VOGONS


What retro activity did you get up to today?

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Reply 30540 of 30552, by Ozzuneoj

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luckybob wrote on 2025-12-07, 00:07:
GigAHerZ wrote on 2025-12-06, 23:46:

Behold, it has been published!

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:7223953

And here i am, just putting all my ram into baggies and stuffing them all in a big box. Like some kind of pleb.

I have boxes for each type of RAM, and some ESD safe bags to separate some, but a lot of times I will use twist ties to keep matched sets of RAM together. This is especially handy for 72pin and 30pin SIMMs that basically require being used in sets. I made the mistake of using rubber bands many years ago, but the rubber decomposes rather quickly and then adheres to the RAM wherever it was touching. So... no more rubber bands!

3D printed holders would be neat, but I think I'd need a much larger container to put all of them in if I tried to store them this way. Also, a 3D printer. I'd need one of those too. And a place for that. And filament. Ahhh...

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 30541 of 30552, by MattRocks

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fosterwj03 wrote on 2025-12-06, 17:52:

I like NT 3.51 for its stability and the retro Windows interface. I didn't use NT as my daily driver OS until NT 4.0, though. I've learned to appreciate NT 3.51 in later years.

All versions of Windows are fast and stable when there is no software to load onto them 😉

Reply 30542 of 30552, by fosterwj03

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MattRocks wrote on 2025-12-07, 09:18:
fosterwj03 wrote on 2025-12-06, 17:52:

I like NT 3.51 for its stability and the retro Windows interface. I didn't use NT as my daily driver OS until NT 4.0, though. I've learned to appreciate NT 3.51 in later years.

All versions of Windows are fast and stable when there is no software to load onto them 😉

True. I'm also a fan of well written 32-bit software. That has, sadly, become less common in recent years.

Reply 30543 of 30552, by MattRocks

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fosterwj03 wrote on 2025-12-07, 14:23:
MattRocks wrote on 2025-12-07, 09:18:
fosterwj03 wrote on 2025-12-06, 17:52:

I like NT 3.51 for its stability and the retro Windows interface. I didn't use NT as my daily driver OS until NT 4.0, though. I've learned to appreciate NT 3.51 in later years.

All versions of Windows are fast and stable when there is no software to load onto them 😉

True. I'm also a fan of well written 32-bit software. That has, sadly, become less common in recent years.

It's just a hunch but I suspect we find the most efficient applications are from the era when RAM was prohibitively expensive.

On my K6-2 circa Y2K I used to use PhotoShop3 and Word For Windows. Those apps was already retro software, but functional. The basic concepts didn't change. What did change is that complex apps like Word for Windows (multi-language spell check, grammar check, various fonts, etc.) opened faster than the most basic apps like Notepad - how can Microsoft defend that?

For comparison, the contemporary MS Office had extra startup pre-fetching yet ran painfully slow. The trend was clearly not what users wanted, unless users wanted cheap software?

Reply 30544 of 30552, by Susanin79

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Good progress on the LOGI PC88XT motherboard repair (background in the earlier posts of this thread).

All tantalum capacitors on the power rails were bad and have been replaced. The CPU, BIOS, and DRAM ICs were temporarily borrowed from an Auva XT clone used as a donor.
The system now boots, though there are still issues with RAM, the keyboard, and the floppy subsystem—still a solid step forward.

Using the XTRAMTEST BIOS I was able to identify a faulty DRAM and replace it. I still need to track down a remaining parity error.

Reply 30545 of 30552, by henk717

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Did something very unusual today. I now have my own serial modem in a VM (based on vmodem from the protoweb community) so my physical retro PC can dial out. I had that for a while but finally having it in a VM makes it fun to use it again since setting it up on a proper linux install was always really difficult to do well.

I am into old malware that has interesting effects and I remembered one of the dialers I discovered back in 2004. After some digging I got the activex cab for it and with the help of AI I got a html file to trigger its install. It worked really really well. Its a browser hijacker from bill2000 which has a 2001 era startpage bundled. Those startpages were very popular in my country and contained links to all kinds of popular sites as well as a search bar. They clearly mimicked that, although no search bar. Its full of links to popular sites, but since its malware it has multiple pay sites in between the links that cost 1.50 per minute and in the later version 70 cents per minute. I clicked on one after the vmodem script was touched up to correctly ppp dial on any number. This tricks the dialer into thinking that its a legit authentication.

Did some digging online as well for fun ones. There is HotXXX which allegedly is related to the lop malware that I have in my collection (had a fun detour and found more older versions of that, the one in my collection wasn't available online so I uploaded it to a virus research website for vintage malware fans to have fun with). But this malware would apparently dial pay numbers every few minutes. Couldn't find it anywhere. I did find another one that calls itself that but it doesn't seem malicious neither was it related to lop.

