FeedingDragon wrote:

I've tried PSU calculators, but the problem is, they are all geared towards newer machines. I currently have a 300W PSU in the […]
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I've tried PSU calculators, but the problem is, they are all geared towards newer machines. I currently have a 300W PSU in the system, but I doubt it's enough. I haven't pushed the system to it's limits yet, but I would like to install a better PSU before I start really pushing the tests. I have the rest of the HW pretty much finalized now, though I am considering upping the RAM to the 768MB limit. Not really worried about that, though, 512MB is probably the most it will need, as most games that can really use more than that work on my modern system anyways. That "might" change if I buy new (to me,) games.

Anyways, what's in my system now:

Gigabyte GA-6BXC Motherboard (Modified for high current AGP 2x cards)
512MB PC100 RAM (1x256MB + 2x128MB)
Celeron 1.4Ghz CPU (100Mhz FSB) w/Powerleap PL-iP3/T Adapter
Voodoo 3 3500 TV 16MB AGP
Voodoo 1 4MBB PCI
2x Voodoo 2 12MB SLI PCI
Generic 10/100/1000 NIC PCI
MPU-401AT ISA with SCB-55 Daughterboard ISA
SoundBlaster AWE32 with 32MB (28MB usable) ISA
1.2M 5.25" Floppy Drive
1.44M 3.5" Floppy Drive
BenQ DW1670 DVD-ROM Drive (Reads all Non-HD Formats)
3x 40GB 7200 RPM ATA-66 Hard Drives

The only addition I might make to that in the future is a DB for the AWE32. That's a rather large maybe, though. The only one that really caught my "ears" is the DoX-1 Korg DB. Not really ready to shell out the $250+ to get one though. Before anyone comments on the ATA-66 HDD's, they were pulled from a Socket-7 system when it's MB fried on me... Well, it was the KB chip that went out after a power surge, I really should have replace the UPS on that system when the old one went out 🙁

Am I wrong in assuming that the 300W PSU won't be enough if I really push the system? Any advice on what to replace it with would be appreciated. I don't really see a need to throw a 1200W unit in it (800W works fine for my modern system, and I really push the system at times.) I started to buy a 400W unit just a bit ago, but decided to get some advice before settling on that.

You need a PSU with a strong +5V rail. That means that most modern 350W-500W PSUs are out of question. An old branded 300W+ PSU should be enough. A generic 400W PSU with "Pentium 4" mark should also be enough, if fancy brand names do not concern you.

Agreed with RacoonRider - a 300-400W unit with a competent +5V rail should be perfectly suitable for this machine.

If you're looking for a quality 300W+ PSU with a heavy +5V rail, I'd recommend you look at older Dell PSUs, specifically ones that have a Delta model prefix (DPS-xxxx). They use high quality capacitors and require no special attention other than cleaning the dust inside.

Just make sure it is a post-Pentium 4 model. some of the older Dell PSUs had custom pinouts that are incompatible with the ATX standard.

If your 300w unit is a quality unit i really don't see any reason to go higher. With all those voodoo's in one system i hope you have some fans blowing.....

For my retro systems i try to use as much fortron and antec units as i can. Good quality, never gave me any trouble. The fortron's were very comon and easy to find for next to nothing.

meljor wrote:

If your 300w unit is a quality unit i really don't see any reason to go higher. With all those voodoo's in one system i hope you have some fans blowing.....

For my retro systems i try to use as much fortron and antec units as i can. Good quality, never gave me any trouble. The fortron's were very comon and easy to find for next to nothing.

Yes, but both Fortrons and especially Antecs will need their capacitors replaced. Fortron used Teapo general purpose SEK series, and Antec used Fuhjyyu. They might work if you only draw 100W-200W off them. Any more, and your system will become quirky.

If you check out my pictures HERE, you can actually see the PSU I'm using now. I don't think it qualifies as a quality unit... But it's nice to know that 300-400 Watt would be sufficient if I can get enough power on the +5V line. I've actually been looking at those again, now paying more attention to the +5V line 😀

As for the fans... There isn't very many places to install extra fans 🙁 Actually, there isn't any place except an empty 5.25" bay at the very top of the machine.... Do they make cooling fans that can go in a bay slot like that? OK, never mind, did a Google search, and they do make things like that 😀 Not too expensive either. Looking at the layout, though, if I do get something like that, it would probably be best to install it where the 5.25" FDD is and move everything up one slot, though the FD ribbon cable will partially block the airflow. If I put it just above the 5.25" FDD and only move the DVD & 3rd HDD up, then I can route all the cables out of the way.

As for the Voodoo's overheating. I thought they would only build up heat when in use. Only one (or 2 for the V2's) will be in use at any given time, though. So does having 4 of them really build up so much heat?

I have been down this road myself a few times:

Stress-Testing a PSU

P3 Coppermine vs Tualatin Power Consumption

Your system is probably only drawing about 200W or less at full burn. However, like others have said, you need a strong +5V rail for all that stuff you've got in it.

It is getting really hard to find a good power supply with a strong +5V rail. I recently got a Rosewill RG630-S12 for the ABIT BH6 1ghz system I'm building. It has 24A on the +5V rail and should be more than sufficient. Really though, even the Antec BP350 should be fine for your system with 20A on the +5V rail. If you're really paranoid, there's a guy on eBay who still has Enermax EG365P-VE units for sale. These have 32A on the +5V rail and they even have a 1A -5V rail.

