Sombrero wrote on 2025-01-01, 19:56:

There are Ivy Bridge USB 3.0 drivers for Windows 7 but at least for me they have caused all kinds of issues like lock ups. Maybe the motherboard has been the culprit and the drivers are fine, but unless I see someone saying USB 3 works fine on their Ivy motherboard I'm going to assume USB 3 is only stable starting with Haswell.

For me, USB 3.0 always worked fine under Win7 on my MSI Z77A-G43 (MS-7758).

I've had that motherboard since 2013, and I've been using USB 3.0 external hard drives pretty much from the beginning. No issues whatsoever under Win7 using the official drivers from the MSI website. Also, they still host WinXP drivers for that motherboard there as well. As you say, the USB 3.0 ports work in USB 2.0 mode under WinXP.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-01-01, 20:23:

For me, USB 3.0 always worked fine under Win7 on my MSI Z77A-G43 (MS-7758).

I've had that motherboard since 2013, and I've been using USB 3.0 external hard drives pretty much from the beginning. No issues whatsoever under Win7 using the official drivers from the MSI website.

Oh, then it must have been either specifically my motherboard or the drivers I'm pretty sure I got from Intel's website, maybe they were newer and had some kind of issue or something like that.

Either way good to know there's nothing wrong with Ivy's USB 3.0!

Sombrero wrote on 2025-01-01, 17:20:

That's a Sandy Bridge motherboard, so PCIe 2.0 and DDR3 1333MHz. Ivy Bridge motherboard would give you PCIe 3.0 and DDR3 1600MHz.

Not that of a big deal, but since it's intended to be a ultimate build why not go the extra mile. If you just haven't seen an Ivy micro atx motherboard with WinXP drivers straight from the manufacturer Asus P8Z77-M would be one option.

I'd forgotten that I have an Asrock P67 Extreme motherboard. That's obviously still only a PCIe 2.0 board, but I could use that in my XP/Vista build to have SLI'd GTX 250s rather than a single GTX 285 (Both of which are PCIe 2.0)... I'm torn. I know not all games support SLI, and it can cause issues. But, I think the performance could be potentially better than the 285 whilst keeping the same 1Gb VRAM and DirectX 10 support. Another possibility is to try to get another of the 285 GPUs and SLI them. Can always disable SLI for any games that it's a problem for...

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2025-01-01, 00:16:

I benchmarked the card and got 5017 in 3DMark 99. In Unreal I got 43 FPS at 1024x768. This was using driver 5.32

So I have moved the Geforce 2 GTS, which is now confirmed to be 128-bit, from via Via Apollo Pro 133 motherboard with Pentium III 800Mhz. It is now in the Intel 815 Chipset motherboard and now scores 6010 in 3DMark 99. That's a 20% improvement. In Unreal I now get 54FPS which about a 25% improvement.

Obviously not a like-for-like comparison of chipset, as CPU is about 16.5% faster in terms of clock speed. But happy with the improvement anyway. I have a Geforce 2 GTS 64 on the way from ebay. Perhaps will make a difference to performance at 1024x768 32-bit with Deus Ex, as right now performance was poor. Low teens FPS. 16 bit was OK though. Though, perhaps that game will perform better with the Voodoo 3500 build. Not sure if the game is better with A3D or EAX.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2025-01-04, 10:26:

Perhaps will make a difference to performance at 1024x768 with Deus Ex, as right now performance was poor. Low teens FPS. 16 bit was OK though. Though, perhaps that game will perform better with the Voodoo 3500 build.

Deus Ex is extremely taxing on the CPU, especially in large outdoor areas. In fact, the very first level (Liberty Island) is probably the most demanding area in the game. Don't expect 60 FPS there without a 1.4 GHz CPU (or better), regardless of the graphics card.

Indoors, the situation should be a lot better, and even a Voodoo 3 can reach 60 FPS at 800x600. You can see the difference if you start the tutorial level, which takes place entirely indoors. Check this thread for more details: Is Deus Ex supposed to be so slow in Glide?