As I got myself a small collection of them after a lot of link digging in the waybackmachine I can basically conclude how the dailers work. There is no authentication whatsoever. It counts if there is a successfull dialup connection. All of these numbers act identical to a PPP internet provider. The paysite was likely walled off to its own provider so any real verification would be done on the backend there. I'd love to emulate that somehow but I don't have a good method to do seperate proxies on the vmodem side.

Some dialers are also kind to put the current charge on the screen. One completely managed to hide the adapter but was still showing rates at least. The startpage hijackers one is more basic and doesn't give an indication you are connected to it. When I played around with it in 2004 we had adsl (hence safe) so I don't know what indicator there is if you do access the site for real, but i'd assume they don't show and hope you forget that your internet is now at 70 cents per minute on top of your phone bill.

Now you might be wondering, what kinda site are the dialers for? Your first guess is probably correct I don't even have to mention it, although category wise some you may expect are missing and stuff that you would not expect is there. But there are genuine surprises and they had some incredible access to some domain names, for example "alcoholvrij" which translates to alchohol free which seems to be a dialer paywalled anti alcohol site of some sorts. There was a website about cars. A flash game website (which is how I discovered it when I was young). And some coloring website for kids! Yup, they had a paywall young kids website which name implied it was where they can color images. So your toddler can spend some fun coloring when they see that page on the startpage of the browser, at 70 cents per minute of course.

Another cheeky thing, of all the dialers I tested none of them automatically hang up on the windows side. They all disable the tick to auto hang up. Although most advertise maximum amounts, for example 48 dollars after which apparently it would have disconnected on their end.

How did they get away with that kinda rate? International lines that were fully unregulated back then.

The last but not least surprising thing about them, almost all of the ones I found had proper uninstall options although sometimes slightly hidden. They wouldn't always properly cleanup the dialup profile but they would at least cleanly uninstall themselves. Except for one which has no uninstaller at all, the browser hijacker of course. Now my windows 98 install still has a nostaltic 2001 startpage, and you know what? I actually like it. Gives it a bit of realism and helps me not get the errors of it trying to load way to modern sites right away before the proxy kicks in. Most of the links on it are real proper links after all, and I like the dialer aspect to since its all fun and games when its not a real modem.

Eventually if I am sick of it ill just delete the files to stop it from messing with my browser.

Reply 30546 of 30552, by Masaw

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henk717 wrote on 2025-12-09, 03:43:

I am into old malware that has interesting effects and I remembered one of the dialers I discovered back in 2004. After some digging I got the activex cab for it and with the help of AI I got a html file to trigger its install. It worked really really well. Its a browser hijacker from bill2000 which has a 2001 era startpage bundled. Those startpages were very popular in my country and contained links to all kinds of popular sites as well as a search bar. They clearly mimicked that, although no search bar. Its full of links to popular sites, but since its malware it has multiple pay sites in between the links that cost 1.50 per minute and in the later version 70 cents per minute. I clicked on one after the vmodem script was touched up to correctly ppp dial on any number. This tricks the dialer into thinking that its a legit authentication.

I love vintage malware too..specifically DOS and BOOT viruses of the 80's and 90's era. i would love to have a copy of that collection that you've uploaded

VCheck+ Portable Antivirus for DOS
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Main: https://archive.org/details/VCHECK/
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Updated! : http://old-dos.ru/index.php?page=files&mode=f … =show&id=103705
======

Reply 30547 of 30552, by henk717

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I didn't upload the entire collection, only lop. I don't have that many dos viruses yet, the ones I do have are from public collections that period is a bit before my time.
Our ability of finding those online would be very similar.
I grew up on the rogue antivirus era and those have been the ones I like collecting, dialers now I have a use of them became part of that, same for malicious toolbars.

Meanwhile I managed to splice together a believable installer page as a payload for IE4 up to 6 for this side project. I did it based on one of the pages of the original dialer as well as some coding of my own, it follows that really evil design from the early 2000's that forced you to click yes on the activex install prompt, its an infinite loop if you don't. Its that exact behavior that made microsoft change it in Service Pack 2 and I am happy to have it in my collection. I also learned more about how that startpage dailer can be run from the browser, its actually very open in how it works as they use config files and there are plenty of examples that come bundled. So I can now use it to automatically dial any number I want straight from the browser, this is an insane security vulnerability that they made it this easy, there is no consent page whatsoever once that triggers. All a website has to do is redirect to its config file format and the malware takes it from there.

Other fun observation, previously I had AVG on Windows 98 as its a scanner from 2008 so I assumed it would cover the entire Windows 98 era.
Turns out I was wrong, its signatures that came bundled aren't sufficient at all and it lets a lot of these dialers straight trough.
I switched to Avast 4.8.1368 which has a free key available at https://www.avast.com/registration-free-antivirus and its latest updates from 2017 available here : http://files.avast.com/iavs4pro/vpsupd4.exe

Avast does detect it all, and 2017 definitions are overkill for a 98 based system (For XP you can get a later version of avast).

Reply 30548 of 30552, by Haustor

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what retro activity did you get up to today?

