VOGONS


RG100 Does Socket 7

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First post, by swaaye

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thebigquestion.jpg
😁:D:D

We need a huge megathread of troubleshooting stuff from that era now methinks!!!

Last edited by swaaye on 2011-02-08, 04:08. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 1 of 58, by retro games 100

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🤣!!!

The good news is that this will happen! The even better news is that I really was thinking of doing some kind of mega (I am mean MEGA) trouble shooting / testing thread, which involves retesting everything I've bought from ebay over the last 2 years. (This consists of dozens of socket 7 boards! but mainly the non-Super socket variety, because I understand that the SS7 mobos aren't so great.) I will upload a photo of each item at a time, and benchmark it where appropriate, and include links to manuals, drivers, software, etc! Also, I'm really hoping that I can get a soldering station, and attempt to fix stuff like rotten caps.

The not quite so good news is that unfortunately I can't do this right now because I need a large slice of time to get this mega project moving. I estimate that I can start unpacking my boxes of retro fun and games in July.

However, to avoid disappointment, I've got a socket 7 mobo with an unusual graphics card problem, and I'll post back with the details today! 😀

Edit: The following issue has been solved. (See "Solved:" further down.)

I'm testing an MSI socket 7 board, model 5148, PCB VER:1.1B. The mobo's POST BIOS info is "W5148V1 V2.0 042497" and "06/17/97-i430TX (etc)". This BIOS version is fairly new, but I don't think it's the very latest. I'll attempt to flash it later, but for now I'm going to leave it because it's not a "standard" MSI board. The reason is because when you see the BIOS POST screen, it shows a splash screen that says "Viglen". So, this is an OEM board.

I'm using a classic Pentium 1 100mhz CPU, with 1 stick of 64MB SDRAM. The graphics card I'm using is the STB S3 Trio64v+ 2MB card, featured on the right hand side of the photo. (The card on the left is an STB S3 Nitro. I notice that some of the caps are on "long legs". I've seen that before on these Nitro cards. It's interesting. It's like an amateur has refitted them, but I actually think it's something done at the factory, because I've seen this on a bunch of these cards.)

Back to the Trio card: the graphics card acts strangely if I set the resolution to 800x600x16. The problem is that the graphics on the desktop and also in games are corrupted. It's hard to describe. It's like bits of pixels are left behind on the screen, all over the place. The system remains stable however. You can see what you're doing behind the messy graphics.

Solved: This is weird. I wrote the information above a few days ago, but did not post this message on Vogons because it wasn't a crucial show stopping problem. However, I decided to set up this hardware again for retesting, and now the situation above cannot be reproduced! 😊

Edit 2: Item of interest - you see the SIMM slots. On the left edge of them, just above that single cap near the PCI slot, there's a group of jumpers. This is to set the memory voltage. If you're using SIMMs, you set it to 5v, if you're using SDRAM, you need to set them to 3v.

Also, the configuration of this MSI mobo can be seen here -

http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/motherboards/A/AC … um-MS-5148.html

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Reply 2 of 58, by Old Thrashbarg

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This is weird. I wrote the information above a few days ago, but did not post this message on Vogons because it wasn't a crucial show stopping problem. However, I decided to set up this hardware again for retesting, and now the situation above cannot be reproduced!

I wonder if maybe it's just a bit of oxidation on the legs of the socketed memory chips, and jarring the card around by pulling it and reinstalling it knocked things back into proper contact...

Reply 3 of 58, by swaaye

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Cool can't wait for Xtreme megaThread.

BTW, nice STB Nitro 3D w/ Virge GX. I've got one of those myself. Too bad all of the S3 S3D API games refuse to run on it!!!!!

An aspect that I like about the older sockets is that there is a wide variety of CPUs. More than just AMD and Intel stuff to play with. And there's a huge range of performance. And for even more variety, you can almost always run Socket 5 CPUs even on Super Socket 7 mobos.

Reply 4 of 58, by retro games 100

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Old Thrashbarg wrote:

This is weird. I wrote the information above a few days ago, but did not post this message on Vogons because it wasn't a crucial show stopping problem. However, I decided to set up this hardware again for retesting, and now the situation above cannot be reproduced!

I wonder if maybe it's just a bit of oxidation on the legs of the socketed memory chips, and jarring the card around by pulling it and reinstalling it knocked things back into proper contact...

The problem has reappeared, but this time for all resolutions and color depths. Perhaps I should remove the 2 extra RAM chips, and clean the legs? Do I need a special tool to carefully remove these chips? Thanks for any advice. BTW, my technique for removing BIOS chips needs improving. When I push a pair of tweezers underneath the chip and lift up, the legs at the far end get bent, and they look fragile as if doing this just a couple more times would result in these back far legs snapping off.

