should be easy to replace. Non-standard sizes are trickier, although I've found that there a lot of ways to jerry-rig fans onto heatsinks.

For example, here's a 60mm fan I mounted to the top of a Pentium II 300 heatsink with zip-ties:

Insofar as noise, modern fans like Noctua's are designed to run quiet. They are much quieter than older fans.

You can also resistors to slow down fans and thus reduce noise. Noctua fans usually include a few adapter cables that are basically in-line resistors designed to slow them down.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-10-29, 14:17:

What is the size of the fan? If it's a standard 40mm or 60mm, it should be easy to replace. Non-standard sizes are trickier, al […]
Show full quote

What is the size of the fan? If it's a standard 40mm or 60mm, it should be easy to replace. Non-standard sizes are trickier, although I've found that there a lot of ways to jerry-rig fans onto heatsinks.

For example, here's a 60mm fan I mounted to the top of a Pentium II 300 heatsink with zip-ties:

The attachment Pentium II-300 ATX setup.jpg is no longer available

Insofar as noise, modern fans like Noctua's are designed to run quiet. They are much quieter than older fans.

You can also resistors to slow down fans and thus reduce noise. Noctua fans usually include a few adapter cables that are basically in-line resistors designed to slow them down.

I think it's a standard 50mm one?

I'll try finding a Noctua fan. Thanks for the suggestion. 😀

EDIT: Yeah, so it's just under 5cm/50mm

EDIT 2: So this should be fine. Just not big on the colour:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Noctua-NF-A4x10-Prem … 30212533&sr=8-3

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-10-29, 11:51:

Having messed about with all that stuff in the past these days I find it much better to just swap the fan out. There are some ni […]
Show full quote

Having messed about with all that stuff in the past these days I find it much better to just swap the fan out.
There are some nice quiet running fans these days. All he needs to do is swap it out and call it a day.
Especially as the HDD noise is always going to be there unless he swaps out for a CF card.
In which case he was always better off going for a thin client.

yeah replacing the fan is the easiest option as long as he doesnt buy a dirt cheap one, i bought one from my local computer shop for £3 it was an absolute piece of shite i threw it in the bin it was so loud, if its still to noisy for him then a fan controller is his best bet, as for noisy hdd's thas just part of the experience also lets you know that the hdd actually doing something, if he switches to a CF card he'll need to get a clicker.🤣

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-10-29, 12:54:

That PCI fan controller looks like a cool idea. Do you have to hook something up to the CPU/motherboard and then just slot it into a PCI bay? Is that a knob you can then turn to adjust the speed?

Sadly, I don't believe there's an option in the BIOS to load from a USB. I'll have to check again, but I'm pretty sure there isn't.

nothing plugs into the cpu/motherboard, just plug a molex into the controller for power then plug ur fans into that, knob adjusts speed/noise,
as for booting from usb, format ur usb as fat32, select freedos in rufus, select options "partition scheme to MBR"," target system set to bios", check the box for "use rufus bios ID" leave the dropdown box set to default,

in your bios enable anything related to USB, unplug all other drives, cd/hdd/floppy to make sure the computer doesnt try to boot from one of those, and just have ur usb plugged in, hopefully should boot to freedos.

DudeFace wrote on 2024-10-29, 22:18:

yeah replacing the fan is the easiest option as long as he doesnt buy a dirt cheap one, i bought one from my local computer shop […]
Show full quote

yeah replacing the fan is the easiest option as long as he doesnt buy a dirt cheap one, i bought one from my local computer shop for £3 it was an absolute piece of shite i threw it in the bin it was so loud, if its still to noisy for him then a fan controller is his best bet, as for noisy hdd's thas just part of the experience also lets you know that the hdd actually doing something, if he switches to a CF card he'll need to get a clicker.🤣

nothing plugs into the cpu/motherboard, just plug a molex into the controller for power then plug ur fans into that, knob adjusts speed/noise,
as for booting from usb, format ur usb as fat32, select freedos in rufus, select options "partition scheme to MBR"," target system set to bios", check the box for "use rufus bios ID" leave the dropdown box set to default,

in your bios enable anything related to USB, unplug all other drives, cd/hdd/floppy to make sure the computer doesnt try to boot from one of those, and just have ur usb plugged in, hopefully should boot to freedos.

I don't think I'll mind the HDD too much. I remember those rattling off on our earlier PCs. That's usually much quieter than a fan that's running at full whack. 😀

And cool, regarding the controller. I do happen to have one molex connector spare. Or are we talking about one of those mini spox connectors? I'm not sure what you mean by 'freedos in rufus', I'm afraid. ^^;

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-10-29, 23:06:

I don't think I'll mind the HDD too much. I remember those rattling off on our earlier PCs. That's usually much quieter than a fan that's running at full whack. 😀

People usually don't mind the occasional "crunching" noise that old HDDs produce while reading/writing data. In fact, some find this charming and nostalgic.

However, the constant "whirring" noise that HDDs make while their platters are spinning is a different matter entirely. The intensity of this varies by HDD model, its RPM speed and how worn out the mechanical parts are. To me, this noise is unbearable on old 7200 RPM IDE drives, and it's the main reason why I use CF cards or SSDs in most of my retro builds.

To test how much noise your HDD makes, turn off the PC, unplug the molex power connector from the HDD, then turn the system back on. If there's an audible difference, you may want to replace it. But again, this is subjective, and doesn't bother everyone as much.