Every morning I wake up with this question:
which component can I choose for my computer with a Gigabyte GA-8N-SLI pro motherboard?
I left with a Pentium IV 651 and a pair of 8500gt from Gigabyte.
But the performance is limited.
Switching to a Pentium D and another combination of graphics cards in SLI?
I'll open a thread, maybe I'll find an answer here.

Retro computers are exciting !

Main computer > Lenovo S30 - Intel Xeon E5-2650v2 - 32go PC3-10600R - Nvidia K4000
Retro computer > VB-609 - Pentium II 400 - Voodoo Banshee - Jonsbo D41 STD
Retro computer > GA-8N-SLI Pro - Pentium IV 651 - 8500GT SLI - Fractal Design POP TG

Reply 30549 of 30552, by PD2JK

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Haustor wrote on 2025-12-11, 10:07:

But the performance is limited.

With those specs, I guess it is time for yet another box. But then most games would probably run on contemporary hardware.

i386 16 ⇒ i486 DX4 100 ⇒ Pentium MMX 200 ⇒ Athlon Pluto 700 ⇒ AthlonXP 1700+ ⇒ Opteron 165 ⇒ Dual Opteron 856

Reply 30550 of 30552, by Susanin79

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Two steps ahead with the LOGI XT motherboard repair.
Keyboard fixed via keylock jumper. I am totally forgot about it and when the Keyboard connector trace was done the idea to check a keylok jumper came into my mind. My bad, it was so easy.
My slow 4164s modules are 200 ns and can not be run in a turbo mode, need to replace them.

Reply 30551 of 30552, by henk717

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Been messing around with my pc "WARP" which last retro season was having some PS/2 mouse issues where spontaneously it would get really bad but often fixed after a reboot or pushing down on the plug a little. I decided last season to go USB only for now, so today in this retro PC season (I can only run them in the winter so each winter is a season for me as in the the summer it gets so hot I fear for my components) I want to be prepared for a potential PS2/ mouse port death. So far it does seem its not a motherboard issue but just issues with a loose connector, but just in case if it happens again this season ill go back to USB only again and need a plan.

USB mode works well in almost everything thats why i can mostly rely on it. But there is an exception, MS-Dos itself. If I just use the mouse in dos apps its pretty much fine, its also completely fine in Windows 3.11. But if I begin playing doom ill have a frozen mouse before reaching the end of the first level. Something is getting uninitialized possibly because the game may be overwriting a region.
I found a workaround though, considering I am not having this in any of the microsoft operating systems it made me wonder if the latest version of the microsoft mouse driver would avoid this issue where cutemouse fails. And yes, it totally does! I did have one hitch while playing the game so the same fault may occur, but if it does the Microsoft Mouse driver has recovery for it at least to where its usable. Thats a relief because that means I can keep using the mouse in DOS games even if the PS/2 port fully fails at some point. For now its back on PS/2 after briefly having it on a thin client where it worked fully fine, and we'll see how long that lasts.

Another thing I wanted to revisit is the Windows 3.11 partition of this multibooter, Windows 3.11 never fully worked right on this system because an Nvidia 6800GT is just to new for it. In the past I haven't had much luck with universal drivers. But vbesvga.drv made a lot of progress since then so it was worth a revisit. And the revisit paid off! Unlike last time where I had to do tweaks to get it to work and it would then cause crashes when windows were dragged its fully stable now on the system, unlocking proper Windows 3.11 compatibility as all the essentials work. My ESS Solo-1 already had a well hidden but official driver for it so now I have graphics, sound and the mouse already worked by default. I had one game laying around I knew was Windows 3.11 compatible (Freddy Fish 2) but somehow thats complaining about win32s even though I can see it installed it during setup. Eventually when I find other Windows 3.11 titles ill give the OS some more tinkering.

So a proper USB mouse workaround (even though its 25kb instead of 5kb) and working SVGA in one sitting, I call that a win. If you do know of a better mouse driver I could be using i'd love to know. I tried pmouse as well but that one has the same issue with ctmouse where the mouse stops working midgame. I also tried ctmouse20 instead of 21 but that one doesn't work at all.

Reply 30552 of 30552, by bofh.fromhell

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Been working on my backlog of untested stuff.
An ECS P6S5AT rev 1.6 that works just fine.
And the above MB allowed me to dig into a big bag of various untested memory sticks, nothing spectacular among them but they all worked.
An ASUS P6NP5, also working just fine but needs a few fresh caps.
And the P6NP5 made quick work of all the FPM and EDO modules the ECS cant do.
An extremely dirty P2B-DS that didn't even POST at first, but after a thorough clean also works just fine!
A handful of SLOT1 celerons, both Covington and Mendocinos (never had a Covington before) that all works.
SLOT1 CPU's seems to be extremely reliable, I guess they are well protected.
A few random AGP cards, only a GF4 4200 did not work (massive artifacts, the usual).