Not sure if the game is better with A3D or EAX.

Deus Ex has full 5.1 surround sound when using EAX, if you have the appropriate speakers hooked up of course. I haven't played it much with A3D 2.0 though, so I can't really say which API is better in that game.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-01-04, 10:33:

Deus Ex is extremely taxing on the CPU, especially in large outdoor areas. In fact, the very first level (Liberty Island) is probably the most demanding area in the game. Don't expect 60 FPS there without a 1.4 GHz CPU (or better), regardless of the graphics card.

Indoors, the situation should be a lot better, and even a Voodoo 3 can reach 60 FPS at 800x600. You can see the difference if you start the tutorial level, which takes place entirely indoors. Check this thread for more details: Is Deus Ex supposed to be so slow in Glide?

Yeah, I know it's a hard game on period correct hardware. But since it supports EAX there's quite a few more powerful PCs that I will be able to play it on.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-01-04, 10:33:

Deus Ex has full 5.1 surround sound when using EAX, if you have the appropriate speakers hooked up of course. I haven't played it much with A3D 2.0 though, so I can't really say which API is better in that game.

I think I will have 2.1 speakers (or headphones) for my retro PC cupboard. Technically it is a 4.1 speaker set, but I think I will only use stereo due to using audio mixers to allow all PCs to connect to the speakers. I have two 8 channel mixers and 10 PCs to hook up to it. All 10 machines will have one channel connected to the sound card. The 6 MSDOS capable machines with CD drive will have one channel for CD Audio also. That's assuming of course that I can daisy chain two KVMs to support more than the 8 channels my current one supports.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2025-01-04, 11:08:

I think I will have 2.1 speakers (or headphones) for my retro PC cupboard.

That's fair enough, and mostly period correct. Still, if you haven't already done so, you may want to check out this thread of mine: List of Win9x games with surround sound support

BTW, back in 1998 when EAX was first released, Creative introduced it using Unreal and a set of Cambridge SoundWorks 4.0 speakers. It was a showcase of what their new technology could achieve. In fact, Unreal's sound positioning works properly even with 7.1 speakers (technically 7.0) when using the latest official patch.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-01-04, 11:18:

That's fair enough, and mostly period correct. Still, if you haven't already done so, you may want to check out this thread of mine: List of Win9x games with surround sound support

BTW, back in 1998 when EAX was first released, Creative introduced it using Unreal and a set of Cambridge SoundWorks 4.0 speakers. It was a showcase of what their new technology could achieve. In fact, Unreal's sound positioning works properly even with 7.1 speakers (technically 7.0) when using the latest official patch.

Hmm. That's a much longer list of games supporting surround sound than I anticipated...

Maybe I will have to think about adding support for 4.0 speakers to some of the PCs. I can't add it to all of them (and indeed most won't have soundcards supporting it anyway). Maybe can add support to a few of them if I free up some channels on the powered 8 channel mixers by mixing the soundcard/CD audio with passive mixers before it hits the powered 8 channel mixers. I have a 3 or 4 of those passive mini mixers. Like this:

The powered ones are these:

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2025-01-04, 12:28:

Maybe can add support to a few of them if I free up some channels on the powered 8 channel mixers by mixing the soundcard/CD audio with passive mixers before it hits the powered 8 channel mixers.

Actually, just thinking. That won't work. I need one mixer for the rear speakers. So maybe what I will do is just use one of those passive mixers for the rear channels. That would mean 4 of the PCs can support 4.0. Any loss of quality caused by the passive mixer is less important for rear channels

I have seen 5.1 speaker sets from the noughts, home ent mini setups rather than PC targetted, that have 4 analog and optical and spdif on. But even the more common 2 or 3 analog input ones, you can just have stereo mixer on one of the analogs for all the older/basic stuff and three options for surround hookup.

