Sounds like the AudioDrive's ESFM has quantization noise. I hear that a lot on any Sega Genesis/Sega MegaDrive with a discrete YM2612(some use YM2612s integrated within a custom Sega ASIC, which have reduced quantization noise). Even the SoundBlaster Pro 2.0's discrete YMF262 has some quantization noise, but it's not as noticeable as the ESS AudioDrive's ESFM.

Another thing: you can clearly hear the one flaw the ESFM YMF262 clone used by ESS in the percussion(sounds like white noise on the SoundBlaster Pro 2.0). Instead of coming out as pure white noise on the ESS AudioDrive, it comes out as a rather tinny click, if you know what I mean.

quantization noise 😎

That's the word I was looking for 🤣

Yea the more I listen to FM, the more I cherish my Soundblaster Pro 2.0!

I might source a SB16 with OPL3 seeing the Pro's are kinda scarce and I want to look after them...

Is there a guide to which SB16s have OPL3 chips?

There's an easy way to know if a SoundBlaster 16 has true OPL3 FM Synthesis: look a chip that says "OPL" on it. It can either be a real Yamaha YMF262 or Creative's CT1747 combo YMF262/ISA interface chip. However, I'm not exactly sure which YMF262 resides within the CT1747, if it's Yamaha's YMF262 or the CQM YMF262 clone. I found a few SoundBlaster 16s with CT1747s when I went to exchange my YMF724 last Sunday, so I'll probably go back to pick up one of those SoundBlaster 16s and report back on what YMF262 resides within the CT1747(I have to pick up a SoundBlaster AWE32 model CT3600 since I left it behind due to the booth owner being incapable of finding 30-pin SIMMs to stick into the SIMM slots).

If a SoundBlaster 16 does not have a chip that says "OPL" on it, it's guaranteed to have the CQM YMF262 clone. Same thing goes for the SoundBlaster AWE32; the CT3600 I'm supposed to get does not have the CT1747 on it(the only AWE32 to have a real YMF262 is the cheaper SoundBlaster 32), but certain other models of the AWE32 have the CT1747. Then, Creative used only the CQM YMF262 clone with the AWE64.

Speaking of which, I found an AWE64 Gold for sale in the classifieds. I'll contact the seller and try to snag the sound card. Then, I'll get rid of my AWE64 Value(a little note on it: a corner of the sound card was cut because it wouldn't fit into the computer it used to be in, and I believe it used to reside in a computer like my IBM Personal Computer 300PL where the CPU prevents the AWE64 from fitting into the computer. With that cut, I have a hell of a hard time fitting the AWE64 into the 300PL. Without the cut, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't fit at all. Hopefully, the AWE32 or AWE64 Gold will fit).

EDIT: Remember this thread concerning my 82C929A's possibly reversed Stereo on the YMF262: Is the Stereo on my OPTi 82C929A's YMF262 reversed?

It turns out the YMF262's Stereo is actually NOT reversed. I know the Ensoniq Soundscape doesn't have reversed Stereo, and in the Descent setup utility, the Stereo is the same between the YMF262 on my 82C929A and the Soundscape's MIDI. So that means the Stereo on the SoundBlaster Pro 2.0's YMF262 is actually REVERSED. I do believe you can reverse the Stereo yourself on a SoundBlaster Pro 2.0 using some utility, am I right?

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

So RG100 please please when you get your OPTI card, can you record the Intro tune from Monkey Island 2?

Unfortunately I don't own MI2, and looking on ebay it's a bit too expensive to buy just for a sound test. Also, I'll have to wait for this Opti card to arrive from the USA, which might take a couple of weeks...

Alternatively, is there a MI2 .Mid MIDI file I can play using music playing software inside DOS or Windows 98? I could record the music either using my Windows XP box (cable from retro PC), or at the Windows 98 desktop using GoldWave.

Re: distortion on my Opti sound card, playing FM music. I must look in to this. @Ace, on my 4 minute X-Wing music recording, whereabouts does the music sound distorted? I'm fairly certain I chose the default mixer settings before making that recording, and the FM music volume was at an acceptable level. I can't remember what the value was, but it wasn't too high. 60 I think, out of a possible 100 max.

Perhaps the clone chip distorts the sound? When I get the real OPL Opti card, I'll set the mixer settings to default for both of them, and rerecord X-Wing to see if there's a difference in sound quality.

At default mixer settings, the YMF262 on my 82C929A doesn't distort, but it's too quiet for me because I'm playing my DOS games on a TV, and the audio output from the 82C929A from the Line Out isn't too strong, which is especially bad for video capture. I have everything maxed out on my 82C929A except for FM Synthesis, which is too loud at 100% volume and almost completely drowns out the digital sound(I have the FM Synthesis set to 85 because of this).

But the distortion is not caused by the LS-212. It's caused by the audio amp used after the DAC. I wouldn't be able to tell you exactly where the distortion is on your X-Wing recording just yet as I don't have access to my laptop. I've got my only set of headphones hooked up to the laptop, and it's with headphones I can tell the sound is distorted.