My fix? turn up the sound! 😉
Thats only 1/2 a joke. On the serios side I can understand noise been an issue if the PC's on the desk.
but if its under the desk and you're playing games I find you soon grow deaf to the noise unless its really like worn bearings, and even then, it'll soon blend into the background.
although I'm the kind of person that still finds modern computers unnaturally quiet and like to at least hear a fan going.

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-10-29, 23:06:

I don't think I'll mind the HDD too much. I remember those rattling off on our earlier PCs. That's usually much quieter than a fan that's running at full whack. 😀

And cool, regarding the controller. I do happen to have one molex connector spare. Or are we talking about one of those mini spox connectors? I'm not sure what you mean by 'freedos in rufus', I'm afraid. ^^;

rufus is the program to make a bootable USB stick, in the boot selection drop down menu, select FreeDos, which is essentially an open source free version of MS-Dos,

as for hard drive noise ive got a load of old drives and mostly it doesnt bother me, ive got one 4gb seagate drive from my pc i had in 98 it makes some really cool old hdd sounds, ive got another 500gb sata drive from 2006 and it whirs up and down constantly and makes a really annoying ticking sound every few seconds, that one actually pisses me off, worst thing is it radiates heat, it gets way hotter than any cpu/gpu, not good if your trying to keep temps down, thats the only real reason to avoid old drives.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-10-30, 05:02:

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-10-29, 23:06:

I don't think I'll mind the HDD too much. I remember those rattling off on our earlier PCs. That's usually much quieter than a fan that's running at full whack. 😀

People usually don't mind the occasional "crunching" noise that old HDDs produce while reading/writing data. In fact, some find this charming and nostalgic.

However, the constant "whirring" noise that HDDs make while their platters are spinning is a different matter entirely. The intensity of this varies by HDD model, its RPM speed and how worn out the mechanical parts are. To me, this noise is unbearable on old 7200 RPM IDE drives, and it's the main reason why I use CF cards or SSDs in most of my retro builds.

I love the clicking and whirring sounds of HDDs. My "Ultimate" Win98 PC has a 10RPM WD Velicoraptor drive in it. Love it! I am less fond of fan noise though. I would eliminate that if I could

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-10-30, 05:02:

People usually don't mind the occasional "crunching" noise that old HDDs produce while reading/writing data. In fact, some find this charming and nostalgic.

However, the constant "whirring" noise that HDDs make while their platters are spinning is a different matter entirely. The intensity of this varies by HDD model, its RPM speed and how worn out the mechanical parts are. To me, this noise is unbearable on old 7200 RPM IDE drives, and it's the main reason why I use CF cards or SSDs in most of my retro builds.

To test how much noise your HDD makes, turn off the PC, unplug the molex power connector from the HDD, then turn the system back on. If there's an audible difference, you may want to replace it. But again, this is subjective, and doesn't bother everyone as much.

Thanks for the tip. I'll give that a try and see. I know what you mean about the whirring though. I still have a couple of mechanical HDD in my main PC and one or both do it every so often that it's annoying. It stands out due to how quiet the rest of the machine is. I am hoping to replace them with SSDs eventually. And I aim to get an M.2 for the C drive and one for the big games where asset streaming happens a lot.

chinny22 wrote on 2024-10-30, 05:56:

My fix? turn up the sound! ;) Thats only 1/2 a joke. On the serios side I can understand noise been an issue if the PC's on the […]
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My fix? turn up the sound! 😉
Thats only 1/2 a joke. On the serios side I can understand noise been an issue if the PC's on the desk.
but if its under the desk and you're playing games I find you soon grow deaf to the noise unless its really like worn bearings, and even then, it'll soon blend into the background.
although I'm the kind of person that still finds modern computers unnaturally quiet and like to at least hear a fan going.

I think I've been spoilt by how quiet modern PCs are nowadays. ^^; But sadly this retro build is in the spare room and is on top of a makeshift desk/chest of drawers.

DudeFace wrote on 2024-10-30, 08:43:

rufus is the program to make a bootable USB stick, in the boot selection drop down menu, select FreeDos, which is essentially an open source free version of MS-Dos,

as for hard drive noise ive got a load of old drives and mostly it doesnt bother me, ive got one 4gb seagate drive from my pc i had in 98 it makes some really cool old hdd sounds, ive got another 500gb sata drive from 2006 and it whirs up and down constantly and makes a really annoying ticking sound every few seconds, that one actually pisses me off, worst thing is it radiates heat, it gets way hotter than any cpu/gpu, not good if your trying to keep temps down, thats the only real reason to avoid old drives.

Ahh, I see. Cool. I take it that allows you to make a bootable USB for any OS?

The one noise I do like from old PCs is the sound floppy disk drives make when you first turn the machine on. 😁

For the floppy emulator, is Gotek the one that's most recommended? I don't see any listed in the UK. And there aren't any beige ones either.

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-10-30, 12:00:

For the floppy emulator, is Gotek the one that's most recommended? I don't see any listed in the UK. And there aren't any beige ones either.

This maybe?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/126366132159?mkcid … emis&media=COPY

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-10-30, 12:00:

For the floppy emulator, is Gotek the one that's most recommended? I don't see any listed in the UK. And there aren't any beige ones either.

Gotek is the standard. And there should be ones generally available including in the UK. They're pretty ubiquitous devices.