dionb wrote on Yesterday, 23:51:

If you want info on jumpers or mods, we need to know exactly what hardware you have. If you don't know the name of the motherboard, give us the model number of the Aptiva.

Nothing kills a troubleshooting thread faster than lack of information

dionb wrote on Yesterday, 23:51:

Señor Ventura wrote on Yesterday, 19:07:

[...]

The CPU definitely shows 120mhz in every bench program i use (119.mhz), probably my bios sets this frequency and it can't be changed from there... maybe some jumper?...

If you're running your P200 at 120MHz that can explain a thing or two...

As for BIOS setting CPU frequency - not very likely on a system this old. Almost certainly this will either be with jumpers or - IBM did this on some early Aptivas - simply hardwired to 2.0x multiplier and 60MHz bus speed. In the latter case you would need a simple mod to get to 3.0x multiplier. 66MHz FSB options depend on the exact motherboard. I already asked which Aptiva you have there. You didn't answer. If you want info on jumpers or mods, we need to know exactly what hardware you have. If you don't know the name of the motherboard, give us the model number of the Aptiva.

It is an aptiva 2144-351 (SL-A), chipset 5511/12/13 with integrated vga SIS5598, sorry, i was pretty convinced that i already wrote this.

Jumper jp10 and jumper jp11 in positions 1-2 supossedly set the cpu to 150mhz, but i think jp10 must be 2-3, i need confirmation. I'm searching some, if i find it i will post it here.

Señor Ventura wrote on Today, 01:49:

It is an aptiva 2144-351 (SL-A), chipset 5511/12/13 with integrated vga SIS5598, sorry, i was pretty convinced that i already wr […]
Show full quote

dionb wrote on Yesterday, 23:51:

Señor Ventura wrote on Yesterday, 19:07:

[...]

The CPU definitely shows 120mhz in every bench program i use (119.mhz), probably my bios sets this frequency and it can't be changed from there... maybe some jumper?...

If you're running your P200 at 120MHz that can explain a thing or two...

As for BIOS setting CPU frequency - not very likely on a system this old. Almost certainly this will either be with jumpers or - IBM did this on some early Aptivas - simply hardwired to 2.0x multiplier and 60MHz bus speed. In the latter case you would need a simple mod to get to 3.0x multiplier. 66MHz FSB options depend on the exact motherboard. I already asked which Aptiva you have there. You didn't answer. If you want info on jumpers or mods, we need to know exactly what hardware you have. If you don't know the name of the motherboard, give us the model number of the Aptiva.

It is an aptiva 2144-351 (SL-A), chipset 5511/12/13 with integrated vga SIS5598, sorry, i was pretty convinced that i already wrote this.

Jumper jp10 and jumper jp11 in positions 1-2 supossedly set the cpu to 150mhz, but i think jp10 must be 2-3, i need confirmation. I'm searching some, if i find it i will post it here.

It is entirely possible that only the FSB, or, only the multiplier is available to be changed, or that one jumper does either/or fsb and another either/or multiplier, since the amount of cpu configurations a model came with was usually pretty limited. Often manuals only list what jumper positions to use for what cpu speeds opposed to if a jumper actually does FSB or multiplier

Usually you are fine to set these any which way without doing any damage, worst case the board wont post. I would go ahead and try all possible combinations of jp10 and jp11, you will likely be able to figure out which one does what by doing so

Señor Ventura wrote on Today, 01:49:

It is an aptiva 2144-351 (SL-A), chipset 5511/12/13 with integrated vga SIS5598, sorry, i was pretty convinced that i already wr […]
Show full quote

dionb wrote on Yesterday, 23:51:

Señor Ventura wrote on Yesterday, 19:07:

[...]

The CPU definitely shows 120mhz in every bench program i use (119.mhz), probably my bios sets this frequency and it can't be changed from there... maybe some jumper?...

If you're running your P200 at 120MHz that can explain a thing or two...

As for BIOS setting CPU frequency - not very likely on a system this old. Almost certainly this will either be with jumpers or - IBM did this on some early Aptivas - simply hardwired to 2.0x multiplier and 60MHz bus speed. In the latter case you would need a simple mod to get to 3.0x multiplier. 66MHz FSB options depend on the exact motherboard. I already asked which Aptiva you have there. You didn't answer. If you want info on jumpers or mods, we need to know exactly what hardware you have. If you don't know the name of the motherboard, give us the model number of the Aptiva.

It is an aptiva 2144-351 (SL-A), chipset 5511/12/13 with integrated vga SIS5598, sorry, i was pretty convinced that i already wrote this.