BitWrangler wrote on 2025-01-04, 15:43:

I have seen 5.1 speaker sets from the noughts, home ent mini setups rather than PC targetted, that have 4 analog and optical and spdif on. But even the more common 2 or 3 analog input ones, you can just have stereo mixer on one of the analogs for all the older/basic stuff and three options for surround hookup.

Thanks. I hadn't considered those. Would probably sound better than what I am using, but I am very space limited in how big the speakers and controls can be. The Cambridge Soundworks 4.0 speakers are about as big as I can go, and the volume control is on a lead, which suits me. The volume control will be mounted on the keyboard tray.

You can see from this photo that the speakers sit on the pullout keyboard/mouse tray. They fit with only millimeters to spare.

Aa shown, the 8 input mixers will be mounted vertically I think (though slightly elevated from where they currently rest), but haven't decided yet. I am thinking that the volume mix levels will need to change infrequently so doesn't matter too much if I have to stand up to access some. Probably will have the CD audio channels on the top mixer and maybe the Pocket 8086 and Psuedo 386 sound outputs also.

BTW, this cupboard is still being built. It is not painted properly yet, not all shelves are in place etc. I am putting PCs in there now just to get a feel for how it works before finalising the layout.

The KVM, currently, is mounted inside the cupboard, at the back, where it can't even be seen. I think that isn't an issue, as can switch between inputs by double tapping Scroll lock on keyboard and typing number.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2025-01-01, 16:51:

Ultimate Win XP / Linux Web Browsing 16Gb DDR3 RAM ASUS P8H61-M with i7 3770k @3.9Ghz (April 2012) Geforce GTX 980 Ti 6Gb (June […]
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Ultimate Win XP / Linux Web Browsing
16Gb DDR3 RAM
ASUS P8H61-M with i7 3770k @3.9Ghz (April 2012)
Geforce GTX 980 Ti 6Gb (June 2015)
Creative Sound Blaster X-FI

Changed my mind on this one. 980 Ti I think may be overkill, so I have instead bought MSI 970 Gaming 4gb. I bought two for £45 each with 5yr warranty from CEX:

. Not planning to SLI them, as I want to put in MicroAtx Case. Just bought both, so I have a spare. They have been sitting in that store for months and I was starting to feel sorry for them. 😀

I think that given that I am not going top end with the graphics card, then probably little point to having a Z77 motherboard either. So will stick with what I have for now. Can always change my mind later if these parts drop in price.

The ASUS P8H61-M was £18. So with the 970 the total is £63. If I went for Z77 motherboard and 980 Ti it probably would be at least double the cost.

Hmm. Spoke to soon. An MSI 980 Ti Lightning popped up on ebay for £70 delivered. I think this was MSI's flagship 900 series card. It looks lovely. I couldn't resist:

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2025-01-05, 16:00:

Hmm. Spoke to soon. An MSI 980 Ti Lightning popped up on ebay for £70 delivered. I think this was MSI's flagship 900 series card. It looks lovely. I couldn't resist:

If you do get both the 970 and the 980 Ti, could you compare their fan noise levels? Doesn't have to be a scientific measurement in dB, just your subjective opinion.

I'm asking because I have that exact MSI 970 4GB card and it's been reasonably quiet even under full load. Upgrading to a 980 Ti is a possible consideration for me as well, though not so much for WinXP gaming, but more so for early Win7 titles.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-01-05, 16:27:

If you do get both the 970 and the 980 Ti, could you compare their fan noise levels? Doesn't have to be a scientific measurement in dB, just your subjective opinion.

Yes, no problem. I think I do have a sound level meter in the garage. I will have a look.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-01-05, 16:27:

If you do get both the 970 and the 980 Ti, could you compare their fan noise levels? Doesn't have to be a scientific measurement in dB, just your subjective opinion.

