This is awesome news! I will open a new thread 😀 thanks for the insight!
Apologies for the double post. A question: do you know whether the Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 virtualizes surround sound for headphones?
I believe CMSS-3D wasn’t a thing at the time.
I would install two sound cards of which one would be the Live! so I could get EAX occlusion in BG2 (and BG1 as well when playing with the BGT mod). Since BG with EAX would output surround sound, I was wondering whether the Live! would virtualize it for me (I game exclusively with headphones)
CMSS-3D was introduced with EAX and the SB-Live line, as far as I remember. It's been a part of their software offerings ever since.
the actually cool version of CMSS-3D, the one that does not just do virtual surround but full 360-degree binaural hrtf with elevation filters and everything, I think was only available exclusively for the x-fi, and the older cmss-3d in the audigy 2 couldn't do that?
AndreaColombo86 wrote on 2026-05-22, 11:20:Apologies for the double post. A question: do you know whether the Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 virtualizes surround sound for headphones?
I believe CMSS-3D wasn’t a thing at the time.
It's been a while since I used a SBLive in one of my builds, but from what I remember, the drivers of those cards don't offer a dedicated control interface for CMSS. At least under Win9x, not sure about WinXP. What I do know is that a SBLive card will auto-expand stereo sources to surround if you have 5.1 speakers connected to it and configure the speaker settings for 5.1 surround. For example, if you put a standard audio CD into your PC and play it, the music will come from both your front and rear speakers. There's no way to turn that off, other than manually setting your speaker configuration to 2.1. For that reason, I gave up on SBLive cards, and switched to the Audigy line for Win9x gaming, as they allow for turning CMSS on/off as needed from the driver panel.
And yeah, as others have mentioned, CMSS-3D Headphone works best on X-Fi cards. From what I understand, the X-Fi version of that feature is more advanced than the one used on Audigy cards. I haven't done a direct comparison between the two, as I use 5.1 speakers most of the time, but maybe someone else can provide more details.
God Of Gaming wrote on 2026-05-22, 11:42:the actually cool version of CMSS-3D, the one that does not just do virtual surround but full 360-degree binaural hrtf with elevation filters and everything, I think was only available exclusively for the x-fi, and the older cmss-3d in the audigy 2 couldn't do that?
Audigy 2 and it's X-Fi successor are definitely the cards you'd want to use - better DSP effects and software for gaming - over the Live and would certainly offer better gaming performance than the Live series, but X-Fi is really the ideal choice. I don't know the full ins and outs of the DSP effects performance between Live and it's successors, but I do know that X-Fi definitely checks all the boxes for audio quality and performance, so long as your system is solid enough to work it.
Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2026-05-22, 11:53:...
It's been a while since I used a SBLive in one of my builds, but from what I remember, the drivers of those cards don't offer a dedicated control interface for CMSS. At least under Win9x, not sure about WinXP. What I do know is that a SBLive card will auto-expand stereo sources to surround if you have 5.1 speakers connected to it and configure the speaker settings for 5.1 surround. For example, if you put a standard audio CD into your PC and play it, the music will come from both your front and rear speakers. There's no way to turn that off, other than manually setting your speaker configuration to 2.1. For that reason, I gave up on SBLive cards, and switched to the Audigy line for Win9x gaming, as they allow for turning CMSS on/off as needed from the driver panel.
...
This is not entirely true at least not for the older Liveware 3 drivers. Actually the SB Live drivers have a unique feature that I miss in later cards/drivers. That is you can position every source (including Wave, MIDI, Line-in , CD, Microphone etc.) in 3D space through an intuitive GUI. This way you can position your CD to sound only through the front (or even only through the back) speakers.
Falcosoft wrote on 2026-05-22, 12:17:This is not entirely true at least not for the older Liveware 3 drivers. Actually the SB Live drivers have a unique feature that I miss in later cards/drivers. That is you can position every source (including Wave, Line-in , CD, Microphone etc.) in 3D space through an intuitive GUI. This way you can position your CD to sound only through front (or even only through back!) speakers.
Interesting, it's possible that different (older?) driver versions have those options.
The only SBLive cards that I have are the SB0100 and the SB0220, both of which are among the "newer" models. I installed the VxD drivers from the accompanying discs for both cards, and I don't remember having those options available. Or maybe I just didn't check all the settings thoroughly.
Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2026-05-22, 12:37:Falcosoft wrote on 2026-05-22, 12:17:This is not entirely true at least not for the older Liveware 3 drivers. Actually the SB Live drivers have a unique feature that I miss in later cards/drivers. That is you can position every source (including Wave, Line-in , CD, Microphone etc.) in 3D space through an intuitive GUI. This way you can position your CD to sound only through front (or even only through back!) speakers.
Interesting, it's possible that different (older?) driver versions have those options.
The only SBLive cards that I have are the SB0100 and the SB0220, both of which are among the "newer" models. I installed the VxD drivers from the accompanying discs for both cards, and I don't remember having those options available. Or maybe I just didn't check all the settings thoroughly.
The newer Audigy like drivers with the 'blue' user interface miss this feature but the older 'black & yellow' drivers have this feature.
BTW, I also have a newer SBLive 5.1 (SB0100) and it came with the 'black & yellow' drivers with this feature included.
AndreaColombo86 wrote on 2026-05-22, 11:20:Apologies for the double post. A question: do you know whether the Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 virtualizes surround sound for headphones?
I believe CMSS-3D wasn’t a thing at the time.
It's been a while, but some kind of virtual surround got switched on if you set your output to headphone mode in Windows 98SE using Live! 5.1. I personally thought it sounded awful and promptly switched it off.
I don't remember it being called CMSS-3D in the settings, but that might be just me misremembering. I wasn't a fan at any rate.
Falcosoft wrote on 2026-05-22, 12:44:The newer Audigy like drivers with the 'blue' user interface miss this feature but the older 'black & yellow' drivers have this feature.
BTW, I also have a newer SBLive 5.1 (SB0100) and it came with the 'black & yellow' drivers with this feature included.
Out of curiosity, I put my SB0100 in a test rig, and installed the drivers from this CD which was uploaded by fellow Vogons user @boxpressed. That's the disc I had been using in the past as well.
With that driver CD, I do get the "black & yellow" interface, but I don't have the "Mixer" option that is present in your screenshot. I'm guessing the LiveWare version on that CD is either too new or too old. I'll try a few other driver versions and report back.
Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2026-05-22, 15:30:Falcosoft wrote on 2026-05-22, 12:44:The newer Audigy like drivers with the 'blue' user interface miss this feature but the older 'black & yellow' drivers have this feature.
BTW, I also have a newer SBLive 5.1 (SB0100) and it came with the 'black & yellow' drivers with this feature included.Out of curiosity, I put my SB0100 in a test rig, and installed the drivers from this CD which was uploaded by fellow Vogons user @boxpressed. That's the disc I had been using in the past as well.
With that driver CD, I do get the "black & yellow" interface, but I don't have the "Mixer" option that is present in your screenshot. I'm guessing the LiveWare version on that CD is either too new or too old. I'll try a few other driver versions and report back.
It's the 'Sorround Mixer' component (Ctsurmix.exe) and you have to click the 'EAX' button on the left hand side of the Mixer to get that view. It works the same way on Win9x and WinXP.
Here is my version that works on both Win9x and WinXp with my SB Live 5.1 (SB0100). Of course I do not know if it can work with your specific driver version or not.
Falcosoft wrote on 2026-05-22, 15:52:It's the 'Sorround Mixer' component (Ctsurmix.exe) and you have to click the 'EAX' button on the left hand side of the Mixer to get that view. It works the same way on Win9x and WinXP.
Here is my version that works on both Win9x and WinXp with my SB Live 5.1 (SB0100). Of course I do not know if it can work with your specific driver version or not.
Ahh, I didn't realize the EAX logo was an actual button that you can click. 😁
I just tested it, and it works fine with the drivers from the CD that I linked to earlier. Thanks for the clarification!
Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2026-05-22, 16:12:Ahh, I didn't realize the EAX logo was an actual button that you can click. :D […]
Falcosoft wrote on 2026-05-22, 15:52:It's the 'Sorround Mixer' component (Ctsurmix.exe) and you have to click the 'EAX' button on the left hand side of the Mixer to get that view. It works the same way on Win9x and WinXP.
Here is my version that works on both Win9x and WinXp with my SB Live 5.1 (SB0100). Of course I do not know if it can work with your specific driver version or not.Ahh, I didn't realize the EAX logo was an actual button that you can click. 😁
I just tested it, and it works fine with the drivers from the CD that I linked to earlier. Thanks for the clarification!
I'm glad it worked!