Jumper jp10 and jumper jp11 in positions 1-2 supossedly set the cpu to 150mhz, but i think jp10 must be 2-3, i need confirmation. I'm searching some, if i find it i will post it here.

Sorry if this has been posted already, but does your motherboard resemble the one in this system at all?
IBM Aptiva 2144-M51

I haven't read every detail of the thread but there is discussion of CPU jumpers and upgrading to a 200Mhz Pentium.

bertrammatrix wrote on Today, 04:05:

Señor Ventura wrote on Today, 01:49:

It is an aptiva 2144-351 (SL-A), chipset 5511/12/13 with integrated vga SIS5598, sorry, i was pretty convinced that i already wr […]
Show full quote

dionb wrote on Yesterday, 23:51:

If you're running your P200 at 120MHz that can explain a thing or two...

As for BIOS setting CPU frequency - not very likely on a system this old. Almost certainly this will either be with jumpers or - IBM did this on some early Aptivas - simply hardwired to 2.0x multiplier and 60MHz bus speed. In the latter case you would need a simple mod to get to 3.0x multiplier. 66MHz FSB options depend on the exact motherboard. I already asked which Aptiva you have there. You didn't answer. If you want info on jumpers or mods, we need to know exactly what hardware you have. If you don't know the name of the motherboard, give us the model number of the Aptiva.

It is an aptiva 2144-351 (SL-A), chipset 5511/12/13 with integrated vga SIS5598, sorry, i was pretty convinced that i already wrote this.

Jumper jp10 and jumper jp11 in positions 1-2 supossedly set the cpu to 150mhz, but i think jp10 must be 2-3, i need confirmation. I'm searching some, if i find it i will post it here.

It is entirely possible that only the FSB, or, only the multiplier is available to be changed, or that one jumper does either/or fsb and another either/or multiplier, since the amount of cpu configurations a model came with was usually pretty limited. Often manuals only list what jumper positions to use for what cpu speeds opposed to if a jumper actually does FSB or multiplier

Usually you are fine to set these any which way without doing any damage, worst case the board wont post. I would go ahead and try all possible combinations of jp10 and jp11, you will likely be able to figure out which one does what by doing so

I can achieve P90, P120, P150, and P180.

With 180mhz bios shows it as "0", but "speed sys" doesn't agree with that... tomorrow i would confirm.

Edit: and now i realizing that bios reports "error 127" main board when i try p180 (it is recognized in bios as "p0").

Maybe try CHKCPU?

Jasin Natael wrote on Today, 14:04:

Maybe try CHKCPU?

I don't see any jumper like that, really is a very basic motherboard.

It has its irony xD

-As "P0" (180mhz), bios detect a problem (error 127), but the computer is stable, windows 98 boots properly, and all runs good (lacks 20mhz, but ok).

-As "P90" bios gives its ok, but the system is enormouly unstable, windows with glitches, etc.

Edit: i'm seeing myself setting up as "P150", and lacking 50mhz in order to get stability, and not having to read error messages.

Señor Ventura wrote on Today, 04:36:

I can achieve P90, P120, P150, and P180.

With 180mhz bios shows it as "0", but "speed sys" doesn't agree with that... tomorrow i would confirm.

Edit: and now i realizing that bios reports "error 127" main board when i try p180 (it is recognized in bios as "p0").

What's the date on your BIOS? Perhaps there's a BIOS upgrade that understands the higher multipliers.
Can you find your motherboard here? https://theretroweb.com/motherboards

I suppose it is possible that the jumpers for the fastest multipliers were not connected to the CPU correctly.

douglar wrote on Today, 14:56:

What's the date on your BIOS? Perhaps there's a BIOS upgrade that understands the higher multipliers. Can you find your motherb […]
Show full quote

Señor Ventura wrote on Today, 04:36:

I can achieve P90, P120, P150, and P180.

With 180mhz bios shows it as "0", but "speed sys" doesn't agree with that... tomorrow i would confirm.

Edit: and now i realizing that bios reports "error 127" main board when i try p180 (it is recognized in bios as "p0").

What's the date on your BIOS? Perhaps there's a BIOS upgrade that understands the higher multipliers.
Can you find your motherboard here? https://theretroweb.com/motherboards

I suppose it is possible that the jumpers for the fastest multipliers were not connected to the CPU correctly.

I can't find it in this link, but i have seen this here. Supossedly i should can have a pentium 200 in this computer, but...

P.D: jumpers are all rigth placed.

Señor Ventura wrote on Today, 01:49:

[...]

It is an aptiva 2144-351 (SL-A), chipset 5511/12/13 with integrated vga SIS5598, sorry, i was pretty convinced that i already wrote this.

