Baoran wrote on 2020-09-26, 17:56:

Godlike wrote on 2020-09-26, 15:31:

Baoran wrote on 2020-09-26, 13:09:

Definitely not just for windows. Some of my favourite 3dfx games like archimedean dynasty are dos games.

Of course not only, but is't a windows card that support some dos game such as quake, mechwarrior2, shadow warrrior, blood etc.
Voodoo1 is more than enough for dos build. Orchid Righteous3D clicky 4MB card from late 1996 such a nice choice

Calling it a windows card is just a label someone gives to it. I don't see any need to attach a card to a specific OS especially when it isn't the only OS that has drivers for it.

You can attach wheels from stroller to mountain bike, and that will work, but better to keep original wheels on mountain bike. hope that make sense

Godlike wrote on 2020-09-26, 21:54:

Baoran wrote on 2020-09-26, 17:56:

Godlike wrote on 2020-09-26, 15:31:

Of course not only, but is't a windows card that support some dos game such as quake, mechwarrior2, shadow warrrior, blood etc.
Voodoo1 is more than enough for dos build. Orchid Righteous3D clicky 4MB card from late 1996 such a nice choice

Calling it a windows card is just a label someone gives to it. I don't see any need to attach a card to a specific OS especially when it isn't the only OS that has drivers for it.

You can attach wheels from stroller to mountain bike, and that will work, but better to keep original wheels on mountain bike. hope that make sense

That literally makes no sense. There are many games that developers later released patched executables specifically to support 3DFX Glide in their games. These games such as Descent, (GL) Quake etc run in DOS but have official 3DFX support. Other games like Carmageddon, and I think Redneck Rampage utilize Glide API. Voodoo2's work for about 95% of the DOS only games out there if you export some environment variables in your Autoexec.bat.

The interesting thing to note is that the 3DFX cards are only used in DOS for games specifically designed to take advantage. For others it just uses the CPU to render the graphics, or in some cases used the primary GPU that feeds into the 3DFX card, in which case the 3DFX is just a pass through device.

What about DirectX6 support (I always heard that V2 can't render all the DX6 features, while V3 can), or the glide2x vs glide3x thing?
And what about that "22-bit" filter incorporated in the DAC of the V3? Does the V2 have that too?

So, rendering-wise, can the Voodoo2 actually do everything the Voodoo3 can?

I am also going to Build a V3 3000 DOS machine. Would be sad if most Games are incompatible there. I tested screamer 2 / rally for example and with the correct glide2x.ovl they seem to work.

AncapDude wrote on 2025-11-18, 01:23:

I am also going to Build a V3 3000 DOS machine. Would be sad if most Games are incompatible there. I tested screamer 2 / rally for example and with the correct glide2x.ovl they seem to work.

Success rate should be pretty good overall
Voodoo 2 DOS Glide compatibility matrix

B24Fox wrote on 2025-11-18, 01:14:

What about DirectX6 support (I always heard that V2 can't render all the DX6 features, while V3 can), or the glide2x vs glide3x thing?
And what about that "22-bit" filter incorporated in the DAC of the V3? Does the V2 have that too?

So, rendering-wise, can the Voodoo2 actually do everything the Voodoo3 can?

DirectX 6 was about multitexturing than anything else. One game where V3 beats V2 at on this is Max Payne where the V2 can't render the decals and tags properly. There's also the virtue of being a primary video device which helps compatibility with some later (2000-2002) games that a Voodoo2 can't start at all.

"22-bit" is marketing. The filters are as i've described in 2018 in this very thread though i've neglected to mention the 2x2 box filter - which isn't a miracle either, and isn't supported on all resolutions. The same filters are on the Banshee.

And finally, a V3 will clobber a V2 SLI at Quake3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forsaken bars cope mean nothing there!!!! Why even SLI!? "1024x768"??? a v3 can do 1920x1440 lmao

I went to Voodoo2 SLI so I had free reign on what my main graphic card was...
I found in pure Glide mode there was little to no real-world difference to the Voodoo3 3000 I had.
Just a personal choice though..

leileilol wrote on 2025-11-18, 10:26:

DirectX 6 was about multitexturing than anything else. One game where V3 beats V2 at on this is Max Payne where the V2 can't render the decals and tags properly. There's also the virtue of being a primary video device which helps compatibility with some later (2000-2002) games that a Voodoo2 can't start at all.

- But the V2 also support multitexturing (in it's case, 2 texture maps done in 1 single pass).. So then why is the V2 considered only fully compatible with DX5, while V3 is fully DX6?

leileilol wrote on 2025-11-18, 10:26:

"22-bit" is marketing. The filters are as i've described in 2018 in this very thread though i've neglected to mention the 2x2 box filter - which isn't a miracle either, and isn't supported on all resolutions. The same filters are on the Banshee.

I read your 2018 post, but I still don't understand exactly..
You said:
"Maybe the filter's an advantage.
Voodoo2's 4x1 filter is actually a single pass which doesn't have the feedback nor lines of the Voodoo Graphics. V3's based on the Voodoo Graphics and carries the 4 pass 4x1 filter."
Can you please expand on that? Are you refering to texture filtering? (I have no clue how V3 does texture filtering compared to the V2, or which one is better... and from your old comment I deduced that it is worse on the V3).

