Naturally we are not discussing a small programmer making their fast clean code at home or a small studio producing in house software, not sure anyone actually suggested that.

I think we know who we are talking about here, the likes of nVidia and Microslop who both currently use AI to "Vibe" code their output, who both use massive monolithic libraries that have dozens of dependencies that make even the smallest of programs require gigabytes of both ram and drive space. The big companies that release a dozen updates that are broken because their own programming team have no idea what the AI code is actually doing or what's in the libraries and thus need to rewrite the code to make it work correctly.

These are who we are discussing here, teams that should know better but continue to follow lazy practises. I'm not blaming AI here, Claude Code can be incredibly useful but AI output is based on the input from the user, great input and a knowledgeable user will produce code far superior to a lazy programmer just wanting to get it done quickly and thinking the AI can do that for them.

In the end its not about reinventing the wheel its about knowing what a wheel is to begin with and how it works and if a random wheel off the shelf is the best option for your use case.

guys... the ram prices are STILL going up...

64gb ddr5 cl30 6000 that i have paid £238 is now 1200... so 5 times more expensive...

how can u build a new computer nowadays? that is just silly...

"that i have paid £238 "

I paid around 200aud late last year which i believe is less than £100

Trashbytes wrote on 2026-07-13, 23:17:

I think we know who we are talking about here, the likes of nVidia and Microslop who both currently use AI to "Vibe" code their output, who both use massive monolithic libraries that have dozens of dependencies that make even the smallest of programs require gigabytes of both ram and drive space. The big companies that release a dozen updates that are broken because their own programming team have no idea what the AI code is actually doing or what's in the libraries and thus need to rewrite the code to make it work correctly.

You never needed AI to do that. It just makes it easier.

bitzu101 wrote on 2026-07-14, 18:30:

guys... the ram prices are STILL going up...

64gb ddr5 cl30 6000 that i have paid £238 is now 1200... so 5 times more expensive...

how can u build a new computer nowadays? that is just silly...

the price of new PC must be approaching the price of a PC in the 1990's in terms of the proportion of average income it represents, though perhaps still less/cheaper than then for now.

there's a saying i've seen a few times online about the difference between now and the past (a few decades back):

past: necessities were cheaper and luxuries were expensive
present : necessities are expensive and luxuries are cheaper

based on housing and energy costs vs cost of a TV or similar as % of income

but now the PC is starting to become one of the more expensive 'luxuries' again, and other luxuries too.

SiBurning wrote on 2026-07-15, 03:13:

Trashbytes wrote on 2026-07-13, 23:17:

I think we know who we are talking about here, the likes of nVidia and Microslop who both currently use AI to "Vibe" code their output, who both use massive monolithic libraries that have dozens of dependencies that make even the smallest of programs require gigabytes of both ram and drive space. The big companies that release a dozen updates that are broken because their own programming team have no idea what the AI code is actually doing or what's in the libraries and thus need to rewrite the code to make it work correctly.

You never needed AI to do that. It just makes it easier.

I agree it does make it easier to release broken software and broken updates.

bitzu101 wrote on 2026-07-14, 18:30:

guys... the ram prices are STILL going up...

64gb ddr5 cl30 6000 that i have paid £238 is now 1200... so 5 times more expensive...

how can u build a new computer nowadays? that is just silly...

Unless you really have to... I would avoid buying at these prices. I for example am still operating on 16 GB od DDR3, and for my modest needs it works more than well. For someone dealing with any kind of demanding production work, the story would definitely be different.

You would have to be desperate to buy at these prices.
The AI bubble will burst. They are dumping billions of dollars into the tech to run the AI models but there is no clear way to make any money from all that investment. Google Gemini is a really good example of this, it had to change the terms for the £18.99 subscription because it was giving to much away. It changed it to terms which limit what a user can do, or the amount they get.
Theyre struggling to monetise their businesses.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2026-07-16, 10:00:

You would have to be desperate to buy at these prices.
The AI bubble will burst. They are dumping billions of dollars into the tech to run the AI models but there is no clear way to make any money from all that investment. Google Gemini is a really good example of this, it had to change the terms for the £18.99 subscription because it was giving to much away. It changed it to terms which limit what a user can do, or the amount they get.
Theyre struggling to monetise their businesses.

