sharangad wrote on 2025-09-23, 15:21:

This is the Audigy RX, which Creative doesn't promote as an Alchemy compatible device. On their site they list the Audigy fx (re […]
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shevalier wrote on 2025-09-23, 14:29:

Honestly, I never knew that the dsound.dll file had sound card IDs written inside it; I thought it was universal. […]
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UCyborg wrote on 2025-09-21, 14:10:

My old desktop can't go beyond 23H2 due to CPU requirements.

Honestly, I never knew that the dsound.dll file had sound card IDs written inside it; I thought it was universal.

It's not entirely relevant, but it's Windows 11 24H2 (26100.6584) + Titanium HD PCIe + Daniel_K driver pack.
The log file doesn't contain any errors, only "Using Native OpenAL Renderer."

This is the Audigy RX, which Creative doesn't promote as an Alchemy compatible device. On their site they list the Audigy fx (realtek based) as being compatible along with the pci audigys and all the x-fis and all the new stuff (z/ae etc) . The rx they promote as a musician's card.

The using "native openal renderer" message is there when using alchemy universal with the rx. It's also there with some games with regular alchemy, but it's preceded by "error initialising dsound using default sound.dll"

[EDIT]
Feedback from someone running a pci Audigy on win11 24h2 might be useful at this point.

We have two Audigy rx users experiencing the problem.

https://danielkawakami.blogspot.com/
Audigy Support Pack 8.1
rename .exe to .zip or .rar or 7z
Extract dsound.dll from Audigy_SupportPack_8_1.exe.7z\Audio\ALchemy\bin .cab\Targetdir
And try

shevalier wrote on 2025-09-23, 16:37:

https://danielkawakami.blogspot.com/ Audigy Support Pack 8.1 rename .exe to .zip or .rar or 7z Extract dsound.dll from Audigy_S […]
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sharangad wrote on 2025-09-23, 15:21:

This is the Audigy RX, which Creative doesn't promote as an Alchemy compatible device. On their site they list the Audigy fx (re […]
Show full quote

shevalier wrote on 2025-09-23, 14:29:

Honestly, I never knew that the dsound.dll file had sound card IDs written inside it; I thought it was universal.

It's not entirely relevant, but it's Windows 11 24H2 (26100.6584) + Titanium HD PCIe + Daniel_K driver pack.
The log file doesn't contain any errors, only "Using Native OpenAL Renderer."

This is the Audigy RX, which Creative doesn't promote as an Alchemy compatible device. On their site they list the Audigy fx (realtek based) as being compatible along with the pci audigys and all the x-fis and all the new stuff (z/ae etc) . The rx they promote as a musician's card.

The using "native openal renderer" message is there when using alchemy universal with the rx. It's also there with some games with regular alchemy, but it's preceded by "error initialising dsound using default sound.dll"

[EDIT]
Feedback from someone running a pci Audigy on win11 24h2 might be useful at this point.

We have two Audigy rx users experiencing the problem.

https://danielkawakami.blogspot.com/
Audigy Support Pack 8.1
rename .exe to .zip or .rar or 7z
Extract dsound.dll from Audigy_SupportPack_8_1.exe.7z\Audio\ALchemy\bin .cab\Targetdir
And try

With NFS HS, no DS3D/EAX only stereo and mono (with the DanielK dsound.dll):

1Loaded G:\Program Files (x86)\Electronic Arts\Need For Speed Road Challenge\DSOUND.ini
2
3
4DirectSoundCreate : Failed to initialize Creative ALchemy, falling back to dsound.dll
5
6Using Native OpenAL Renderer

It's the same with Alice, though the game reports EAX2 as being available.

