the3dfxdude wrote on Yesterday, 13:36:

Even in the states, 5.25" HD floppy drive system could be bought as the primary drive all the way up to somewhere about the time DOS 6 was out. So if this is a base clone model, and it came with 3.5", we are looking pretty late for 386. And many people were looking for both 3.5" and 5.25" for upgrading, so it is a base model from the time. For an _early_ base clone model, I would more expect 5.25", because new media for HD 5.25" was dirt cheap in '90-93, so it makes sense for someone buying an economical DOS or basic Windows machine like they had been familiar with in those days. Since this doesn't have 5.25" we are past that point. As it is hinting it is a 386, it probably puts it before '94 too, so a late 386 or a 486 in 386 platform, and not really getting into the pentium era.

This is interesting. I’d say the 5.25” was pretty much dead for new PCs by 1990-91 where I live. Of course some had them, but you really opted one if you really needed it. I got a 386SX-20 sometime during 1991 and it came with secondary 5.25” B-drive. I probably had one pack of floppies for it and used it as a backup media. None of my PC using friends had 5.25” drives, even those who had couple of years older machines. And the pirate bbs I got most of my software from had every multifloppy release zipped for 1.44MB. 3.5” floppies were the most common format outside the PC ecosystem by that time too due to the popularity of Atari ST and even more so the Amiga 500, although those naturally had DD drives.

If that system would be something like -90-92, I would find single 3.5” floppy drive the most usual and default option. If it would had second 5.25” drive, it would be an extra option for the basic system and if it would have only 5.25”, I would think that it is unusual and the least common option.

It may be that in US PC 5.25” format stayed relevant for longer as there was much larger existing base of older machines and people really needed a common sotarge media more than in europe.

CharlieFoxtrot wrote on Yesterday, 13:56:

If that system would be something like -90-92, I would find single 3.5” floppy drive the most usual and default option. If it would had second 5.25” drive, it would be an extra option for the basic system and if it would have only 5.25”, I would think that it is unusual and the least common option.

It may be that in US PC 5.25” format stayed relevant for longer as there was much larger existing base of older machines and people really needed a common sotarge media more than in europe.

Yes, if this was a budget clone machine, I would expect this to be an upgrade path model for people in the states, which a 5.25" drive has some use in that. This is not, so a later or better 386 of the early '90s that would not have gone too far into the early pentium days. The 5.25" 386 base systems were likely pulled off the market by around '93. I just remember unpacking systems like these, a 486slc with 5.25" as the primary drive around '92.

Another piece of evidence of this is if you look at the Slackware release notes from late '93, people were asking Pat for 5.25" boot and install media, because that is what they had for a drive to install with. Linux requires a minimum of 386, so... it's a complete reality people were still using HD 5.25" drives 😀

the3dfxdude wrote on Yesterday, 14:07:

CharlieFoxtrot wrote on Yesterday, 13:56:

If that system would be something like -90-92, I would find single 3.5” floppy drive the most usual and default option. If it would had second 5.25” drive, it would be an extra option for the basic system and if it would have only 5.25”, I would think that it is unusual and the least common option.

It may be that in US PC 5.25” format stayed relevant for longer as there was much larger existing base of older machines and people really needed a common sotarge media more than in europe.

Yes, if this was a budget clone machine, I would expect this to be an upgrade path model for people in the states, which a 5.25" drive has some use in that. This is not, so a later or better 386 of the early '90s that would not have gone too far into the early pentium days. The 5.25" 386 base systems were likely pulled off the market by around '93. I just remember unpacking systems like these, a 486slc with 5.25" as the primary drive around '92.

Another piece of evidence of this is if you look at the Slackware release notes from late '93, people were asking Pat for 5.25" boot and install media, because that is what they had for a drive to install with. Linux requires a minimum of 386, so... it's a complete reality people were still using HD 5.25" drives 😀

To add to the ”early” adoption of 3.5” drives for PCs here, I had a 8086 XT before that 386SX. I got it around 89-90 and it also had 3.5” drive, although a 720kB one. I soon got external 1.44MB drive for it, because that’s what all my friends had and disk swapping was pretty much impossible for me until I got a HD drive. At no point during those years I actually felt that I needed 5.25” floppy drive.

