Looks nice. Seems about the same quality as my 1902 that I did the analog RGB restore mod on.

maxtherabbit wrote on 2024-12-04, 21:03:

Looks nice. Seems about the same quality as my 1902 that I did the analog RGB restore mod on.

Yeah, the quality is definitely as good (or better) as I hoped for.

The only thing that I'm somewhat confused by is that it seems like I have to load the Trident VGA BIOS from DOS in order to get VGATV to produce an appropriate signal to the 1084S. I'm not sure why this is, and it feels like the on-board VGA card BIOS should suffice?

maxtherabbit wrote on 2024-11-25, 22:05:

You can buy a readymade GBS-Control these days. Probably still the best option for you. Using the VGATV TSR as mentioned is a great tool to play certain games in "native" 15kHz, but it is too finicky of a solution for me to recommend it as a primary display

I completely overlooked this comment.

When I borrowed a GBS control a while ago it was kinda ass and didn’t seem to work with most of my devices and the hdmi port was unidirectional. (I definitely have uses for hdmi as an input to vintage 15khz devices and the other way round)

Not sure if any universal prebuilt GBS Control units handle bidirectional (15khz RGB sync, vga and hdmi and svideo for commodore would be nice). I’ve seen units with and without control dials which to me are a must considering the amount of variation in image dimensions and centering.

Are any of the fully built units debugged and have ALL the options in bidirectional?

I’ve found them for years for $20-$65 but they always are missing something

Does anybody happen to know if the Commodore 1048S monitors that were sold in Europe and other PAL regions can also take 60Hz input? Or are they limited to 50Hz video?

digger wrote on 2024-12-10, 12:16:

Does anybody happen to know if the Commodore 1048S monitors that were sold in Europe and other PAL regions can also take 60Hz input? Or are they limited to 50Hz video?

Commodore 1702 has H/V-Hold knobs and can be adjusted to both 50Hz/60Hz timings just fine (als has H/V-size knobs).
The green monitors I have are the same.

Edit: PAL60 support was a thing on VCRs, I think. To watch US American film cassettes.
So it's not as if 60 Hz was unheard of in the 1980s.

Edit: A 50Hz limit did merely exist for those TVs with a sole aerial connector.
They didn't have a V-Hold knob that was accessible from the outside.
Portable TVs might have been an exception here.

digger wrote on 2024-12-10, 12:16:

Does anybody happen to know if the Commodore 1048S monitors that were sold in Europe and other PAL regions can also take 60Hz input? Or are they limited to 50Hz video?

I can confirm my 1084 perfectly synchs (without any pot adjustments) on 60Hz //e NTSC signal, no color of course. Why do you ask? To my personal standards due to its CRT this monitor is of an average quality, suits mainly 8-bit computers. The 80-column text on mine is still readable but I don't like CRT's convergence. I don't know how it was new, I saved it from local aftermarket for 3 euros couple of years ago. I am puzzled by this long topic. Still thanks to it I noticed its RGB inputs, and figured out it may probably suit a //GS in analogue mode. Just have to add a simple synch separator. For younger people that rarely see CRT any CRT monitor may be interesting, though.

digger wrote on 2024-12-10, 12:16:

Does anybody happen to know if the Commodore 1048S monitors that were sold in Europe and other PAL regions can also take 60Hz input? Or are they limited to 50Hz video?

On my UK spec 1084S in UK, I ran NTSC mode on my A1200 for the framespeed boost. It could also sync monochrome CGA, don't know if it had NTSC color capability or whether it was using PAL encoding in NTSC switched mode on A1200. Vertical hold had to be adjusted, I think I managed to get it to where NTSC was about to roll, at one side and PAL was about to roll the other, and each would sync but you'd get one roll sometimes when screen mode switched or blanked. Anyway, saved fiddling with vertical hold between times.

digger wrote on 2024-12-10, 12:16:

Does anybody happen to know if the Commodore 1048S monitors that were sold in Europe and other PAL regions can also take 60Hz input? Or are they limited to 50Hz video?