Maybe try to re-record X-Wing with the same mixer settings as on my 82C929A. Max out everything except for the FM Synthesis, which should be at 85% volume.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7SblbVKQdU […]
Show full quote

unmei220 wrote:

Would you like if I record the intro using my OPTi 82C929A ?
It would be something rough as i'm not very familiar with audio recordings...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7SblbVKQdU

But don't do the noise removal, as that's vital for comparing soundcards.

The software is Audacity which is a free download.

What OS do you have? You need to locate the line-in of your soundcard. The rest is explained in the video.

If you have W7 it's very easy!

Do I use the speaker-out or line-out of the OPTi ?

Generally if a card has speaker out and line out, I'd expect that speaker out goes through an amplifier and line out is recording level. Last card I saw that had that was my SB 2.0 I think.

Best to use Line Out. Speaker Out typically makes the sound way too loud and induces heavy distortion.

Ok, here it is, I did the best I could.

Here is the card I used:

unmei220 wrote:

Do I use the speaker-out or line-out of the OPTi ?

Always line-out if there is one 😀

Ace wrote:

There's an easy way to know if a SoundBlaster 16 has true OPL3 FM Synthesis: look a chip that says "OPL" on it.

Doh 🤣 I know that much 😁...

You can never tell on these ebay pics. That's why I was wondering if there is a list of CT numbers, or PCB layouts (e.g. if it has a CD interface it has an OPL chip) or similar hints like that...

EDIT: Remember this thread concerning my 82C929A's possibly reversed Stereo on the YMF262: Is the Stereo on my OPTi 82C929A's YMF262 reversed?

It turns out the YMF262's Stereo is actually NOT reversed.

Reversed compared to what? Remember the Soundblaster Pro is the reference. This is the card that other cards are trying to be "compatible" too.

You have a Soundblaster Pro, just compare your other cards to your Soundblaster Pro and then you know 😉

I liked the recording that unmei220 made. Good photo too. I want to join the Monkey Island recording party! I bought MI2 on ebay, and hope it arrives soon..

unmei220 wrote:

Ok, here it is, I did the best I could.

Here is the card I used:

Agreed thank you for the image. PICs say so much more than words!

The recording is perfect by the way.

Yup that card has a genuine OPL chip alright and it shows. Great music.

It's a keeper of a card that's for sure! The line-out and bug free wavetable connector are excellent. The IDE adapter can also come in handy.

It's a great card!

EDIT: RG100 Monkey Island 2 is a great game! Excellent FM music and supports MT-32 as well. Doesn't support OPL3, but they sure got a lot out of the old OPL2 chips...

Shame you can't easily buy this game. The Steam version is totally different. For MI1 however, there is a patch for ScummVM which converts the Steam version into a DOS version including speech!

I was soo impressed when I saw this up and running...

Uh-oh... I think part of my 82C929A is about to fail. I'm losing audio output on the right audio channel from the YMF262 and I'm starting to get a sizzling noise in the audio output. *takes 82C929A to workstation and initiates repairs*

If I can't recover this 82C929A, I've got an 82C930 I can purchase as a replacement. It's just a condensed 82C929A with the audio codec integrated within the 82C930, and yes, it does have a discrete YMF262.

Or I'll swap out the 82C929A with my SoundBlaster Pro 2.0.

Are you sure it's not just a bad wire or audio connector?

It's not the plug. I lose audio output on both the Speaker Out and Line Out, and it always happens after I'm using the 82C929A for an extended period of time(about 20 minutes). From experience, this tells me there must be a weak solder joint somewhere, which is completely screwing up the audio output. I've had numerous problems like this where a single bad connection or damaged trace could completely screw up the audio signal. Seems like it's time to put some bypass wires on this sound card.

Little off-topic question: are there any DOS games that support ONLY the SoundBlaster 16 and nothing older?

Ace wrote:

Little off-topic question: are there any DOS games that support ONLY the SoundBlaster 16 and nothing older?

While it's possible, I doubt there are many if at all...

I'm certainly not aware of any such game.

Thanks for the feedback.
I also made the recording using my SBPro 2.0 card, and I have a question: is it normal that the SB Pro 2.0 card is so noisy ? It has no line-out, so I recorded using the spk-out, but I couldn't adjust the levels so it made a bearable noise, so maybe it's just that is an old card and it's normal for it to be noisy ?

Also, does anyone have any idea what those "3-D AUDIO" jumpers below the CD-Audio connectors are for ? I'm talking about my OPTi card I posted a picture earlier. I couldn't find any documentation on them, meaning I don't know if they're enabled or not, or even if they work.

Yes the Soundblasters can be quite noisy when compared to other cards like the ESS AudioDrive I have!

It should be "pleasant" noise however. So none of the "I can hear the PC thinking" type, just a hiss (white noise?)

The only thing you can do is adjust the mixer. It is recommended that you max out FM and SPEECH and set master volume to ~ 70%.

Can you host the SB Pro recording as well?

Sure, here it is. Be aware that I set master and FM volume to 15 (100%), all the others to 0. Then I adjusted the volume using the volume control or whatever it is in the back of the card. Maybe there resides my error.

I also had a SB16 Value in that PC, with the CT1747 chip, i'm uploading that recording also.

Also wanted to test an Avance Logic ALS120 ISA card that I found, but unfortunately it didn't worked.

As always, some pics of the cards:
SBPro 2.0

SB16 Value