Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-01-20, 15:51:

paatudos wrote on 2025-01-20, 15:34:

What do you suggest for best EAX experiment ? […]
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What do you suggest for best EAX experiment ?

option 1. modern 5.1 or 7.1 modern headphones ?
option 2. real 7.1 or 5.1 system with speakers & amplifier ?
option 3. just good stereo headphones ?

Avoid option 1, as that's not needed for EAX. Just get a pair of good quality stereo headphones (e.g. something from Sennheiser) and you're good to go. The EAX and CMSS-3D algorithms will take care of all the positional audio processing. But if you're like me, and find wearing headphones for a longer time period uncomfortable, go for 5.1 or 7.1 speakers instead.

This is assuming an actual Creative Labs sound card is used of course. I can't speak for on-board audio solutions from other manufacturers, or for software emulation.

Thank you very much! 😀 I will use good stereo headphones, its good since currently not much space for 5.1 setup.

Uhm, so.. a short while ago dsoal changed how 3D and panning effects behave together.
Which is not occlusions but, you know? It seems something quite big nonetheless, and it'd be cool if you could test r626.

paatudos wrote on 2025-01-20, 15:34:

Funny that you still need these old gaming setups to experience the original intended gameplay, since there's no EAX on steam/gog.

This sentence doesn't even make sense.
I suppose there might be a very few mysteriously unlucky exceptions (splinter cell on GOG being the one that comes to my mind) but stores have nothing to do with games features.

mirh wrote on 2025-01-29, 03:19:

Uhm, so.. a short while ago dsoal changed how 3D and panning effects behave together.
Which is not occlusions but, you know? It seems something quite big nonetheless, and it'd be cool if you could test r626.

I had some time to test r626 today.

It causes Baldur's Gate 2 to crash on startup.

R.I.P. ( Audigy 2zs )
Guys I have used the Audigy 2zs since Win98.( 1998 ) until today.
It is Arguably the Best Sound card for Win-98 thru Win-XP
It still works today even in Win-10 and Win-11 just use the Audigy RX driver for Win-10
I use to love this sound cards Crystal Clarity, Voice, treble and bass.

But I don’t use it anymore.
Today I use the USB Sound Blaster Creative GC7 Dac which takes your PC Audio to Another level.
It sounds so much better than the Audigy 2zs that I don’t use the Audigy 2zs anymore.

For all of you that like these sound blaster cards I highly recommend you check out these New Creative DAC’s
They are Better than ever. Easy to setup, Works with PC and Mac ( Plug & Play )

link:
https://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-gc7

Paired with these headphones makes your PC Audio sound like Studio Grade Audio.
Link:
https://www.amazon.com/OneOdio-PRO1030-DJ-Hea … T1zcF9hdGY&th=1

//Removed picture spam

is it possible to enable EAX audio for windows xp era games with this USB Sound Blaster Creative GC7 ?

JayAlien wrote on 2024-12-16, 04:51:

Auzentech x-fi Forte. If you’re trying to track down an Auzentech card, this is the one to go for. The SNR is crazy, and the card is significantly louder than the Creative x-fi cards.

There is a very simple and intelligible rule - the impedance of the headphones should be 10 times the output impedance of the amplifier.
Auzentech has a low-impedance headphone amplifier.
Creative (even Titanium HD) does not.
There resistance is 32 Ohms.
Only high-impedance Sennheiser will sound normal with Creatives.
Correct, but quiet.

PS.
Space marine 2 on X-fi with CMSS3D is awesome.
Stalker 2 - is sucks

shevalier wrote on 2025-02-14, 11:56:

There is a very simple and intelligible rule - the impedance of the headphones should be 10 times the output impedance of the am […]
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JayAlien wrote on 2024-12-16, 04:51:

Auzentech x-fi Forte. If you’re trying to track down an Auzentech card, this is the one to go for. The SNR is crazy, and the card is significantly louder than the Creative x-fi cards.

There is a very simple and intelligible rule - the impedance of the headphones should be 10 times the output impedance of the amplifier.
Auzentech has a low-impedance headphone amplifier.
Creative (even Titanium HD) does not.
There resistance is 32 Ohms.
Only high-impedance Sennheiser will sound normal with Creatives.
Correct, but quiet.

PS.
Space marine 2 on X-fi with CMSS3D is awesome.
Stalker 2 - is sucks

Fair enough, I am not a sound engineer. I just think compared to most headphone at this price of $30
These headphones sound great and at this price it’s hard to beat this Sound Quality.
I must not be the only one that thinks these sound pretty good as they are a best seller on Amazon.
They are pretty good build quality, light, comfortable, closed back, and go pretty loud.
They sound pretty good as long as you don’t max out the volume but they go pretty loud without distortion.
paired with these NEW Creative DAC’s this is a BIG improvement over the Audigy 2zs sound card
These NEW Creative DACs sound great and they Work with PC / Macs offically but can be made to work with just about any computer
As they have a mobile / console switch with does not require a software driver.