You already wrote 5511/12/13 with integrated vga SIS5598 and we already concluded that was incorrect...

Is this the board? https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/ecs-si … 8p-vio-rev-1-0b

It certainly seems to correspond to the diagram you posted and the other specs. And clearly shows you have a SiS5511/12/13 with SiS6205 chip in UMA, as we had already discovered earlier. No 5598...

Jumper jp10 and jumper jp11 in positions 1-2 supossedly set the cpu to 150mhz, but i think jp10 must be 2-3, i need confirmation […]
Show full quote

Jumper jp10 and jumper jp11 in positions 1-2 supossedly set the cpu to 150mhz, but i think jp10 must be 2-3, i need confirmation. I'm searching some, if i find it i will post it here.

According to that documentation JP10 and JP11 gives a 2/5 ratio, i.e. a 2.5x multiplier, so if the bus is set to 60MHz, you get 2.5x60=150MHz. So that's correct.

Señor Ventura wrote on Today, 15:14:

[...]

I can't find it in this link, but i have seen this here. Supossedly i should can have a pentium 200 in this computer, but...

P.D: jumpers are all rigth placed.

What do you call "rigth placed"? Please be clear:

- which position(s) is J35 in?
- which position(s) are JP10 and JP11 in?

A P200 should be configured with 3.0x66MHz. According to the documentation you posted there, that means J35 should have both 1-2 and 3-4 jumpered to give 66MHz bus speed; JP10 should be set to 2-3 and JP11 to 1-2 to select 3.0x multiplier (or as IBM has listed it, 1/3 ratio).

If this is not stable, the first place to look is the RAM. 66MHz FSB requires 60ns EDO or FP DRAM. 70ns RAM sometimes runs OK but sometimes doesn't. What is yours? (look at the chips on your SIMMs, the identifying line will usually end with -6 or -7, if -6 it's 60ns, if -7 it's 70ns)

Another thing to check is the BIOS version. You say the CPU speed isn't reported correctly. That could indicate the BIOS is older than your CPU. The Pentium 200 was released in June 1996. On TheRetroWeb two BIOS versions are listed, with the older being from the summer of 1996 and the newer from early 1997. It might be worth upgrading to the latter if you're not already running BFLUK4L.

Señor Ventura wrote on Today, 14:48:

I don't see any jumper like that, really is a very basic motherboard. […]
Show full quote

Jasin Natael wrote on Today, 14:04:

Maybe try CHKCPU?

I don't see any jumper like that, really is a very basic motherboard.

It has its irony xD

-As "P0" (180mhz), bios detect a problem (error 127), but the computer is stable, windows 98 boots properly, and all runs good (lacks 20mhz, but ok).

-As "P90" bios gives its ok, but the system is enormouly unstable, windows with glitches, etc.

Edit: i'm seeing myself setting up as "P150", and lacking 50mhz in order to get stability, and not having to read error messages.

CHKCPU is a program that identifies your processor:
http://www.steunebrink.info/chkcpu.htm

douglar wrote on Today, 14:56:

What's the date on your BIOS? Perhaps there's a BIOS upgrade that understands the higher multipliers. Can you find your motherb […]
Show full quote

Señor Ventura wrote on Today, 04:36:

I can achieve P90, P120, P150, and P180.

With 180mhz bios shows it as "0", but "speed sys" doesn't agree with that... tomorrow i would confirm.

Edit: and now i realizing that bios reports "error 127" main board when i try p180 (it is recognized in bios as "p0").

What's the date on your BIOS? Perhaps there's a BIOS upgrade that understands the higher multipliers.
Can you find your motherboard here? https://theretroweb.com/motherboards

I suppose it is possible that the jumpers for the fastest multipliers were not connected to the CPU correctly.

Shouldn't the multiplier be a non issue here? If it runs at 180 that would mean it already has the required 3x set, it should just work at 200 once the fsb is set to 66. Or are you thinking that the system just spits that error out because it is not recognizing that cpus fsb/multi combination to identify it correctly? Usually I just see them get identified wrong, but I suppose it could be spitting up an error because of it being an ibm.

dionb wrote on Today, 16:26:

You already wrote 5511/12/13 with integrated vga SIS5598 and we already concluded that was incorrect...

Is this the board? https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/ecs-si … 8p-vio-rev-1-0b

It certainly seems to correspond to the diagram you posted and the other specs. And clearly shows you have a SiS5511/12/13 with SiS6205 chip in UMA, as we had already discovered earlier. No 5598...