BTW, swaaye, I notice your sig has gone. I usually click on the AGP compatibility link when I'm messing about with those cards, and also, I need to test an Ensoniq Soundscape elite, and wondered if you had a link to the drivers! 😀

Edit: Please note that I've found the Ensoniq drivers and have this card working.

Reply 8 of 58, by Old Thrashbarg

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Perhaps I should remove the 2 extra RAM chips, and clean the legs? Do I need a special tool to carefully remove these chips? Thanks for any advice.

Well, if that is indeed the problem, then just pulling 'em out and re-seating 'em should do it. I don't really use anything special to remove chips like that, just carefully lever 'em up with a flat-blade screwdriver... pry one end up a little bit, then the other end, back and forth until I can get the screwdriver most of the way underneath the chip and push it straight up.

Reply 9 of 58, by Tetrium

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swaaye wrote:

.....
Super Trivia Challenge: Which CPU doesn't fit in this photo!?!?!??!?

The gold cap Pentium, but theres always the friendly hammer, it makes everything fit 😁

Reply 10 of 58, by retro games 100

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Must...stop...buying...more...junk...on ebay...ARGH!
It's just no good - I've bought another socket 7 mobo. It's a Gateway mobo, and I even found the Gateway support page for it!

http://support.gateway.com/s/MOTHERBD/INTEL/S … /MC032Bnv.shtml

I've put a classic Pentium 100 in it. Luckily, on that support page, it tells you to put the voltage jumper pin on 2-3 for standard voltage, even though pin 2-3 is labelled VRE!

I put one stick of 64MB SDRAM in it, and the POST BIOS screen told me there was 16MB of RAM. The support documentation says that the mobo can accept a maximum of 64MB of SDRAM, but that's probably spread over both of the 2 DIMM slots. However, Windows 98 didn't seem at all sluggish, so maybe Windows 98 could "see" the full 64MB of RAM.

As with another similar Gateway mobo I have, there's plenty of stuff on this mobo that looks "soldered out"/removed. There's a populated COAST slot. No integrated video on this mobo.

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Reply 11 of 58, by Tetrium

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It looks like a 430VX mobo, one of -the- oldest ATX mobo's around. The VX chipset can only cope with the lowest density SDRAM, hence why a single sided 64MB stick won't work properly.

The mobo looks like it's made by Intel. Interesting that it has no SIMM slots whatsoever

Reply 12 of 58, by swaaye

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That's one of those Intel designed OEM motherboards. Tiger Eye TE430VX.

It's probably a nice board. Some of them have onboard S3 Trio chips (and lose a PCI slot for it). I highly doubt it will run anything but an Intel CPU though. Intel makes sure the CPU has their "Genuine Intel" string.

And yup you need the very early SDRAM. I'm not real clear on that stuff, but it's differentiated by a 2 clk vs. 4 clk design. And it would have to use low density RAM chips of course.
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/ram/techSDRAM-c.html

430VX has a 64MB cacheable limit and a absolute max of 128MB.

Reply 13 of 58, by retro games 100

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Thanks a lot for everyone's valuable comments.

My shuttle has just arrived! Not that nifty spaceship the Emperor uses, but a piece of junk from VIA. Hehe! Only joking. I didn't realise it was NOS. (New Old Stock.) There's even a little bag of extra fresh unopened jumpers. I wonder which AGP graphics card will work successfully in this Shuttle HOT-591P Spacewalker mobo, PCB revision 3.1? I'm reading the quick start guide, and it says:

Installing AGP video card:
Find out if the video card installed requires the USB port. Eh?

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Reply 14 of 58, by Tetrium

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retro games 100 wrote:
Thanks a lot for everyone's valuable comments. […]
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Thanks a lot for everyone's valuable comments.

My shuttle has just arrived! Not that nifty spaceship the Emperor uses, but a piece of junk from VIA. Hehe! Only joking. I didn't realise it was NOS. (New Old Stock.) There's even a little bag of extra fresh unopened jumpers. I wonder which AGP graphics card will work successfully in this Shuttle HOT-591P Spacewalker mobo, PCB revision 3.1? I'm reading the quick start guide, and it says:

Installing AGP video card:
Find out if the video card installed requires the USB port. Eh?