What model headphones do you recommend ?
I am always looking for a Best Quality Value Product and Deal.

//Removed picture spam

I just scored a X-Fi fatality champion PCI for 20 euros including shipping. This would be one of the best if not the best Windows XP sound card.
What games do you recommend to test EAX 5.0 under XP with a 2.1 setup - unfortunately I have no room for a 5.1 surround system?

nd22 wrote on 2025-02-20, 07:33:

I just scored a X-Fi fatality champion PCI for 20 euros including shipping. This would be one of the best if not the best Windows XP sound card.
What games do you recommend to test EAX 5.0 under XP with a 2.1 setup - unfortunately I have no room for a 5.1 surround system?

That's a great card and you got it for a very good price! I would suggest using a pair of quality headphones instead of stereo speakers if possible, as that would give you a better experience overall, and much more precise positional audio. As for the games, it depends on which genre you're interested in. Take a look at the EAX games list on our wiki and pick out the ones you like. Here are some popular ones that make good use of EAX 5.0:

• Quake 4
• Prey
• BioShock
• Unreal Tournament 3
• Battlefield 2
• Colin McRae: Dirt

My personal recommendation is to replay some of the favorite games from your youth. Sometimes, you'll be surprised how much better they sound with EAX enabled.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-02-20, 08:00:

My personal recommendation is to replay some of the favorite games from your youth. Sometimes, you'll be surprised how much better they sound with EAX enabled.

Thank you for your suggestions! I am going to try it in Quake 4, I love that game - I know it's weird!
That is exactly what I've been doing in the last 15 years! The newest game I played is Battlefield bad company 2 from 2010.

Card arrived and installed successfully into one of the Windows XP system! I do not like wearing headphones so I used the altec lansing 2.1 system.
Played one round of Battlefield 2 last night and it sounds awesome!!

nd22 wrote on 2025-02-22, 10:06:

Card arrived and installed successfully into one of the Windows XP system! I do not like wearing headphones so I used the altec lansing 2.1 system.
Played one round of Battlefield 2 last night and it sounds awesome!!

Congrats!

And yeah, Battlefield 2 (and also Battlefield 2142) make excellent use of EAX 5.0. In fact, those games have an "Ultra High" audio setting which is only available on X-Fi cards. You can read how the developers of Battlefield 2 utilized various EAX features in this article.

Can you tell the EAX difference in Bioshock ? So far from my experience the only difference is the amount of simultaneous sounds played together because reverbs are already handled by the engine itself

SansPlomb95 wrote on 2025-02-23, 08:44:

Can you tell the EAX difference in Bioshock ? So far from my experience the only difference is the amount of simultaneous sounds played together because reverbs are already handled by the engine itself

I haven't tested BioShock with EAX disabled, but maybe someone else can chime in on that.

That said, there are two archived pages on Creative's website which contain some info regarding the EAX implementation in that game. See here and also here. This tidbit from the second page might be relevant to your question:

Creative Labs wrote:

Non-OpenAL audio solutions If you don't have an OpenAL compatible card installed, or your sound card drivers or OpenAL run-time […]
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Non-OpenAL audio solutions
If you don't have an OpenAL compatible card installed, or your sound card drivers or OpenAL run-time are obsolete, then you might encounter problems with BioShock's sound when the "Use Creative EAX Audio" is set to "ON". Some people have reported stuttering or crackling sound.

In this situation, OpenAL is still trying to process 3D audio for you, but it can't find a working OpenAL hardware device. On a Windows XP system, it will instead look for a DirectSound3D sound card on your PC. OpenAL can pass the game's audio instructions onto DirectSound3D. The quality of 3D audio you will hear might not be great - 3D positioning and reverb quality may be compromised, and at worst the sound may be distorted.

If there is no DirectSound3D device, or you are running Windows Vista which doesn't support DirectSound3D hardware sound, then OpenAL's software mixer will take over. The OpenAL software mixer currently has not been optimized for BioShock.

So, if you don't have a fully OpenAL compatible hardware solution, usually the best solution is to try the game with "Use Creative EAX Audio" set "ON" and then "OFF" and see which sounds better! When the setting is "OFF", you'll hear the default audio mixer which ships with BioShock. Without a proper OpenAL sound card, this might be your best bet. It doesn't have hardware grade sample-rate conversion, state-of-the-art HRTF algorithms for headphone and 2-speaker 3D, or hardware accelerated reverb. But it does support features like reverb and 3D panning on 5.1 and 7.1 systems.

I played last night the very first level of Quake 4 with the X-fi using a 2.1 altec lansig system. I know there are much better 5.1 setups out there but my caveman corner is only 4 sqm.
It sounds really awesome. I know Quake 4 gets much hate but I love this game. It has a single player campaign, fixed enemy placements, you get a squad with you most of the time, everything I like.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-02-23, 09:00:

SansPlomb95 wrote on 2025-02-23, 08:44:

Can you tell the EAX difference in Bioshock ? So far from my experience the only difference is the amount of simultaneous sounds played together because reverbs are already handled by the engine itself

I haven't tested BioShock with EAX disabled, but maybe someone else can chime in on that.

