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need idea: what can i do with a 286?

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Reply 140 of 159, by rasz_pl

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AlexZ wrote on 2026-05-31, 21:03:

Anybody tried Star Wars: X-Wing (1993) or Star Wars: Tie Fighter (1994) on 286?

Both solid 386DX40 games.

https://github.com/raszpl/sigrok-disk FM/MFM/RLL decoder
https://github.com/raszpl/FIC-486-GAC-2-Cache-Module (AT&T Globalyst)
https://github.com/raszpl/386RC-16 ram board
https://github.com/raszpl/Zenith_ZBIOS Zenith Z-386 MFM-300 ZBIOS disassembly

Reply 142 of 159, by megatron-uk

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Wing Commander works reasonably on a (fast) 286, but X-Wing is asking too much. There's a lot more maths going on there than with the bitmap based WC.

Obligatory video of my other 286 (20MHz) playing Wing Commander:

https://youtu.be/A9MOGpapktI?si=5QFqVz4s7zhjjqBP

I'd say it was at the bottom end of playable, but it is playable.

I remember the trench run in particular on X-Wing absolutely crushing my 386 SX-40 at the time.

My collection database and technical wiki:
https://www.target-earth.net

Reply 143 of 159, by rmay635703

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megatron-uk wrote on 2026-05-31, 22:51:
Wing Commander works reasonably on a (fast) 286, but X-Wing is asking too much. There's a lot more maths going on there than wit […]
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Wing Commander works reasonably on a (fast) 286, but X-Wing is asking too much. There's a lot more maths going on there than with the bitmap based WC.

Obligatory video of my other 286 (20MHz) playing Wing Commander:

https://youtu.be/A9MOGpapktI?si=5QFqVz4s7zhjjqBP

I'd say it was at the bottom end of playable, but it is playable.

I remember the trench run in particular on X-Wing absolutely crushing my 386 SX-40 at the time.

https://dosdays.co.uk/media/games/xwing/X-Wing-QRCard.pdf

Mentions 286 needing physical EMS which is wierd

Reply 144 of 159, by theelf

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rmay635703 wrote on 2026-06-01, 05:58:
megatron-uk wrote on 2026-05-31, 22:51:
Wing Commander works reasonably on a (fast) 286, but X-Wing is asking too much. There's a lot more maths going on there than wit […]
Show full quote

Wing Commander works reasonably on a (fast) 286, but X-Wing is asking too much. There's a lot more maths going on there than with the bitmap based WC.

Obligatory video of my other 286 (20MHz) playing Wing Commander:

https://youtu.be/A9MOGpapktI?si=5QFqVz4s7zhjjqBP

I'd say it was at the bottom end of playable, but it is playable.

I remember the trench run in particular on X-Wing absolutely crushing my 386 SX-40 at the time.

https://dosdays.co.uk/media/games/xwing/X-Wing-QRCard.pdf

Mentions 286 needing physical EMS which is wierd

recently i bought a 286 with HT18 chipset that support physical EMS

I dont have any interest in xwing style games, but is ones i need to test

They are some good games that need ems and work fine in 286, like Dreamweb

Last edited by theelf on 2026-06-02, 05:56. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 145 of 159, by DEAT

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Damn, this thread got a lot more activity than I was expecting.

Exploit wrote on 2026-05-19, 00:35:

You don't seem to get it. Overclocking your 286 makes it useless for these timing-sensitive games because they'll just run way too fast. That's why you keep the 286 at its standard clock speeds of <= 16 MHz and leave the performance crown to the faster CPUs of that era for games where this isn't a problem.

But ultimately, I don't care if you mess up your 286 while the 486 is sitting right next to it for games where a higher clock speed isn't an issue. Do whatever you want, my statement remains correct.

You're the one who is dense. You keep mentioning OVERCLOCKING IS BAD!!! 286s NEVER GO ABOVE 16Mhz when 20Mhz and 25Mhz CPUs existed, which were manufactured by Harris. These are all photos from recent listings from eBay:

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Do you notice something that all of these have in common? I doubt that you do, so I'll point out that all of these have a 40Mhz oscillator crystal that is soldered on to the motherboard. You can figure out why that's relevant.

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And finally, some 25Mhz CPUs.