Sure itll burst but ...if past experience with GPUs is any indicator prices wont go back to pre bubble pricing.

Besides all the major fabs have retooled for HBM and have orders sold out till 2028 at this stage and they wont be able to retool back to DDR5 till at least late 2028. The AI bubble bursting isn't going to be as fast as the Dot Com bubble was, this one could take a while and I doubt the market fall out will be as front loaded as then either.

No I foresee us dealing with super shitty pricing for a good 5 year or more, Ram is also just one part of it, every thing hardware wise has gone into price gouging, from storage to power supplies we are not looking at a good time for DIY PCs.

I personally feel this has all been designed this way, nVidia clearly hit a wall in regards to how much raw uplift they can get from their tech and had to resort to using heavy AI to see any real improvement. Jensen is smart enough to see the writing on the wall and to take measures to make sure his company has a future.

So he with his buddies fabricates a problem so they can sell us the solution . .Eg streaming compute services.

Trashbytes wrote on 2026-07-16, 10:16:

Sure itll burst but ...if past experience with GPUs is any indicator prices wont go back to pre bubble pricing. […]
Show full quote

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2026-07-16, 10:00:

You would have to be desperate to buy at these prices.
The AI bubble will burst. They are dumping billions of dollars into the tech to run the AI models but there is no clear way to make any money from all that investment. Google Gemini is a really good example of this, it had to change the terms for the £18.99 subscription because it was giving to much away. It changed it to terms which limit what a user can do, or the amount they get.
Theyre struggling to monetise their businesses.

Sure itll burst but ...if past experience with GPUs is any indicator prices wont go back to pre bubble pricing.

Besides all the major fabs have retooled for HBM and have orders sold out till 2028 at this stage and they wont be able to retool back to DDR5 till at least late 2028. The AI bubble bursting isn't going to be as fast as the Dot Com bubble was, this one could take a while and I doubt the market fall out will be as front loaded as then either.

No I foresee us dealing with super shitty pricing for a good 5 year or more, Ram is also just one part of it, every thing hardware wise has gone into price gouging, from storage to power supplies we are not looking at a good time for DIY PCs.

I personally feel this has all been designed this way, nVidia clearly hit a wall in regards to how much raw uplift they can get from their tech and had to resort to using heavy AI to see any real improvement. Jensen is smart enough to see the writing on the wall and to take measures to make sure his company has a future.

So he with his buddies fabricates a problem so they can sell us the solution . .Eg streaming compute services.

No they wont.
The GPUs that are in high demand are not the GPUs people like gamers want to buy. Those will hit the market at a discount rate at first then once they all start folding there will be a fire sale. But desktop GPUs will remain high because demand will remain high. The companies making these enterprise GPUs are shifting production to supply the demand as so less desktop GPUs are being made.
Thats why the prices will stay high, you own demand.
That coupled with the fact that it will take a while for the companies to realise the ride has come to an end and they need to shift production to consumer level GPUs it will keep prices high until a recession.

GPUs is just an example, it counts for all the tech we use to build PCs.

Its not been designed this way, though it might look like that, it couldnt have been, they didnt know AI would become a thing before it became a thing.
nvidia jumped on it and in some ways fuelled it thats for sure with its enterprise level GPUs. Without them it wouldnt have been possible.
Thats why nvidia looked like it was pulling away from gamer cards. Its model of the next must be much better wasnt sustainable, not for nvidia but the ecosystem that sits around it.
Look at the power cable problems for instance. What they really needed was a case designed to hold the cards. GPU sag is another example. It needed an ecosystem to support its growth but has never had it, it couldnt share its ideas with case manufacturers otherwise its competition would get wind of it and ...