My rig was working fine and I could hear the slight difference between on and off, it looks like even the promotions of that time didn't have much to say about what EAX brings compared to the basic render either.

I noticed that games with X-RAM support load samples in OGG format (vorbis?)
Does this mean hardware decoding OGG on X-Fi chip?

Hi everyone, please accept one more EAX/Creative fan here! Joseph and others have already helped/encouraged me on adding a X-Fi Xtreme Gamer card to my SFF XP build and it has opened a whole new world for me to explore as I'm coming, like probably many others, from using back in the golden days the integrated motherboard audio and meh speakers (my only dedicated card ever was an Awe64).

I've been slowly experiencing all this (sadly not much free time lately) and I just wanted to give my first impressions:
- I love positional audio, and CMSS-3D is a decent implementation. On modern builds I've tinkered with alternatives like Razer Surround, Dolby Headphones, etc, but I feel they force too much the positional audio, stressing my ear channels. CMSS-3D is subtler but then gentler.
- EAX effects are very welcomed, on games I know by heart having that extra layer of realism really adds to the experience. Once you're used to the reverb on rooms and the sound of steps over different materials, going back to playing without them make the experience very sterile.
- But this card has also shown me a audiophile side of gaming I had never imagined. Having always used bad quality soundcards I assumed gaming sound didn't deserve any better, but oh boy sound quality on games vary as much from titlte to tile as it does on music albums. From DOS games that use MOD or CD music to more modern ones with high quality music tracks and sound effects, I'm totally rediscovering the sound of many games. I've used a pair of Creative Gigaworks T40 for more than 12 years and I'm simply amazed of how they sound now. And never being a fan of using headphones for gaming, I happen to have one Audiotechnica M70x, with a pretty plain response, and pairing them with this soundcard is a match made in heaven. Sound quality and lack of background noise have probably surprised me even more than EAX effects and positional audio, but the combination of everything is something I didn't expect before buying this card.

One of the games I wanted to try was the Quake3 build with A3D support, and it worked but with completely distorted effects. Think of random doppler effects and extreme reverbs. Then I tried Unreal Tournament 99 and had the same experience. I spent some days trying to understand, until I saw the post on this thread about NFS4 and the distortion when passing under a bridge, and that's exactly the kind of effect I'm talking about. So that problem with old games and WDM drivers on Windows 98 is sadly also happening on XP and X-Fi drivers. In Unreal Tournament 99 at least applying the EAX patches the problem is solved, although now I'd like to compare the quality of both implementations. This hobby is a learning adventure that never ends. At least now that I have finally found the answer, I can focus on enjoying more modern games.

mgtroyas wrote on 2025-03-04, 15:59:

- EAX effects are very welcomed, on games I know by heart having that extra layer of realism really adds to the experience. Once you're used to the reverb on rooms and the sound of steps over different materials, going back to playing without them make the experience very sterile.

Heh, that's also how I feel about most games with EAX on vs. off. For example, I played Prince of Persia: Sands of Time on my WinXP rig last year, with full EAX effects of course. Then, out of curiosity, I fired up the PlayStation 3 remaster to see how the new textures look. Obviously, the PS3 version didn't have EAX, and the environments sounded exactly as you describe them - sterile. Similarly, going from OG Doom 3 with EAX 4.0 to the later BFG Edition (which has no EAX) felt like a huge downgrade for me.

One of the games I wanted to try was the Quake3 build with A3D support, and it worked but with completely distorted effects.

A3D is a different beast entirely, and what little support Creative cards have for it is very underwhelming. Sure, you might be able to tick the box which enables it in some games, but that won't sound anything like a genuine Aureal card running under Win98. For Quake 3 in particular, you pretty much need an Aureal Vortex 2 (i.e. the AU8830 chip) to experience its A3D 2.0 implementation properly. It's similar with Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force, which uses the same engine.

So that problem with old games and WDM drivers on Windows 98 is sadly also happening on XP and X-Fi drivers.

In my experience, X-Fi cards work great with games released from 2002 onward, meaning during the WinXP era. Anything older than that is probably better suited for a Win9x system.

mgtroyas wrote on 2025-03-04, 15:59:

- But this card has also shown me a audiophile side of gaming I had never imagined. Having always used bad quality soundcards I assumed gaming sound didn't deserve any better

Sadly majority of people also thought the same. Spending endless money on upgrading graphics cards over while using crappy PC speakers on bacic AC97 soundcards.
Personally, I always valued the sound, maybe because I couldnt afford upgrading my GPU every year or more but also good qualility sound and music really helps you enjoy a game.

Depending on your games and space I would really recomend another Win9x build around an Aureal Vortex 2 card. So you can enjoy A3D 2.0 as well and compare how the "other side" sounded.
You can have both cards in 1 system but it's tricky with drivers trying to override each other.
They were also long gone by the time XP was released and the drivers are a bit buggy so for best results Win9x is the safe choice.