With Alchemy Universal:

1Loaded G:\Program Files (x86)\Electronic Arts\Need For Speed Road Challenge\DSOUND.ini
2
3
4Using Native OpenAL Renderer

No, it doesn't work with the latest Audigy Support Pack' Alchemy either (that's driver pack I'm using now). But, since it does work with the Universal Patch (1.45.20) and use the Audigy's native OpenAL (so the hardware acceleration works), I can live with that.

shevalier wrote on 2025-09-23, 16:37:

https://danielkawakami.blogspot.com/ Audigy Support Pack 8.1 rename .exe to .zip or .rar or 7z Extract dsound.dll from Audigy_S […]
Show full quote

sharangad wrote on 2025-09-23, 15:21:

This is the Audigy RX, which Creative doesn't promote as an Alchemy compatible device. On their site they list the Audigy fx (re […]
Show full quote

shevalier wrote on 2025-09-23, 14:29:

Honestly, I never knew that the dsound.dll file had sound card IDs written inside it; I thought it was universal.

It's not entirely relevant, but it's Windows 11 24H2 (26100.6584) + Titanium HD PCIe + Daniel_K driver pack.
The log file doesn't contain any errors, only "Using Native OpenAL Renderer."

This is the Audigy RX, which Creative doesn't promote as an Alchemy compatible device. On their site they list the Audigy fx (realtek based) as being compatible along with the pci audigys and all the x-fis and all the new stuff (z/ae etc) . The rx they promote as a musician's card.

The using "native openal renderer" message is there when using alchemy universal with the rx. It's also there with some games with regular alchemy, but it's preceded by "error initialising dsound using default sound.dll"

[EDIT]
Feedback from someone running a pci Audigy on win11 24h2 might be useful at this point.

We have two Audigy rx users experiencing the problem.

https://danielkawakami.blogspot.com/
Audigy Support Pack 8.1
rename .exe to .zip or .rar or 7z
Extract dsound.dll from Audigy_SupportPack_8_1.exe.7z\Audio\ALchemy\bin .cab\Targetdir
And try

Seeing all the compatibility issue troubleshooting and oddly behaving video captures across the whole thread is one of the primary reasons I stopped playing old games on new hardware and/or drivers years ago. It’s not worth figuring out in which driver a feature was broken, added or substituted when using period-correct drivers makes 99% of all headaches vanish completely. Finding said drivers, for some cards, isn’t always easy but when you do find them you’re off the hook, so to speak. After that, only the game can be blamed for any further quirks or issues you encounter.

If I play anything from late ‘98 to 2001, I stick with SB Live and retail drivers CD/Liveware 1.0 to 3.0 drivers. If I play anything EAX 3.0 (starting with Secret Service in late 2001) to EAX 4.0, I use an Audigy/Audigy 2 with either original CD drivers, Audigy driver packs from 2002/2003 or the EAX 4.0 drivers from October 31 2003. I haven’t dabbled much in X-Fi thus far but I personally don’t mind playing 2005(+) games on Audigy 1/2 if I happen to use a PC with said cards installed, as the HRTF and reverb/occlusion/obstruction/panning/morphing/etc. experience is more than solid, generally speaking. I get that you miss out on X-Fi specific enhancements on Live/Audigy 1/2 but I don’t trust newer sound cards with newer drivers to work as intended in games pre-dating them, so I don’t bother.

I know this isn’t the optimistic attitude to have and it doesn’t necessarily help in preservation efforts. The least I can do is capture video and audio from certain EAX-supported games and demonstrate how they are generally meant to behave.

Dipshidian wrote on 2025-09-28, 07:48:

If I play anything from late ‘98 to 2001, I stick with SB Live and retail drivers CD/Liveware 1.0 to 3.0 drivers. If I play anything EAX 3.0 (starting with Secret Service in late 2001) to EAX 4.0, I use an Audigy/Audigy 2 with either original CD drivers, Audigy driver packs from 2002/2003 or the EAX 4.0 drivers from October 31 2003.

That's a solid approach. You can do the same with an X-Fi card by using the original installation CD that shipped with it. We have several of those uploaded on Vogons Drivers. From my experience, those drivers are less prone to issues than the newer versions from Creative's website, especially for PCIe X-Fi Titanium cards.

The least I can do is capture video and audio from certain EAX-supported games and demonstrate how they are generally meant to behave.