Now going back to your original post with your two fine examples of Wing Commander and Black Gold as being games that absolutely MUST NOT GO ABOVE A 16Mhz 286 - really? A popular game where the general consensus on these forums forever has been that a 33Mhz 386 is ideal, and a managerial strategy game? You're advocating for half the speed on Wing Commander?

Nah, your first post is still bullshit, but the real problem is your tone about never going above 16Mhz while needing to bold the statement like it's some kind of authoritative declaration - that attitude can go in the trash.

theelf wrote on 2026-05-23, 20:44:

ohh nice website thanks

Thanks! I still need to get around to updating it, but I've been bouncing around too many projects lately.

Shponglefan wrote on 2026-05-31, 22:39:

Minimum specs for both X-Wing and Tie Fighter is a 386. Tie Fighter in particular listed a DX-33 as minimum requirements.

I've mentioned this several times in the past, but a good number of requirements listed on boxes around ~1993 are false. You can run X-Wing on a V20, but it's a lot more playable on a 25Mhz 286. You can run Master of Orion on a V20 with a 2MB EMS card, I'm 95% certain you can run Master of Magic and 1830: Railroads and Robber Barons on a V20, but it requires 2.7MB of EMS(!!!) and I don't have a 4MB EMS card that is 8-bit ISA compatible. Lords of the Realm 1 mentions a 386 requirement but it runs on a 8088!

megatron-uk wrote on 2026-05-31, 22:51:

Obligatory video of my other 286 (20MHz) playing Wing Commander:

https://youtu.be/A9MOGpapktI?si=5QFqVz4s7zhjjqBP

I'd say it was at the bottom end of playable, but it is playable.

According to Exploit, this setup is illegal and overclocking 286s is against the law. You must cease this activity and run it on a 16Mhz 286, netizen!

win16.page | Twitch

Reply 146 of 159, by MarmotaArmy

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DaveDDS wrote on 2026-05-29, 20:19:

DDLINK server - If you want to be able to move data between multiple systems which might not have networking software setup - this can work well. Also, DOS has the advantage that you can set it up so you can remotely power it ON/OFF and not trsash it. I have one setup with a couple wireless remote controls - I can remotely fire it up - transfer "stuff" to it, then grab that stuff from another locsation (saves a lot of going up/down stairs just to poewr-ON normally OFF systems)

Independant second screen - I often DDLINK source and related files to one of my DOS systems just so I can get them up on it's monitor while I work on them at and adjecent system - don't have to worry about focus or "popping" up something like TFB (TsrFileBrowser).

As soon as I have some time I'll try DDLink

Reply 147 of 159, by ArbysTPossum

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Jo22 wrote on 2026-05-29, 06:05:

A NEC V20 with FastV20 utility might make a difference! 😁

I have scoured google for whatever this is you're talking about, because it sounds really interesting, and I've come up empty handed. Whispers of a 10% performance boost.

Put a heatsink on it ™®©

Reply 148 of 159, by BitWrangler

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ArbysTPossum wrote on 2026-06-02, 17:44:
Jo22 wrote on 2026-05-29, 06:05:

A NEC V20 with FastV20 utility might make a difference! 😁

I have scoured google for whatever this is you're talking about, because it sounds really interesting, and I've come up empty handed. Whispers of a 10% performance boost.

It is starting to seem that pages with no advertising, i.e. revenue generation are no longer indexed and becoming difficult to find. Here is an easy to find copy https://ftpmirror.your.org/pub/misc/dos/RbbsI … 0.ZIP-contents/
But it should be in numerous simtel archives and other mirrors too that google is ignoring these days.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 149 of 159, by theelf

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BitWrangler wrote on 2026-06-02, 18:06:
ArbysTPossum wrote on 2026-06-02, 17:44:
Jo22 wrote on 2026-05-29, 06:05:

A NEC V20 with FastV20 utility might make a difference! 😁

I have scoured google for whatever this is you're talking about, because it sounds really interesting, and I've come up empty handed. Whispers of a 10% performance boost.

It is starting to seem that pages with no advertising, i.e. revenue generation are no longer indexed and becoming difficult to find. Here is an easy to find copy https://ftpmirror.your.org/pub/misc/dos/RbbsI … 0.ZIP-contents/
But it should be in numerous simtel archives and other mirrors too that google is ignoring these days.