On the other hand there are not many people who can afford to buy the latest most powerful nvidia GPU. (pre bubble pricing) but they could afford to rent computing power. That guy who runs craft computing on youtube has proven this model and indeed has made a youtube channel on the back of the fact you dont need a local gpu to game. All you need is cheap crap and a powerful GPU somewhere, it doesnt have to be yours.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2026-07-16, 12:51:

No they wont. The GPUs that are in high demand are not the GPUs people like gamers want to buy. Those will hit the market at a d […]
Show full quote

Trashbytes wrote on 2026-07-16, 10:16:

Sure itll burst but ...if past experience with GPUs is any indicator prices wont go back to pre bubble pricing. […]
Show full quote

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2026-07-16, 10:00:

You would have to be desperate to buy at these prices.
The AI bubble will burst. They are dumping billions of dollars into the tech to run the AI models but there is no clear way to make any money from all that investment. Google Gemini is a really good example of this, it had to change the terms for the £18.99 subscription because it was giving to much away. It changed it to terms which limit what a user can do, or the amount they get.
Theyre struggling to monetise their businesses.

Sure itll burst but ...if past experience with GPUs is any indicator prices wont go back to pre bubble pricing.

Besides all the major fabs have retooled for HBM and have orders sold out till 2028 at this stage and they wont be able to retool back to DDR5 till at least late 2028. The AI bubble bursting isn't going to be as fast as the Dot Com bubble was, this one could take a while and I doubt the market fall out will be as front loaded as then either.

No I foresee us dealing with super shitty pricing for a good 5 year or more, Ram is also just one part of it, every thing hardware wise has gone into price gouging, from storage to power supplies we are not looking at a good time for DIY PCs.

I personally feel this has all been designed this way, nVidia clearly hit a wall in regards to how much raw uplift they can get from their tech and had to resort to using heavy AI to see any real improvement. Jensen is smart enough to see the writing on the wall and to take measures to make sure his company has a future.

So he with his buddies fabricates a problem so they can sell us the solution . .Eg streaming compute services.

No they wont.
The GPUs that are in high demand are not the GPUs people like gamers want to buy. Those will hit the market at a discount rate at first then once they all start folding there will be a fire sale. But desktop GPUs will remain high because demand will remain high. The companies making these enterprise GPUs are shifting production to supply the demand as so less desktop GPUs are being made.
Thats why the prices will stay high, you own demand.
That coupled with the fact that it will take a while for the companies to realise the ride has come to an end and they need to shift production to consumer level GPUs it will keep prices high until a recession.

GPUs is just an example, it counts for all the tech we use to build PCs.

Its not been designed this way, though it might look like that, it couldnt have been, they didnt know AI would become a thing before it became a thing.
nvidia jumped on it and in some ways fuelled it thats for sure with its enterprise level GPUs. Without them it wouldnt have been possible.
Thats why nvidia looked like it was pulling away from gamer cards. Its model of the next must be much better wasnt sustainable, not for nvidia but the ecosystem that sits around it.
Look at the power cable problems for instance. What they really needed was a case designed to hold the cards. GPU sag is another example. It needed an ecosystem to support its growth but has never had it, it couldnt share its ideas with case manufacturers otherwise its competition would get wind of it and ...

On the other hand there are not many people who can afford to buy the latest most powerful nvidia GPU. (pre bubble pricing) but they could afford to rent computing power. That guy who runs craft computing on youtube has proven this model and indeed has made a youtube channel on the back of the fact you dont need a local gpu to game. All you need is cheap crap and a powerful GPU somewhere, it doesnt have to be yours.

It has been designed this way and it happened exactly as they wanted it to, the entire AI thing has been known about for a long time they just never had a good way to push it to the masses.

AI was never actually the product, Compute was the product the entire time and AI handily requires a metric ton of it but don't believe for one second it needs the thousands of Data Centers they are building.
You know what does need the Data Centers ??
Selling Compute to people who can no longer afford PC hardware, on a monthly basis naturally at only $19.99 for 100 hours. These assholes LOVE recurring revenue streams and will sell their mother to get them or destroy an entire DIY market if it means they can sell it back to you as a subscription.

But sure go ahead and believe this all happened by accident or chance and that the oligarch's at the top with trillion dollar companies would never ever do something like PLAN ahead.

As for Subscription Streaming PCs ..over my cold dead corpse. I will sell everything and go off grid before I ever debase myself with a shitty Streaming PC, if I cant own it totally I don't want it.

This whole scenario played out with Jeff and his Pizza Party friends, people refused to believe the truth when it was presented to them ..these cretins at the top have zero morals or qualms about making you eat shit sandwiches and making you say you like it. (Just look at the utter horror GTA6 has become ...they are going to milk the gullible masses for every cent they can get, the same masses that love subscription services)

I dunno about that.