Also, the 22-bit color "cheat", from what I read throughout the years, is done after processing (probably in the DAC), and it basically reduces color-banding by mixing the nearest colors so there aren't any visible "borderlines" between color nuances. Which... to me seems like a genius ideea. And because it was done in the DAC, the effect couldn't be seen in screenshots... but only with a capture device or directly on the monitor (PHIL has some great screen captures here: https://www.philscomputerlab.com/voodoo-3-22-bit-output.html).

leileilol wrote on 2025-11-18, 10:26:

And finally, a V3 will clobber a V2 SLI at Quake3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forsaken bars cope mean nothing there!!!! Why even SLI!? "1024x768"??? a v3 can do 1920x1440 lmao

Yes, I know of V2's shortcomings with newer games, and high resolutions. But in my case (and likely in many others' too, as I've seen around here), I'm gonna be using the 3dfx card as secondary. So it's either gonna be a V2 or a V3-PCI, along side a GeForce2...

Thing is, I'm way more concerned with stuff like the cards' image rendering quality, and compatibility between the 3 glide generations (glide, glide2x, glide3x) games. As any game that look better on D3D, will be more likely to be run on the GF2.
So, if i'm not mistaken, glide3x might have some extra eye-candy, that the V2 can't do, thus Glide3X games have to be run in glide2x mode, with uglier graphics. Is this true??
Also if the V2 doesn't do the 22-bit color trick, than the V3 clearly has the advantage of retroactively eliminating color-banding, in every 3dfx game. So that also seems like a big plus.

On the other hand, the V3 doesn't do that great in 3dfx DOS titles.
And also it will eat up another precious IRQ (that i might not be able to easily spare, as I'm also aiming to have 4 sound cards... with 3 of them already in).
And it will also be more difficult to be run along side another Video card in Win98 (compared to the V2 which can run at the same time as the GF2, and also doesn't require an IRQ)

So if possible, I would really love to know all the differences between the V2 and V3 in terms of compatibility, rendering/graphical quality and visuals.. and maybe any other possible pluses and minuses, when it comes to playing the actual glide games. As this is what will ultimately dictate the direction that this build is gonna take.

P.S. I know the pass-through cable may introduce noise, and that the V2 also has a "dirtier" image output even if connected directly.. And that a pair of V2 in SLI is needed to achieve 1024x768, and they'll suck up 3 times the Wattage of a V3_2000 PCI, and the added heat issues, and no windowed games, and drivers kinda suck...etc.. etc.. I know 😀

B24Fox wrote on 2025-11-19, 00:31:

Can you please expand on that? Are you refering to texture filtering? (I have no clue how V3 does texture filtering compared to the V2, or which one is better... and from your old comment I deduced that it is worse on the V3).

Also, the 22-bit color "cheat", from what I read throughout the years, is done after processing (probably in the DAC), and it basically reduces color-banding by mixing the nearest colors so there aren't any visible "borderlines" between color nuances. Which... to me seems like a genius ideea. And because it was done in the DAC, the effect couldn't be seen in screenshots... but only with a capture device or directly on the monitor (PHIL has some great screen captures here: https://www.philscomputerlab.com/voodoo-3-22-bit-output.html).

4x1 V1/Banshee/V3 = one pixel blends horizontally to one adjacent depending on the threshold, four times
4x1 V2 = one pixel blends over four pixels horizontally depending on the threshold

I mean... I do have the Voodoo2 and Voodoo3 cards and have written PCem emulation code for both of the cards' screen filtering by human eye observation on my own monitors years ago (adjusting the threshold, gamma blasting for maximum visibility, testing with vertical lines over different colors etc), so i'd better know what i'm talking about. What Phil's comparing in those shots are more the two dither tables (2x2 and 4x4) and the dither subtraction (separate from the filter). The Voodoo1/2 can use either table but they're not user-configurable. UnrealEngine1 GlideDrv uses 2x2 without subtraction, and should be more equal footing in V2 vs V3 comparisons.

Also "22-bit" won't grant better texture formats like RGBA8888 so all those 4-bit alpha texture surfaces and the like on 1999+ games will still be ugly and banded. it's no Kyro.

V2 drivers should also have code to deactivate the filter in SLI mode because there's clock issues.

(also if anyone brings up HyperSnap they're wrong)

Ok, so from my understanding, it's not looking too good for the Voodoo2.. (?)
And from what I understood, the 22bit hack, will only affect stuff like smoke, transparency gradients and lighting... but not 16bit textures.

If you (or anyone else) have any more pros & cons in any of the two cards direction, please bring them up!

Thank you @leileilol !

Voodoo2 was a nice 1997 card but it really doesn't have enough texture memory for games after that timeframe. SLI doesn't increase texture memory. Voodoo3 can perform drastically better in some games and be smoother in general.

IMO the differences in image quality are just part of the experience with all these old cards. Though it's not very enjoyable on a LCD that destroys non-native resolutions and often has refresh rate issues above 60 Hz.