It's really sad that this advanced 'Sources to Speakers' router was removed from later drivers/cards. AFAIK even on the X-Fi you cannot do similar routing (e.g. listen to Line-in only from the back speakers while listen to MIDI only from the front speakers at the same time. I have used such/similar setup for real time guitar jamming).
For those who experienced both, would you say A3D 2.0 still has an edge over EAX 4.0/5.0?
What are the best A3D 2.0 titles?
AndreaColombo86 wrote on Today, 13:18:For those who experienced both, would you say A3D 2.0 still has an edge over EAX 4.0/5.0?
Personally, I think the EAX implementation in games like Thief: Deadly Shadows, Quake 4 and Battlefield 2 comes very close to A3D 2.0. Possibly even surpassing it in some cases. But this is a bit subjective and kinda hard to quantify, so others may disagree.
AndreaColombo86 wrote on Today, 13:18:What are the best A3D 2.0 titles?
I haven't played a ton of them, but Quake 3 with patch v1.17 (the last version which supported A3D) sounded excellent via headphones. Same for the original Unreal. For me, the main drawback of A3D is that you often need a specific driver version and a certain game patch for everything to work as intended. Otherwise, popping and scratching sounds may appear (e.g. in Thief 1&2). Despite having my Turtle Beach Montego II for almost six years now, I haven't really been that interested in A3D. Mainly because of the aforementioned driver hassle, but also because I prefer to use 5.1 speakers instead of headphones (A3D sounds best on the latter).
There are a bunch of A3D 1 games and a handful of 2 and 3 titles. I only have some personal experience with 1 - via integrated A3D audio on mobo - and found it to be great. When it came to dedicated cards, I stuck with the SoundBlaster line and EAX, though I didn't game on headphones like most did, so the experience wasn't as great for me.
Thank you for that list. I was unaware A3D 3.0 existed. What we could have had…!
Some games are reported as having A3D 3.0 support but I doubt that’s true. The standard was released shortly before Aureal closed up shop.
Also, some of the games in the list inaccurately report supporting A3D 2.0 (e.g. Baldur’s Gate 2).
There are games I could be interested in if they actually supported A3D 2.0:
- Neverwinter Nights
- Unreal 2
- Unreal Tournament
Does anybody know whether they do support it?
Apologies for derailing the thread with something only tangentially related, but I figured most audio aficionados who would know this stuff would hang around here.
Joseph—so it’s not like I can install the latest driver and call it a day?
AndreaColombo86 wrote on Today, 15:34:There are games I could be interested in if they actually supported A3D 2.0: […]
There are games I could be interested in if they actually supported A3D 2.0:
- Neverwinter Nights
- Unreal 2
- Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament does support A3D 2.0. You can check that for yourself by typing s_wavetracing into the console. It will output something like this screenshot from Unreal Gold. Not really sure about the other two, but I think Neverwinter Nights had an A3D option thanks to using the Miles Sound System. However, I never tested that game on a Vortex 2 card, so I can't say how that sounds.
AndreaColombo86 wrote on Today, 15:34:Joseph—so it’s not like I can install the latest driver and call it a day?
IIRC, the very latest Vortex 2 drivers are buggy, and should be avoided. I don't remember the exact details, but maybe someone else can chime in. Version 2041 is the one most recommended by the community, but I had problems with it in a few games like Thief, and had to downgrade even further. But if you downgrade too much, then some A3D 2.0 games like Deus Ex stop working, so it's kind of a mess.
AndreaColombo86 wrote on Today, 15:34:Thank you for that list. I was unaware A3D 3.0 existed. What we could have had…! […]
Thank you for that list. I was unaware A3D 3.0 existed. What we could have had…!
Some games are reported as having A3D 3.0 support but I doubt that’s true. The standard was released shortly before Aureal closed up shop.
Also, some of the games in the list inaccurately report supporting A3D 2.0 (e.g. Baldur’s Gate 2).
There are games I could be interested in if they actually supported A3D 2.0:
- Neverwinter Nights
- Unreal 2
- Unreal TournamentDoes anybody know whether they do support it?
Apologies for derailing the thread with something only tangentially related, but I figured most audio aficionados who would know this stuff would hang around here.
Joseph—so it’s not like I can install the latest driver and call it a day?
Some of the games on that list... don't even exist (X-Com: Alliance?), so always take it with a grain of salt. A3D 3.0 AFAIK also doesn't exist. Perhaps planned, but by that time Creative had already brutalized Aureal.
