VOGONS


First post, by Feanor_twh

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I connected an IDEtoCF drive bay configured as a slave to the main hard drive (since it allows this). This is useful because I can work on the computer normally and occasionally connect a CompactFlash card directly to IDE for low-level tasks without opening the case.

The problem: it doesn't work at all. I expected problems putting it in slave mode since CF drives don't seem to work well in that mode. But there's no way to get it to work as the master either, leaving the main drive as the slave; although both are detected correctly at boot, it produces multiple errors.

Does anyone know of a way to achieve this? Is there an adapter that works better, or am I trying to do something impossible?

DOS - Amstrad PC1512 NEC V30 640kb 128mb CF XTIDE
Win3.1 - IBM PS/ValuePoint 486DX2 8mb Tseng ET4000 2gb CF
Win98 - AT 386 case K6-III 400 128mb Voodoo3 2000 20gb SSD
WinME - Intel Dot Station (Paquito) PIII 750 256mb FX5200 128gb SSD
Wrong setup? Lmk plz

Reply 1 of 7, by ldeveraux

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If whatever adapter you're using isn't working in MASTER, there's a bigger problem, or the adapter is damaged.

Reply 2 of 7, by jakethompson1

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I've also experienced what you are saying--that when the adapter is jumpered as "Master" it cannot cooperate with a "Slave" hard drive on the same cable.
It's not always apparent whether these things are the adapter's or the card's fault.
A CompactFlash datasheet suggests the cards have CSEL# pin. When left floating, the card operates as "Slave" while when grounded it becomes "Master".

IDE drives sharing the same cable also use the PDIAG# and DASP# pins at powerup to handshake.

Beyond that, "master"/"slave" is in software, when the host flips a bit in the Drive/Head register to switch what drive it is accessing. It should be hard to mess that up, so I'm surprised they detect correctly in your situation (in mine, everything completely stops working when booting with a "slave" connected) but then fail later.

Reply 3 of 7, by NeoG_

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I think you will need to have 2 IDE channels and have the HDD and CF both as master on independent channels. If the CF is Channel 0 master it will take over and be the boot drive if inserted. If the CF is Channel 1 Master it will appear as a second dive and continue booting from the HDD when a CF is present.

I had to do this with my SD/IDE adapter as it can only work in Master.

98/DOS Rig: BabyAT AladdinV, K6-2+/550, V3 2000, 128MB PC100, 20GB HDD, 128GB SD2IDE, SB Live!, SB16-SCSI, PicoGUS, WP32 McCake, iNFRA CD, ZIP100
XP Rig: Lian Li PC-10 ATX, Gigabyte X38-DQ6, Core2Duo E6850, ATi HD5870, 2GB DDR2, 2TB HDD, X-Fi XtremeGamer

Reply 4 of 7, by jakethompson1

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Hello,
I can confirm:
a "Kingston 2GB 133X CompactFlash Elite Pro" works jumpered as "slave"
a "Transcend CompactFlash 80x 512MB" does not.
It's purely a card issue, not the adapter.

Reply 5 of 7, by jakethompson1

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In fact, with a WD 80GB IDE drive as "master,"
the Transcend 512MB CF with an adapter as "slave,"
and an ISA Multi-I/O card,
when an ATA IDENTIFY is performed against the Transcend CF, various bits are flipped in the response (concentrating specifically on the word Transcend, but it's everywhere). Different bits are flipped on each attempt. Replacing the rep insw to have some delays (out 80h,al for example) between each word read seems to reduce the bit flips, but not eliminate them.

Is there some inherent fight between pull-up/pull-down resistors and the opposite drive asserting data lines when two IDE drives are sharing one cable?

Reply 6 of 7, by Feanor_twh

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I finally found the solution:

Both devices (hard drive and IDEtoCF drive bay) are connected as master on the primary IDE channel. This way, without a CompactFlash card inserted, the main hard drive is recognized as master without issue, and when the CF card is inserted, it becomes master, disabling the hard drive.

It's not the most elegant solution, but it works, and it does exactly what I need. I tested booting from both devices, and it works.

DOS - Amstrad PC1512 NEC V30 640kb 128mb CF XTIDE
Win3.1 - IBM PS/ValuePoint 486DX2 8mb Tseng ET4000 2gb CF
Win98 - AT 386 case K6-III 400 128mb Voodoo3 2000 20gb SSD
WinME - Intel Dot Station (Paquito) PIII 750 256mb FX5200 128gb SSD
Wrong setup? Lmk plz

Reply 7 of 7, by jakethompson1

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I found some 4GB SanDisk CFs that I forgot I had ordered. They work as both "master" and "slave". So it's the card, not the adapter, that fails to work as "slave".