I just watched your Thief: Deadly Shadows video and you chose some great levels to showcase the game's EAX functionality. The Hammerite Cathedral and The Cradle in particular have really good effects. Nice work!

@Joseph_Joestar Thanks for the kind words, Joseph! Yeah, it was hard to resist grabbing any extra footage just for the sound experience in Thief 3 alone. It really does sound fantastic and you can get that level of quality (signal-to-noise ratio aside) with just an old smelly Audigy 1. Just wanted to throw that out there because I have seen (though not in this thread) some misinformation across the web regarding the Audigy 1 and EAX 4.0 functionality, with some individuals claiming that EAX 4.0 was only for the Audigy 2. Not true, as there are drivers for both cards from late 2003; ‘aud_eax4drv_031031.exe’ for Audigy and ‘sba2_eax4drv_031031.exe’ for Audigy 2. Multiple Environments works just as great on either one!

Vogons Drivers has been an invaluable resource for grabbing drivers of specific time-frames over the years. Sometimes I have been forced to employ quotation mark searching to find certain older/obscure drivers but that has thankfully been a rare case. I still use a backup hard drive for safekeeping any personally relevant device drivers I come across (because you never know).

Dipshidian wrote on 2025-09-28, 09:53:

I have seen (though not in this thread) some misinformation across the web regarding the Audigy 1 and EAX 4.0 functionality, with some individuals claiming that EAX 4.0 was only for the Audigy 2. Not true, as there are drivers for both cards from late 2003; ‘aud_eax4drv_031031.exe’ for Audigy and ‘sba2_eax4drv_031031.exe’ for Audigy 2. Multiple Environments works just as great on either one!

Yeah, with the updated drivers Audigy 1 and 2 can handle EAX 4.0 just fine. It was nice of Creative to backport that functionality, but very few people seem to know about it.

BTW, I also enjoyed your Thief A3D vs. EAX comparison video. It's a great showcase for both APIs. Do you mind if I link to a few of those in the first post here? It's rare to find recordings made on original hardware nowadays.

@Joseph_Joestar No, I don’t mind it at all! Go ahead and link anything that is to your liking.

Dipshidian wrote on 2025-09-28, 11:38:

No, I don’t mind it at all! Go ahead and link anything that is to your liking.

Cheers! I've added links to your videos for Thief: The Dark Project, System Shock 2, Unreal and Unreal Tournament 2003.

Also, I noticed that you list System Shock 2 as an EAX 2.0 game. Do you have a source for that? I know there's an EAX toggle in the game's audio options, but I couldn't find any reference to it using EAX 2.0 specifically. There were some threads on the TTLG forums discussing the subject, but I haven't seen any official sources which would confirm that EAX 2.0 was used (e.g. an old magazine advert, a developer comment, or an archived copy of the game's website would be good).

@Joseph_Joestar I seem to recall the original CD drivers (from 1998) not working in System Shock 2 when attempting to play the game. This doesn’t necessarily have to mean that the game requires EAX 2.0 drivers, as I could have made a mistake somewhere or it simple requires a driver update for the original EAX 1.0 drivers. You’ve made me curious enough that I should probably look into it. In the meantime, I’ll just change any description and delete any comment I’ve made claiming that SS2 is an EAX2 game.

Dipshidian wrote on 2025-09-28, 14:34:

I seem to recall the original CD drivers (from 1998) not working in System Shock 2 when attempting to play the game. This doesn’t necessarily have to mean that the game requires EAX 2.0 drivers, as I could have made a mistake somewhere or it simple requires a driver update for the original EAX 1.0 drivers. You’ve made me curious enough that I should probably look into it. In the meantime, I’ll just change any description and delete any comment I’ve made claiming that SS2 is an EAX2 game.

Thanks! Feel free to post your findings here if you run across any relevant info. I can update the Vogons Wiki page if it can be confirmed that the game uses EAX 2.0.

