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Socketing a soldered DS12887A chip

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Reply 40 of 60, by multiplebaboons

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This is becoming a documented case of a pretty idiotic failure. Long story short, I managed to "fix" the chip and solder the socket, but there was too much solder in two of the pin holders, which I did not notice. The chip went in, but felt kind of funny, took it back out, two really bent pins, not really sure if wicking will take care of those pin holders, certainly feels like this might be it...

Reply 41 of 60, by myne

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Probably best not to learn on something you want to keep.
But those old things are remarkably tough.
Straighten, add fresh solder to the holes, wick, it'll probably be fine.

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Reply 42 of 60, by multiplebaboons

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myne wrote on 2025-07-31, 08:06:

Probably best not to learn on something you want to keep.
But those old things are remarkably tough.
Straighten, add fresh solder to the holes, wick, it'll probably be fine.

Yeah, straightening the pins wasn't the issue. The issue is that my $6.99 Chinesium iron can't handle pins that are connected to the ground plane and those are the same pins I had trouble with all along. The joint looks completely cold, I hold the tip for too long, but the solder actually ends up trickling to the top of the socket, if that makes sense. Talk about not having the right tools...

Reply 43 of 60, by mkarcher

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multiplebaboons wrote on 2025-07-31, 02:42:
myne wrote on 2025-07-31, 02:20:

Multimeter will confirm.

Which is yet again something i don't own... A good one would be over a hundred bucks, no?

While your chinesium $6.99 soldering iron is not up to every retrocomputing task, a $6.99 chinesium multimeter does most of the stuff you will ever need for fixing computers. As long as you don't intend to measure in mains wiring, you don't have to care about electrical safety. When buying a meter for fixing low voltage electronics, the only thing I would pay a premium for is a good responsive continuity buzzer. Everything else is good enough even in the cheapest meters.

Reply 44 of 60, by multiplebaboons

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mkarcher wrote on 2025-07-31, 21:15:

While your chinesium $6.99 soldering iron is not up to every retrocomputing task, a $6.99 chinesium multimeter does most of the stuff you will ever need for fixing computers. As long as you don't intend to measure in mains wiring, you don't have to care about electrical safety. When buying a meter for fixing low voltage electronics, the only thing I would pay a premium for is a good responsive continuity buzzer. Everything else is good enough even in the cheapest meters.

Makes sense. What about a semi-decent cheap iron?

Reply 45 of 60, by TheMobRules

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multiplebaboons wrote on 2025-07-31, 21:32:

Makes sense. What about a semi-decent cheap iron?

I've been using a Pinecil for a few years now and it has been able to handle even the more complex jobs beautifully. Very cheap, comfortable, temperature control, heats up really fast, open source firmware and even supports TS100 tips so you've got a lot of options there. Just make sure you use a decent power supply that is able to provide the required volts/amps for the iron to run at full power.

Reply 46 of 60, by multiplebaboons

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TheMobRules wrote on 2025-07-31, 23:02:

I've been using a Pinecil for a few years now and it has been able to handle even the more complex jobs beautifully. Very cheap, comfortable, temperature control, heats up really fast, open source firmware and even supports TS100 tips so you've got a lot of options there. Just make sure you use a decent power supply that is able to provide the required volts/amps for the iron to run at full power.

I was hoping for something that came with a power supply. Consider a total noob who did his last serious soldering in 2005. 😉

Reply 47 of 60, by mkarcher

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multiplebaboons wrote on 2025-07-31, 21:32:

Makes sense. What about a semi-decent cheap iron?

I spent like 20 minutes browsing soldering irons and soldering stations on Amazon, but I don't think I saw anything I can recommend as "semi-decent" below 50€/50$. You need at least 30W to 40W power at 300°C to not get the problems you are facing with your current iron. I own one of those ultra-cheap "60W" chinesium irons, and I am sure I would have struggled desoldering any pin connected to a bigger plane with that thing, possibly you have a similar iron. Actually, that iron belongs to a friend, and I bought that one as replacement because his old equally cheap 15W iron broke down while I was using it. That iron is not his only iron, and this is for a good reason. I am not at all convinced of the quality of that thing. While it might be a good thing for heat transfer that the changable tip is directly pressed to the ceramic heating element, the whole construction looks flimsy, brittle and delicate, and I am afraid this thing breaks easily. While browsing Amazon, likely 30% to 50% of the cheap irons use that construction. They are advertised as "having a powerful ceramic heating element heating the tip directly", and often they point out "4 holes for efficient cooling", while I have no idea why you even would want cooling. Maybe the idea is that only the tip is supposed to get hot, but not the handle, so you need some cooling.