In the past year, we've gone from stuff that couldnt count fingers, to things that can make coherent fake movie scenes.

Is that a 'good' thing? I'll withhold judgement. That's not the point i'm raising. The one I am raising, is that this is demonstrative of them actively working on improving the tech, which precludes notions of planning.

The folks behind the push seem to have great difficulty with planning, which is why there is a bubble. There's not really a strong market for the services offered, with a very high price to provide.

The retooling time will be a big factor post bubble. There will be a glut of 'AI bullshit' on ebay, and very little consumer gear.

wierd_w wrote on 2026-07-16, 13:25:

I dunno about that.
In the past year, we've gone from stuff that couldnt count fingers, to things that can make coherent fake movie scenes.

That's a fallacy that AI bros were trying to use to convince investors, but that's not how LLM works. Long story short, it's a case of diminishing returns and at the point we are at now, the investment required for solving the smaller quirks AI has is simply not worth it (to the point it would be cheaper just to hire actual people to do things). IMHO, what the AI can do now is close to it's practical limit and lately that hunch seems to be correct as even their psychos (a.k.a. CEOs) are backing down from that argument.

Its not and wasnt the intent of nvidia to cause this, if they did then they didnt do it very well did they?
No, they did not see the arrival of ChatGPT in 2022. If they did they they were a bit slow out of the blocks for it.

The problem isnt that its at its limit, the problem is that the amount it costs to produce the result is higher than how much money people or companies will pay for it.

Thats why there is a bubble. They can spend money on it, more money than they can get back at the end of their spending.

The higher they go the harder they will fall.

Now , the big 3 are being investigated for conspiracy to commit fraud and for price gauging / monopoly.

bitzu101 wrote on 2026-07-22, 08:06:

Now , the big 3 are being investigated for conspiracy to commit fraud and for price gauging / monopoly.

Unfortunately this procedure will take a couple of years. And if they drag it out with the court procedures (which they all do) we're talking about 5 to 10+ years before they are convicted. By then we're all running in the cloud anyway. 😜

Yoghoo wrote on 2026-07-22, 08:31:

bitzu101 wrote on 2026-07-22, 08:06:

Now , the big 3 are being investigated for conspiracy to commit fraud and for price gauging / monopoly.

Unfortunately this procedure will take a couple of years. And if they drag it out with the court procedures (which they all do) we're talking about 5 to 10+ years before they are convicted. By then we're all running in the cloud anyway. 😜

that cloud is my biggest fear for the future. not owning our own pc s and all that... If we loose the hardware , then we loose everything.

It's a civil lawsuit apparently, so this won't lead to anything, even if successful. RAM companies have enough money to pay a minuscule fine and continue as nothing happened.

bitzu101 wrote on 2026-07-22, 08:06:

The higher they go the harder they will fall.

Now , the big 3 are being investigated for conspiracy to commit fraud and for price gauging / monopoly.

The reality is they will likely get slapped with yet another insignificant fine and told to stop being naughty.

These three are so rich and powerful that there is nothing the courts can do to them that will actually force them to behave, what we need is more smaller fabricators to enter the market and be given protection from being bought out or sold to the big three or any shell corps they own.

Right now any new memory fabricators outside of China are at the mercy of the cartel boys and are given zero protection from them. China as much as many hate them will actually protect their fledgling memory fabricators because they know full well that being held at gun point by the cartel boys is no way to progress.

Also China just doesn't give a toss about patents and neither should we, patents only serve to protect the wealthy corporations who have the finances to defend them in court, anyone else simply doesn't have the finances to protect their patents from the wealthy corporations in court or otherwise. That said, the courts of late have been pretty good about shutting down stupid patent trolling by Nintendo so perhaps things are changing.

So, the prior discourse on 'they will offer rented hardware' has a reality that has come to pass.

https://www.computerworld.com/article/4200023 … larna-deal.html

(Naturally, *it's Apple that's adopted it first, because they're 'so brave* but i'm sure the other bigbox makers will follow that pioneered path with gusto soon enough.)