Just been looking at a review of the 980 ti Lightening. Probably should have done that before buying, but it was an impulse buy. Lol. Anyway, looks to be a good choice according to techpowerup review:

MSI's GTX 980 Ti Lightning is the pinnacle of GTX 980 Ti design. It comes with the highest clocks out of the box, boosts higher than any other GTX 980 Ti I tested, runs cooler and is quieter than any competing GTX 980 Ti while doing so. MSI's engineers delivered the perfect product.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/msi-gtx-98 … ghtning/28.html

Just considering that I have skipped Win2k and WinME in my planned retro builds. Are there any advantages to adding these with regards to game compatability? If so, to which builds should I add it as a dual boot option. I don't think there's any need for specific builds for these OSes is there?

Back in the day I skipped ME due to negative press coverage and I only used Win2k for work.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2025-01-06, 10:47:

Just considering that I have skipped Win2k and WinME in my planned retro builds. Are there any advantages to adding these with regards to game compatability?

WinME is fine, I use it for most of my Win9x builds where booting to pure DOS isn't needed. It takes some tuning to get it set up properly (e.g. disable System Restore) but I found it to be pretty stable after that.

As for advantages, it natively supports disabling mouse pointer acceleration. From what I gather, Win98SE can do this too via some registry tweaks, but I like how easily accessible the option is under WinME. For reference, I'm using a modern Logitech G403 HERO gaming mouse for my Win9x builds, so I need this setting to be turned off.

Another small advantage is that you get USB storage support out of the box, while you need to install NUSB under Win98SE. Also, some late VIA chipset drivers have errors while installing under Win98SE (still works fine after a reboot) while they install without a hitch under WinME.

As for Win2K, it's basically a lighter version of WinXP. I've used it for gaming in the past, and it worked well enough. But nowadays, I don't see a practical reason to favor it over WinXP, unless you're using a less powerful PC. That said, Win2K does have official Voodoo 3 driver support, which can be nice for testing purposes.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-01-06, 11:02:

WinME is fine, I use it for most of my Win9x builds where booting to pure DOS isn't needed. It takes some tuning to get it set up properly (e.g. disable System Restore) but I found it to be pretty stable after that.

I seem to recall reading that there is a way to bring back pure DOS support. But I have never tried it obviously.

Most of my builds have stated that I want DOS support. Mostly for the ability to try different sound cards and wavetable boards.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-01-06, 11:02:

As for advantages, it natively supports disabling mouse pointer acceleration. From what I gather, Win98SE can do this too via some registry tweaks, but I like how easily accessible the option is under WinME. For reference, I'm using a modern Logitech G403 HERO gaming mouse for my Win9x builds, so I need this setting to be turned off.

Another small advantage is that you get USB storage support out of the box, while you need to install NUSB under Win98SE. Also, some late VIA chipset drivers have errors while installing under Win98SE (still works fine after a reboot) while they install without a hitch under WinME.

Sounds to me though that possibly not worth bothering with for my case?

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-01-06, 11:02:

As for Win2K, it's basically a lighter version of WinXP. I've used it for gaming in the past, and it worked well enough. But nowadays, I don't see a practical reason to favor it over WinXP, unless you're using a less powerful PC. That said, Win2K does have official Voodoo 3 driver support, which can be nice for testing purposes.

This may be interesting for the High End Win98 (2000-2003) / Very Early XP (2001-2003) build. I could triple boot.

The Voodoo III support, while interesting, I think is negated by the fact that my motherboards that are compatible with it, would be running a CPU that's rather slow for Win2k? Also glide popularity was on the decline I think by the time Win2k came out. I think it is one to try on my test bench at least. I will still have quite a bit of hardware that doesn't end up in one of these permanent builds, including a Voodoo 3000.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2025-01-06, 11:25:

The Voodoo III support, while interesting, I think is negated by the fact that my motherboards that are compatible with it, would be running a CPU that's rather slow for Win2k? Also glide popularity was on the decline I think by the time Win2k came out. I think it is one to try on my test bench at least. I will still have quite a bit of hardware that doesn't end up in one of these permanent builds, including a Voodoo 3000.

Actually maybe could try Win2k on the Voodoo 3500 / PIII 700Mhz build as a second boot option.