The Paradise VGA is the ancestor of the WD90C00 amiright? The WD has mystery switches at the top, and if I remember correctly the PVGA as well. This VGA card hasn’t. My guess is still Trident 9000A or C.

either a 386DX-25/33,
4 Megs of 30 pin ram
50 to 100 MB HDD probably Connor
Trident 8900

Open it up!

Because it says "386", without including the SX/DX distinction, I'm guessing it's an early 16-or-20MHz 386, which is technically a DX as the first 386s had the Double-word eXternal bus. It's just that the "DX" suffix wasn't added to the 386 until the introduction of the 386SX. A 386SX system would be (hopefully) very plainly marked on the case badge to prevent accusations of fraud.

Almost certainly wouldn't also have an 80387 installed because that's something that you wouldn't just stick in a 'premake' and hope a customer buys it with that spec (unless a customer HAD specced it and then backed out of the deal, hence the machine just being packed up again).

I wouldn't be surprised if it just had 1MB (in 256KB SIMMs in Bank 0), or possibly ugraded to 5MB by either putting four 1MB sticks in Bank 1, or moving those 256KB sticks to Bank 1 and adding the new 1MB sticks to Bank 0.

The hard drive is probably a Seagate, maybe Connor in the 20-65MB range (and may not even be IDE!).

A 256-or-512KB VGA card is probably installed, maybe a Video Seven offering.

Can't wait to find out how off the mark I am!

Fwiw the 286 in that case I have is a circa 1989 or 1990 system. They probably made that case for like 3 years. That, to me, points to 386SX.

It's 100% a 386sx IMO. DX's were expensive and business oriented (Compaq Deskpro, AcerPower, IBM).

Tax software and other financial products (like Quicken) were available in DOS, Windows 3.1. You didn't need much power.

I'd like to place my random wager on: 386sx-25.

Law212 wrote on Yesterday, 20:51:

either a 386DX-25/33, 4 Megs of 30 pin ram 50 to 100 MB HDD probably Connor Trident 8900 […]
Show full quote

either a 386DX-25/33,
4 Megs of 30 pin ram
50 to 100 MB HDD probably Connor
Trident 8900

Open it up!

I’ll go this route, too but with a 386SX33 or SX40 😀.

MYSTERIES REVEALED !

Part 1:

I don't have much time fiddle with this thing until sunday at earliest, but I did a dirty quick check, because I just couldn't handle the anxiety anymore 😁

So here are my findings, first overall look inside the case. Everything looks darn clean and new. At this point only thing that was clear is that this puppy has most likely 4MB RAM and it is most likely "full" 386:

First I removed the graphics card and it is what I think is the obvious choice considering when this system was built. These Trident 8900 cards often gets bashed due to their performance (or lack thereof), but for system like this they are IMO completely fine and especially very period correct. It is neat that this has full 1024kB installed:

Next I removed the bar so I could get the HDD out. PCB and most of the Chips had Quantum markings so I was anxious to see if my own guess about the HDD (52MB ProDrive which I had in my 386SX in around 1991) is correct. It turns out this is made by Quantum subsidiary Plus Development and it is a 52MB PlusImpulse IDE drive. These are much more rare compared to ProDrives and really didn't expect this. But I was so close!

Integrated IO, IDE and floppy controller has SMC and Winbond stuff in it. Nothing too interesting. Floppy cable is 5.25" variety and 3.5" floppy has a cable adapter:

And the MB which is revealed to be a Morse KP-386C, a pretty basic 386 board with C&T multichip chipset. All the chips I can see have date codes early 1991, so this system was probably built around spring 1991 or so. This is exactly what I was personally expecting. Gladly battery isn't Varta, this is one of those better japanese ones which don't puke out everything around the board. However, this is also starting to cook on one end so I need to remove it soon, hopefully sunday. Battery damage was something that I was dreading the most, but it seems I dodged the bullet:

Continues in next post...