Furthermore, the supposed 60W is kind-of a lie. You don't actually want an iron that permanently draws 60W, because it will get too hot, and burn flux, solder and PCB unless you are continously soldering stuff to ground planes. Any 60W iron you want to use for electronics soldering needs to reduce the power when it is at operating temperature. There are two ways to do that, though: The cheap one is a "PTC heating element". This kind of heating element is made from a material that gets hogher resistance when it get warm, so while it might take 60W at room temperature, it will drop to something like 15W at 350°C. The sensible way to drop power when the iron is hot is actually measuring the tip temperature and electronically regulating the heating power to keep the temperature. The cheap irons with digital temperature display might have an element that does not reduce power by itself when it gets hot, and use electronics to drop the power if required (and automatically increase the power when it is required, like soldering thick wires or ground planes). Do not assume that the cheapest irons with a temperature dial actually have a regulator. The "60W" iron I know has a dial (and you need a magnifying glass to read the scale of that dial), but all it seems to do is reducing overall power of the iron, like if you would use a dimmer. The temperatures printed at the dial might in fact be the equilibrium temperature the iron reaches after a couple of minutes at that settings if you don't solder anything.

So, what you should have:

  • Kind of durable build quality. You don't want something that breaks the third time you try to use it. Reject products with 10% 1-star reviews indicating "bad quality", "broke after 3 month", "already broken as deliverd" and the like.
  • 25W to 35W unregulated (and no PTC heater!) or a higher power with regulation. The friend I bought the "60W" iron as replacement for also has an unregulated 30W iron I use whenever I know that I require some power. That iron gets too hot if left continously on and soldering just IC pins to small traces. I use that iron at a switchable power outlet, and manually turn off the iron for one or two connections when I notice it gets too hot. That's why I can't recommend unregulated irons above 35W unless you are experienced enough to recognize whether the temperature is too high or too low by looking at the way the solder flows while soldering and manually pulsing the iron.
  • Not just a pointy tip. The heat needs to flow through the tip, and small pointy tips are so thin that they do not conduct heat very well. Tips like that are perfectly suited to solder SMD ICs to small traces, but soldering an electrolytic cap on a Pentium II mainboard that has both pins connected to power planes on the mainboard with a small pointy tip is impossible, even if the iron goes up to 450°C at the heater and could deliver up to 60W. You want a chisel-type tip as well for the purchase to make sense.

I'm afraid I didn't find anything that matches these criteria at a "cheap" price. Possibly someone else can chime in with a recommendation in the 40-60$ range, if that price is acceptable for you at all. I suspect there are suitable products at that price point, but finding them without knowing some model/vendor names to look for is very difficult. Also, some Amazon reviews I read indicated counterfeit products imitating semi-decent brands, while being lowest quality, so watch out for "insanely cheap offers". Those offers are likely not real.

Reply 48 of 60, by multiplebaboons

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I am certain that the garbage you're describing is exactly what I have, now at an even lower price: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B098JD8HD3?ref=ppx_ … asin_title&th=1

This is what I am left with, will not touch anything until y'all have spoken. I did drive to Micro Center again to exchange the regular 40-60 solder for the correct low-melt paste. The two encircled holders are definitely solder-filled, there was a third one, not sure which. I could actually test this by inserting another socket into this one and pins that find resistance will pop out. Thoughts on what to do next?

Reply 49 of 60, by myne

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Uh... low melt is specifically for removing/cleaning.
You solder a bit on a hole you want to clean out or IC you want to remove, it mixes with the existing solder, and pulls/wicks out 10x easier.

You shouldn't use it for soldering.

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Reply 50 of 60, by multiplebaboons

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myne wrote on Yesterday, 06:32:

Uh... low melt is specifically for removing/cleaning.

I got that, I was just saying that I have the paste on hand now, in case I need it.

Reply 51 of 60, by myne

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Ok, so use it on the blocked holes.