Here is a very good run-down of the various monitors that Commodore put their label on over the years, including a lot of 1084 ones.

The point of directing you to that site is mostly to show that they used 1084 for a fuckton of different monitors and configurations, making it hard to give any blanket answer to your question.

boggit wrote on 2024-12-12, 16:35:

digger wrote on 2024-12-10, 12:16:

Does anybody happen to know if the Commodore 1048S monitors that were sold in Europe and other PAL regions can also take 60Hz input? Or are they limited to 50Hz video?

Here is a very good run-down of the various monitors that Commodore put their label on over the years, including a lot of 1084 ones.

The point of directing you to that site is mostly to show that they used 1084 for a fuckton of different monitors and configurations, making it hard to give any blanket answer to your question.

I will have to take a pic of my 1992 Era Magnavox Stereo monitor with the much more modern case design that was used with Amigas.

I believe it was sometimes also badged commodore/amiga but nothing in your list resembles it.

Considering Amiga was basically dead in the US in 1992 I am guessing it was overlooked

boggit wrote on 2024-12-12, 16:35:

digger wrote on 2024-12-10, 12:16:

Does anybody happen to know if the Commodore 1048S monitors that were sold in Europe and other PAL regions can also take 60Hz input? Or are they limited to 50Hz video?

Here is a very good run-down of the various monitors that Commodore put their label on over the years, including a lot of 1084 ones.

The point of directing you to that site is mostly to show that they used 1084 for a fuckton of different monitors and configurations, making it hard to give any blanket answer to your question.

I think same. Commodore wasn't quite a quality company, but more of an opportunist.
Money/profits first, users second. That's why I have a bit of a love and hate relationship with it.

Which makes life rather hard for me, though, because my home country is full of Commodore lovers. But that's another story.

Thing is, Commodore monitors were made by a dozen manufacturers or were built using parts of a dozen manufacturers, at least.

That's why it's so hard to categorize Commodore and its products so much.
And especially the 1084 monitor existed in numerous variants, I think.

There are a few things like the Commodore 1702 monitor (was used in TV stations) which turned out to be venerable and worth to be held in high regards,
while simultanously there are such crappy, yet closely related things such as the C64 or 1541 that are a bug feast.

Same thing with the PC line, I think. The PC bridge boards made by Commodore itself were horrible and limited (MDA/CGA only - no Hercules, CPU socket blocked by daughter board etc).
The Commodore models PC10-III and up were cheaply built (in comparison to something HQ like an IBM PC, Olivetti M24, Siemens PCD etc), highly-integrated and limited in features.

Same time, though, the original PC-10 with the split motherboard was made using higher quality parts (even in comparion to older PC-5 maybe).
The PC chassis wasn't distracting, either. It was simple, yet elegant in its own way. It didn't was grasphing for attention, which is good.

Unfortunately, that early PC had an non-IBM MDA (!) text-only video card instead of an MGA/Hercules clone (later models had AGA card). So it was of little use when it was sold new. It was a better CP/M machine, that's all.
The original 1984/1985 Commodore BIOS was on PC level, rather than PC/XT level (no HDD boot/Option ROMs).

So really, it's hard to make a statement. *Some* Commodore products were fine, objectifly speaking.
Despite Commodore being such a cheap company. Like a cross between Toys'R'me/MacMickey's. ;)

Edit: What I meant to say: With Commodore it's hit and miss. The label itself doesn't say very much. The underlying hardware can differ quite some bit.

Edit: I also didn't mean bash the C64. Some models, like Commodore 128D (or 128DCR) had included C64 circuitry that was more reliable or of higher overall quality.
The internal 128D disk drive was free of the many 1541 bugs, for example.
C64 compatible floppy drives by third-party manufacturers were often fine, too, even though they had been based on a different on-board computer.

Edit: The reason why I'm so hard on Commodore is because Commodore itself often measured against IBM. The name “CBM” is based on IBM.
That's why I'm comparing Commodore with IBM in terms of quality, too.