Part 2:

Here we can see just little of the 385-25 CPU and empty FPU socket:

I finally tested the system. After setting up the BIOS stuff, everything including the HDD seems to work just fine so pretty much the only unknown is the floppy drive. I just quickly checked OS and it has DOS 5.0 which makes sense, but I don't have time to dig into it now:

And how about your guesses? Many of you had good resoning and definitely on the track, but I think Law212 should consider a lucrative career in fortune telling or being an oracle. Yes, there is some ambiguity and slight mistakes, but hey, every good fortune teller has just the right amount of ambiguity. So Law212 deserves the coveted title of "Nostradamus of Retro Computing" or what do you think?

Law212 wrote on Yesterday, 20:51:

either a 386DX-25/33, 4 Megs of 30 pin ram 50 to 100 MB HDD probably Connor Trident 8900 […]
Show full quote

either a 386DX-25/33,
4 Megs of 30 pin ram
50 to 100 MB HDD probably Connor
Trident 8900

Open it up!

So, I'll fix the battery first and then it is time to add some stuff in it (sound card(s), NIC etc.) and put this system to proper work. It is a neat machine and proper 386s from this era are getting increasingly rare. I probably post more in system specs when I have time to work on this.

It was fun reading your guesses and even more your reasoning how you came to your conclusions. Even though not necessarily correct in this case, they tend to tell about our personal histories with these machines. So big thanks to everyone!

Very Cool. Its funny that I have that same Hard drive at home and was looking at it last night though mine is the 100 MB version
Thats a great looking system and you just need to add a sound card and you have a great DOS gaming system right there.

CharlieFoxtrot wrote on Today, 14:47:

Integrated IO, IDE and floppy controller has SMC and Winbond stuff in it. Nothing too interesting. Floppy cable is 5.25" variety […]
Show full quote

Integrated IO, IDE and floppy controller has SMC and Winbond stuff in it. Nothing too interesting. Floppy cable is 5.25" variety and 3.5" floppy has a cable adapter:

The attachment IO card.jpg is no longer available

And the MB which is revealed to be a Morse KP-386C, a pretty basic 386 board with C&T multichip chipset. All the chips I can see have date codes early 1991, so this system was probably built around spring 1991 or so. This is exactly what I was personally expecting. Gladly battery isn't Varta, this is one of those better japanese ones which don't puke out everything around the board. However, this is also starting to cook on one end so I need to remove it soon, hopefully sunday. Battery damage was something that I was dreading the most, but it seems I dodged the bullet:

The attachment MB Model.jpg is no longer available

Continues in next post...

Well, the chips were fabbed on that IO card as late as 30th week of 91. That means those chips had to go to the board maker, and then to the system assembler. I'd say very late '91 or early-ish 92 when this system was actually built and ready to purchase. A fairly late era 386 system. Pretty decent specs for a 386! Despite the hard drive being small though. But certainly big enough and ideal for DOS 5 and Win3.0. Most people still were backing up their files to floppy.

looks like you just got it in time before that battery corrosion spread.

Cool, 25Mhz is not bad for 386 stuff. 16 is tooth grinding, 20 is sedate, 25 feels like it woke up, 33-40 tempts you to try too much 486 stuff and be disappointed.

Those 8900C aren't as fast as the D but a decent improvement over the B.

Few guys on here have encountered the KP-386C motherboard.

So that would be the 2nd company Quantum sold their drives under.

The other would be Nikimi, circa late 90s - I have a 8.4GB LCT that's been rebranded as a Nikimi NIK-XL84A.

I have the same exact video card installed on my 486-DX4, and I'm very happy with it. And based on the benchmarks I saw on YT for DOS gaming, the ET4000's performance is slightly better than this card. Also, the fact that it produces a very sharp image is a plus point in my book. So I don't understand the hate this card gets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJgQJaqmPx4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6m5IxZYqzg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDCCBYhvGWw

Nice. A real Intel DX is the last thing I expected, to be honest.

This will be a nice machine.

Darn, so close. The SX cpu's just seem so prolific, I couldnt bring myself to pick the DX.