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Reply 52 of 60, by multiplebaboons

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myne wrote on Yesterday, 07:11:

Ok, so use it on the blocked holes.

I need to resolder those pins after and I don't think I should do that with my iron.

Reply 53 of 60, by maxtherabbit

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get a KSGER T12 for $75

hands down the best entry level iron

Reply 54 of 60, by myne

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If you're going to spend that much, a full hot air station +iron can be had for about that.

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Reply 55 of 60, by mkarcher

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multiplebaboons wrote on Yesterday, 06:23:

I am certain that the garbage you're describing is exactly what I have, now at an even lower price: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B098JD8HD3?ref=ppx_ … asin_title&th=1

My one is blue and takes 230V mains voltage, but it is essentially the same design. I used it with a kill-a-watt (well, a comparable European device), so I know what electrical power that thing actually uses. In equilibrium (you let it heat up for 5 minutes), it's around 12 to 16W, and that's insufficient for what you are trying to do. Even directly after plugging, I never saw 60W on the display, so that power is likely only available for the first fraction of a second immediately after applying power.

And I think I paid 12€ for a set of approximately the same size. I didn't have any serious issues working with it yet, but only because I also have a more powerful iron at hand, and I likely wouldn't even think about using that thing on multilayer mainboards, or I would immediately switch to the other iron as soon as I start getting problems desoldering the ground pin. If I only had that iron, I would certainly get mad. You might possibly be able to clear the holes using the chisel tip (the most massive tip delivered in thata set), setting the temperature dial to maximum, and then going slow, but if you plan to buy a better iron and you want to go easy on the board, it's likely the best way to not attempt it. Don't think that using a conical tip is preferred because you could poke it into the hole. The correct way is to completely melt the solder in the hole with the iron held to the edge of the hole, so you can get good access with a solder sucker. If you can't keep the solder inside the hole completely fluid, you don't get enough heat into it, and there is no point in trying to continue.

If you fully know what you are getting into, you already have a powerful iron, and you just need a lightweight secondary iron (e.g. your bigger one is not temperature controlled and gets too hot and is too clumsy for some fine work), I think there is nothing wrong with getting this iron at $3,99. I would not yet toss it, you might actually get good results if you try to attach thin enamelled wire to SMD chips as bodge wires using that iron. But you are definitely correct in getting something more powerful.

For my own hobby workshop, I have the Weller WS81 set, which is clearly good enough, but the current price seems insanely high, I don't think I would by it again at that price, and it is definitely one to two classes above what you should get at the moment.

Reply 56 of 60, by mkarcher

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multiplebaboons wrote on Yesterday, 06:23:

Thoughts on what to do next?

Get a suitable soldering iron. Give up on that damaged socket, use side cutters to cut it into small pieces of 2 to 3 pins each and desolder them separately. Clean the holes, insert a new socket (the type you used is good enough), solder it and then add a DS12887A or a modern clone.

Reply 57 of 60, by multiplebaboons

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Thanks for all the comments. I am thinking to do the following: I have a friend with a proper soldering station and this will be what I will use here, or actually have him do it at this point.

mkarcher wrote on Yesterday, 17:13:

Get a suitable soldering iron. Give up on that damaged socket, use side cutters to cut it into small pieces of 2 to 3 pins each and desolder them separately. Clean the holes, insert a new socket (the type you used is good enough), solder it and then add a DS12887A or a modern clone.

Do you think that simply cleaning the problematic holes would be insufficient?

Reply 58 of 60, by mkarcher

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multiplebaboons wrote on Yesterday, 21:36:

Do you think that simply cleaning the problematic holes would be insufficient?

I'm sorry, I misinterpreted the image. I saw the four missing pins in the socket and assumed that they are due to heat damage. But looking again at them, they look like the spots where a DS12887A does not have pins anyway, so they are missing on purpose. The socket is fine if you can get it cleaned.

Reply 59 of 60, by multiplebaboons

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mkarcher wrote on Yesterday, 22:14:

I'm sorry, I misinterpreted the image. I saw the four missing pins in the socket and assumed that they are due to heat damage. But looking again at them, they look like the spots where a DS12887A does not have pins anyway, so they are missing on purpose. The socket is fine if you can get it cleaned.

I literally pulled the NC pins out of the socket prior to soldering it. 😉