I see the problem... SIS5598 is the SoC, not the integrated VGA itself... sorry for the inconvenieces.

dionb wrote on Today, 16:26:

According to that documentation JP10 and JP11 gives a 2/5 ratio, i.e. a 2.5x multiplier, so if the bus is set to 60MHz, you get 2.5x60=150MHz. So that's correct.

All this time i thought never was a third jumper, so the fourth conmutation was driving me to think that it was "auto detecting mode" or something like this, but now i see that setting up to "P150" enters into conflict with "j35" jumper, which is not near of "JP10" and "JP11".

dionb wrote on Today, 16:26:

What do you call "rigth placed"? Please be clear:

- which position(s) is J35 in?
- which position(s) are JP10 and JP11 in?

I meant the douglar's commet about if i putted wrong some jumper, and all are well contected.

Jumpers are:
-JP10 (2-3)
-JP11 (1-2)
-J35 i don't know if reading "same oriented" as JP10 and 11, or in the same orientation as its name (J35).

dionb wrote on Today, 16:26:

A P200 should be configured with 3.0x66MHz. According to the documentation you posted there, that means J35 should have both 1-2 and 3-4 jumpered to give 66MHz bus speed; JP10 should be set to 2-3 and JP11 to 1-2 to select 3.0x multiplier (or as IBM has listed it, 1/3 ratio).

I almost there, then... the only thing right now is how to consider the pin positions 1, 2, 3, 4 of J35 (from up to down, or from left to right).

dionb wrote on Today, 16:26:

If this is not stable, the first place to look is the RAM. 66MHz FSB requires 60ns EDO or FP DRAM. 70ns RAM sometimes runs OK but sometimes doesn't. What is yours? (look at the chips on your SIMMs, the identifying line will usually end with -6 or -7, if -6 it's 60ns, if -7 it's 70ns)

Checked!, it says clearly -60, so 60ns... and all this time it has no issues from bios marking 60ns, so, it seems to be all right.

dionb wrote on Today, 16:26:

Another thing to check is the BIOS version. You say the CPU speed isn't reported correctly. That could indicate the BIOS is older than your CPU. The Pentium 200 was released in June 1996. On TheRetroWeb two BIOS versions are listed, with the older being from the summer of 1996 and the newer from early 1997. It might be worth upgrading to the latter if you're not already running BFLUK4L.

Nightmares right now...

Ok, i will try to set the pentium working at its frequency, and if it fails trying to report the cpu, then i will dive into this... somehow... xp

P.D: And thank you so much for your patience!.

Ozzuneoj wrote on Today, 16:29:

CHKCPU is a program that identifies your processor:
http://www.steunebrink.info/chkcpu.htm

No problems here with this, is a pentium 200 p54c.

bertrammatrix wrote on Today, 17:17:

Shouldn't the multiplier be a non issue here? If it runs at 180 that would mean it already has the required 3x set, it should just work at 200 once the fsb is set to 66. Or are you thinking that the system just spits that error out because it is not recognizing that cpus fsb/multi combination to identify it correctly? Usually I just see them get identified wrong, but I suppose it could be spitting up an error because of it being an ibm.

Theoretically no one configuration could harm the processor because is the top electrically... but never knows... maybe there could bw one that enables too much multiplier...

Ancestral fears i suppose xD

Looks like you just have to put the one jumper on jp35. 3&4 are already connected 1 &2 is all that is left to connect for 66 and you should be good to go

You don't have to worry about setting the multiplier "too high" - it is always locked upwards on Pentium cpus, meaning you can always set a lower multiplier of choice, but anything higher then the chip supports will have no effect

bertrammatrix wrote on Today, 18:28:

Looks like you just have to put the one jumper on jp35. 3&4 are already connected 1 &2 is all that is left to connect for 66 and you should be good to go

You don't have to worry about setting the multiplier "too high" - it is always locked upwards on Pentium cpus, meaning you can always set a lower multiplier of choice, but anything higher then the chip supports will have no effect

So, i only have to connect the one wich is alone to the unused pin, not changing positions, or whatever.

I was so lost... j35 was hide under 3 boards near the riser ^^u

Thanks to all!

bertrammatrix wrote on Today, 18:28:

Looks like you just have to put the one jumper on jp35. 3&4 are already connected 1 &2 is all that is left to connect for 66 and you should be good to go

You don't have to worry about setting the multiplier "too high" - it is always locked upwards on Pentium cpus, meaning you can always set a lower multiplier of choice, but anything higher then the chip supports will have no effect

Also, there is no higher multiplier than 3x for P54C, so you couldn't set an unlocked Pentium non-MMX higher regardless