In theory any AGP 2x and 4x should work but the earliest AGP slots did have limitations to how much power they can provide to the AGP card so in practice cards that consume a lot of power (for the eara) might not work properly

Reply 15 of 58, by retro games 100

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Lift off - I have got the Shuttle working. I found an AMD K6 III (400mhz) CPU and it works. Also, my Athlon skt462 copper cooler fits! The quick start guide is very good. All the jumpers were easy to figure out. The BIOS POST screen says:

(591PWIQF) VIA APOLLO MVP3
02/16/00-MVP3-586B (etc)

ATM, I'm not sure if this is the latest (last) BIOS version. Also, I let Windows 98 install all of the drivers. ATM, I'm not sure if there is a newer driver download.

The AMD K6 III (400mhz) CPU can be seen here -
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K6-III/AMD-K6-I … III-400AHX.html

I am running the mobo at 100FSB, with the BIOS settings maxed out. Some quick benchies:

Sandra 2002 Pro CPU = 1006,490. Memory bandwidth = 174,170. (I'm using 2 sticks of single-sided SDRAM 128MB sticks - 256MB in total.)

I'll remove the simple PCI graphics card I have in there, and replace it with some AGP cards, and then run some 3DMark benchies...

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Reply 16 of 58, by Tetrium

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Coolermaster heatsink?

I like the heatpipes 😁

I have the same motherboard but unfortunately it won't post.

btw, just noticed your Tiger Eye motherboard has onboard SCSI? Nice!

Reply 17 of 58, by retro games 100

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Tetrium wrote:

Coolermaster heatsink?

I like the heatpipes 😁

I have the same motherboard but unfortunately it won't post.

Yes, I've just checked and it is a Coolermaster heatsink. Solid copper. Groovy heatpipes, which are unfortunately obscured in the photo.

A couple of months ago, I was correctly advised by one of the Vogon retro oracles (Old Thrashbarg) to use CPU paste on CPUs before attaching the heatsink. I've been doing that ever since for all fast processors: eg anything above a Pentium. (For my Pentium 100 CPU, I've just blasted it with a very fast 12cm case fan, while I do my 15 minutes of testing. Afterwards, I press a couple of fingers on to the ceramic CPU surface, and do not sense much heat.)

However, the AMD K6 III CPU does not have an exposed CPU head. Instead, it's got a heatspreader. I wasn't too sure what to do here. Do I cover this heatspreader with CPU paste, or not? I decided not to use paste, because I would need quite a lot to cover this large surface area. Is this OK? The heatsink is very substantial, and is hopefully doing a good job, but maybe I need some paste between it and the CPU's heatspreader.

Tetrium wrote:

btw, just noticed your Tiger Eye motherboard has onboard SCSI? Nice!

I didn't realise it had onboard SCSI! Can you point this feature out to me please? What part of the mobo is this feature located? Thanks a lot.

Reply 19 of 58, by Tetrium

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retro games 100 wrote:
Yes, I've just checked and it is a Coolermaster heatsink. Solid copper. Groovy heatpipes, which are unfortunately obscured in […]
Show full quote
Tetrium wrote:

Coolermaster heatsink?

I like the heatpipes 😁

I have the same motherboard but unfortunately it won't post.

Yes, I've just checked and it is a Coolermaster heatsink. Solid copper. Groovy heatpipes, which are unfortunately obscured in the photo.

A couple of months ago, I was correctly advised by one of the Vogon retro oracles (Old Thrashbarg) to use CPU paste on CPUs before attaching the heatsink. I've been doing that ever since for all fast processors: eg anything above a Pentium. (For my Pentium 100 CPU, I've just blasted it with a very fast 12cm case fan, while I do my 15 minutes of testing. Afterwards, I press a couple of fingers on to the ceramic CPU surface, and do not sense much heat.)

However, the AMD K6 III CPU does not have an exposed CPU head. Instead, it's got a heatspreader. I wasn't too sure what to do here. Do I cover this heatspreader with CPU paste, or not? I decided not to use paste, because I would need quite a lot to cover this large surface area. Is this OK? The heatsink is very substantial, and is hopefully doing a good job, but maybe I need some paste between it and the CPU's heatspreader.

Tetrium wrote:

btw, just noticed your Tiger Eye motherboard has onboard SCSI? Nice!

I didn't realise it had onboard SCSI! Can you point this feature out to me please? What part of the mobo is this feature located? Thanks a lot.

The SCSI is the orange rectangle on the bottom left. Atleast I think it's SCSI
And please put some paste on the K6-3, it's a hot chip and it doesn't have any significant overheating protection, it could burn out if you put it to work.
And about the paste, just put a small drop on the center like you would a P3 coppermine.

If you were to remove the heatspreader of the K6-3, it would look something like this:
img5306qb1.jpg
Remarkably similar to an Athlon Thunderbird!

You won't need to put paste on the entire surface of the heatspreader, only on the center square cm or so 😉