Hi in fact the utility did not need a V20 , just change dram timmings

greetings

Reply 150 of 159, by BitWrangler

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Yes it might be of dubious value in systems that have a better configuration system or that came shipped with a V20 and had appropriate timings "baked in". I think it's mainly of use in systems that have be upgraded with a V20 later.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 151 of 159, by theelf

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BitWrangler wrote on 2026-06-02, 18:34:

Yes it might be of dubious value in systems that have a better configuration system or that came shipped with a V20 and had appropriate timings "baked in". I think it's mainly of use in systems that have be upgraded with a V20 later.

Work well in my harris 25 286 PC, can get like 2-3% improvement

Reply 152 of 159, by Exploit

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DEAT wrote on 2026-06-01, 23:42:

You're the one who is dense. You keep mentioning OVERCLOCKING IS BAD!!! 286s NEVER GO ABOVE 16Mhz ...

I'd say you either learn how to read or stop lying!

I said that Intel didn't produce any 286 CPU with more than 16 MHz, and that statement is correct. I didn't talk about other CPU manufacturers here. I never made a statement that there were never 286s faster CPUs, so stop putting words in my mouth and stop lying, which is exactly what you are doing right now.

And my statement also remains correct that overclocking a 286 is not a good idea if a better 386 or 486 is available, because there are games that run too fast on the latter two and perfectly on a correctly clocked 286, and you simply don't seem to grasp this fact.

To explain this to someone who is as slow on the uptake as you and who lies: Some old games use timing loops that don't check the system time (PIT). Instead, they just execute a loop directly on the CPU, and you can't slow them down properly using TSR tools like "slowdown.exe". As a result, animations or, even worse, the actual gameplay utilizing these loops will run way too fast on a 33 MHz 486 CPU. Oil Imperium (Black Gold) is one such game. For instance, you have to drill for oil, which is one of the most important minigames. You must keep the drill bit centered while drilling through different layers of earth, and as a gameplay element, the drill violently jerks up, down, left, and right. All of this is controlled by these timing loops that you can't throttle properly with slowdown & Co. The consequence is that on a CPU that is too fast, the drill bit drifts off target too often and breaks. Your drilling attempt, which costs money in the game, is a total failure. This makes the game unplayable on a CPU that is too fast. A 286 clocked at 16 MHz or less has exactly the right speed for this game. This is a fact.

The same applies to Wing Commander 1. It also features these timing loops that don't query the system clock and simply execute loops instead. I was able to play this game perfectly on my 286. However, on my subsequent 33 MHz 486DX, which, like any 486 of that era, features 8 KiB of L1 cache and a 5-stage pipeline, it ran at an unplayable speed because the Kilrathi fighters dashed across the screen far too fast to handle.
Wing Commander 2 resolved this issue entirely because it finally queried the system timer to dynamically scale its delay loops.

So, I hope that someone like you, who takes a bit longer to understand and who lies, finally gets it. I’ve certainly explained it to you in enough detail now. A normally clocked 286 is best used for games like these, while a 486 or better should be used for games that scream for performance. Thus, you need a 286 that is not overclocked. If you don't have games like that, then of course you can do whatever you want with your 286. But I have already said all of this.

Reply 153 of 159, by MagefromAntares

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Exploit wrote on 2026-06-05, 15:41:

I said that Intel didn't produce any 286 CPU with more than 16 MHz, and that statement is correct.

Hi,

While I don't want to get involved in this debate, because I like constructive debates and it seems to me that the heat in this debate has got over the point where it is no longer constructive. I have to mention that Intel itself didn't produce any 286 CPUs above 12.5 Mhz, the 16 Mhz ones was actually made by Harris and rebranded by Intel to fill in a position in their line-up, so it might have Intel printed on it, but they weren't actually "produced" by Intel, in-fact they bought chips with Harris branding already on it and had to remove the original printing on it, sometimes the original Harris printing is partly visible when inspected closely.
(For confirmation multiple sources can be checked, for example, no Intel chips above 12.5Mhz present at The Retro Web: https://theretroweb.com/chips?chipManufacture … ilyIds%5B0%5D=2, also checking any official datasheet printed by Intel you cannot find a 286 above 12.5Mhz in them)

"A process cannot be understood by stopping it. Understanding must move with the flow of the process, must join it and flow with it." - Dune

Reply 155 of 159, by Exploit

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MagefromAntares wrote on 2026-06-05, 16:37:
Exploit wrote on 2026-06-05, 15:41:

I said that Intel didn't produce any 286 CPU with more than 16 MHz, and that statement is correct.