On a somewhat related note, it seems that Thief II: The Metal Age only supported EAX 2.0 at launch. According to the patch notes for that game, EAX 1.0 support was added later, in version 1.18. I'm mentioning this because Thief II uses (roughly) the same engine as System Shock 2.

After a bit of testing with the Sound Blaster Live (model CT4620) and System Shock 2, I have come to the following conclusions:

1) With the very first retail CD 4.05.1017 VXD (July 1998) drivers (as found on the CT4620 part 1 CD image on VogonsDrivers), System Shock 2 does not recognize the Live as a hardware accelerated sound card and EAX is greyed out. Only software audio works.

2) With the 4.05.1026 VXD (September 1998) drivers, System Shock 2 detects the Live as a hardware accelerated sound card and EAX is enabled.

This confirms that System Shock 2 is indeed an EAX 1.0 game. Installing EAX 2.0 drivers (4.06.654 VXD) did improve positioning a little bit but I wouldn’t be surprised if this happens to all (?) EAX 1.0 games.

I also tested out the 4.05.1026 VXD drivers in Thief II, in both the 1.07 (retail) and 1.18 (patched) versions of the game, and it did indeed allow EAX 1.0 to be enabled in 1.18. Interestingly, despite EAX being greyed out, hardware acceleration CAN be enabled with the 4.05.1017 VXD drivers in Thief II 1.07, unlike in SS2.

May be interesting to check what saving the report in dxdiag.exe says. With up-to date DirectX on Windows XP at least, I remember it does list some details about supported EAX versions.

Dipshidian wrote on 2025-09-28, 18:24:

2) With the 4.05.1026 VXD (September 1998) drivers, System Shock 2 detects the Live as a hardware accelerated sound card and EAX is enabled.

This confirms that System Shock 2 is indeed an EAX 1.0 game. Installing EAX 2.0 drivers (4.06.654 VXD) did improve positioning a little bit but I wouldn’t be surprised if this happens to all (?) EAX 1.0 games.

Thanks for testing this so extensively!

I also tested out the 4.05.1026 VXD drivers in Thief II, in both the 1.07 (retail) and 1.18 (patched) versions of the game, and it did indeed allow EAX 1.0 to be enabled in 1.18. Interestingly, despite EAX being greyed out, hardware acceleration CAN be enabled with the 4.05.1017 VXD drivers in Thief II 1.07, unlike in SS2.

From what I remember, in those games the "Hardware Acceleration" setting can be enabled on any sound card that supports either DirectSound3D or A3D. But the EAX setting only works if the card specifically supports EAX. It's possible that the developers used Creative's later drivers as a baseline while working on SS2, so their detection routine might target that.

This was something quick 'n' dirty I cobbled together seeing as I was already grabbing footage from the Pentium II 400 system for other reasons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIX63Lgpha4

It's just a simple demonstration of what effect EAX 2.0 drivers can have on EAX 1.0 games, regarding positional audio.

Dipshidian wrote on Yesterday, 21:29:

This was something quick 'n' dirty I cobbled together seeing as I was already grabbing footage from the Pentium II 400 system for other reasons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIX63Lgpha4

It's just a simple demonstration of what effect EAX 2.0 drivers can have on EAX 1.0 games, regarding positional audio.

Very interesting! I wonder if some part of that comes from the early version of CMSS that SBLive cards seemingly use by default.

To clarify, my own SBLive card is an SB0100. A somewhat newer model which (I think) came out in 2000, and probably uses LiveWare 3.0 drivers (not sure, haven't checked). When hooked up to 5.1 speakers and configured to use them properly, that card will auto-expand pure stereo sources (e.g. music from an audio CD) to surround, meaning you'll hear sounds from the rear speakers as well. I always wondered if that behavior was also present on older SBLive models when using earlier drivers, but I don't own any of those, so I couldn't check.

For me, this stereo expansion is undesirable, but I couldn't find any way to disable it on SBLive cards. The situation is different with Audigy cards, as stereo expansion can be avoided by simply turning off CMSS from the EAX Console utility.