I have to mention that Intel itself didn't produce any 286 CPUs above 12.5 Mhz, the 16 Mhz ones was actually made by Harris and rebranded by Intel to fill in a position in their line-up, so it might have Intel printed on it, but they weren't actually "produced" by Intel, in-fact they bought chips with Harris branding already on it and had to remove the original printing on it, sometimes the original Harris printing is partly visible when inspected closely.
(For confirmation multiple sources can be checked, for example, no Intel chips above 12.5Mhz present at The Retro Web: https://theretroweb.com/chips?chipManufacture … ilyIds%5B0%5D=2, also checking any official datasheet printed by Intel you cannot find a 286 above 12.5Mhz in them)

Thanks for the additional support. So I was correct from the very beginning:

Exploit wrote on 2026-05-27, 12:23:

Intel already had 12.5 MHz available as early as 1985, and AMD supplied 16 MHz starting in 1986.

Exploit wrote on 2026-05-29, 19:02:

The AMD CPU is just a guess of mine, because Intel never manufactured a 286 CPU with a 16 MHz clock speed.

Problems like today's happen when you cross-check your reasoning (12.5 MHz) with AI to make sure you don't say anything wrong, and then the AI suddenly explains to you that Intel also had 16 MHz 286 CPUs. I could have saved myself the trouble of revising my comment today, because that's exactly where I originally wrote 12.5 MHz.

Reply 156 of 159, by Jo22

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I'm a bit confused why people care so much about what intel did or didn't.
Where I live, the 80286 was mainly produced by Siemens and intel was sort of irrelevant.
If memory serves, it were other companies which advanced 8086 and 80286 designs.
An I'm not just thinking about NEC here..
There was an CMOS version of the 8088 made by OKI as early as 1981! 😃
Edit: Correction, it was 1979, even. The same year Alien hit the cinemas.

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In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 157 of 159, by rasz_pl

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Intel also never made 386 above 33MHz, 486 above 100MHz and Socket7 desktop cpu above 233MHz. There goes ~50% of forum posts I guess, its all illegal now! 😀

https://github.com/raszpl/sigrok-disk FM/MFM/RLL decoder
https://github.com/raszpl/FIC-486-GAC-2-Cache-Module (AT&T Globalyst)
https://github.com/raszpl/386RC-16 ram board
https://github.com/raszpl/Zenith_ZBIOS Zenith Z-386 MFM-300 ZBIOS disassembly

Reply 158 of 159, by BitWrangler

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Jo22 wrote on 2026-06-05, 23:33:
I'm a bit confused why people care so much about what intel did or didn't. Where I live, the 80286 was mainly produced by Siemen […]
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I'm a bit confused why people care so much about what intel did or didn't.
Where I live, the 80286 was mainly produced by Siemens and intel was sort of irrelevant.
If memory serves, it were other companies which advanced 8086 and 80286 designs.
An I'm not just thinking about NEC here..
There was an CMOS version of the 8088 made by OKI as early as 1981! 😃
Edit: Correction, it was 1979, even. The same year Alien hit the cinemas.

I think it was that OKI or anyone else made the 8088 that ensured the IBM PC used it, they were big on having everything second sourced at the time. A decade later and Intel must have forgot with it's fervor to stop any of it's new designs having an equivalent. "Yeah, we wanna be motorola and maybe miss out on an application because we wouldn't second source." 🤣

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 159 of 159, by rmay635703

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rasz_pl wrote on 2026-06-06, 00:59:

Intel also never made 386 above 33MHz, 486 above 100MHz and Socket7 desktop cpu above 233MHz. There goes ~50% of forum posts I guess, its all illegal now! 😀

It is very probable that Intels entry chip the 386sx would have never sold in a higher clocking if it weren’t for the Harris 286-25 and the amd 386sx

Intel making a usable celeron (ergo 300a ) at a consumer friendly price would have likely never occurred if it weren’t for AMDs higher speed k6-2 chips