If your current PSU has at least 20A on the +5V rail, you should already be OK. In that case, I wouldn't worry about it.

For a 5.25" bay cooler, I would recommend this Evercool cross-flow unit. I put one in another machine and was happy with its performance.

In a 1.4ghz system your 3dfx cards are getting pushed pretty hard. You should definitely point a fan at them to keep 'em cool. In one of my systems I took a spare slot cover and screwed a 60mm fan to it. I then bent it a bit so that the fan would point at my video cards.

I have to ask: Why so much Voodoo?

And how did you get all those video cards to work together.

KT7AGuy wrote:

For a 5.25" bay cooler, I would recommend this Evercool cross-flow unit. I put one in another machine and was happy with its performance.

In a 1.4ghz system your 3dfx cards are getting pushed pretty hard. You should definitely point a fan at them to keep 'em cool. In one of my systems I took a spare slot cover and screwed a 60mm fan to it. I then bent it a bit so that the fan would point at my video cards.

Since, when I play a game, I tend to play for hours at a time, I'm thinking I might want to do something a little more than just a 5.25" bay. But that would require either replacing the case or cutting a hole in the side panel (for the fan.) I did try to find a case that had the bare minimum (2 external 5.25" bays, 1 external 3.5" bay, 3 internal 3.5" bays, and 7 expansion slots.) However, they all ended up too tall to fit in the space I have for it. I only have a clearance of about 15.25" to play around with 🙁.

I almost bought one of the fans you mentioned, but reading the reviews, it is extremely noisy and doesn't actually produce as much air flow as it stated.

smeezekitty wrote:

I have to ask: Why so much Voodoo?

And how did you get all those video cards to work together.

The system started out being designed around my V2 SLI cards... Later, on researching, I discovered that some of my games won't play on the V2, and that led to researching the V3 (last one with Windows 3.1 drivers - Win3.1 is installed,) and V1 compatibility and cards. That, and the idea of having 3 generations of Voodoo just caught my fancy, led to the current setup.

As for getting them to play nice, that's a bit tricky. First, the 2D pass-through has to go through the Voodoo 1 card (with no input on either of the Voodoo 2's.) Second (and I can't say with 100% certainty that this is necessary, but reading suggests it is,) the Voodoo 1 has to come before the Voodoo 2's in the PCI slots. Finally, to use the Voodoo 2, you have to install a VGA switch box and manually switch between the 2. After that, it's just a matter of having the correct OVL file in the game directory. I put the Voodoo 3 OVL file in the path (C:\DOS in my case,) and just copy the appropriate OVL (Voodoo 1 or Voodoo 2,) to the directory of the games that don't like the Voodoo 3. If 640x480 is fine ( or the game is "fixed" there,) then I just use the Voodoo 1, otherwise, I use the Voodoo 2 😀

You could always find a way to mount a couple of smaller fans near the air event to the side of the cards. I find you can bend cable ties/twist ties to mount things like fans in places they aren't meant to be.

Nothing in that case runs stupid hot like modem hardware. The challenge is more the ambient air in the case slowly building so I'd say extraction is more important then fresh air intake.

If all I have to worry about is exhaust, the Evercool Cross-Flow would work as well for that. It (according to the ads,) is bi-directional. Since one of my hard drives is in a 5.25" slot, I've also been looking at the 3-fan units as well. I've given up, for now, on re-casing my system. It would require getting an older case off of eBay. If I knew exactly how loud the Cross-Flow unit was I would feel better about making a final decision.

The system started out being designed around my V2 SLI cards... Later, on researching, I discovered that some of my games won't play on the V2, and that led to researching the V3 (last one with Windows 3.1 drivers - Win3.1 is installed,) and V1 compatibility and cards. That, and the idea of having 3 generations of Voodoo just caught my fancy, led to the current setup.

Now I am even more puzzled...why would one run Win 3.x on a 1.4GHz machine with 512MB of RAM? 😵
There isn't anything that would run on Windows 3.1 that would need that much RAM of CPU. A few high end DOS games
might benefit from from the fast CPU but they run better on pure DOS anyway

smeezekitty wrote:

Now I am even more puzzled...why would one run Win 3.x on a 1.4GHz machine with 512MB of RAM? :dead: There isn't anything that […]
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The system started out being designed around my V2 SLI cards... Later, on researching, I discovered that some of my games won't play on the V2, and that led to researching the V3 (last one with Windows 3.1 drivers - Win3.1 is installed,) and V1 compatibility and cards. That, and the idea of having 3 generations of Voodoo just caught my fancy, led to the current setup.

Now I am even more puzzled...why would one run Win 3.x on a 1.4GHz machine with 512MB of RAM? 😵
There isn't anything that would run on Windows 3.1 that would need that much RAM of CPU. A few high end DOS games
might benefit from from the fast CPU but they run better on pure DOS anyway

It dual boots with Windows 98. There are plenty of games that will use 512Mb of memory for Windows 98 😀 That being said, with many of my DOS games, I use SMB to clock it down to 66 or even 50 Mhz FSB (giving me a speed of 700 & 933 Mhz respectively.)

FeedingDragon wrote:

I've given up, for now, on re-casing my system. It would require getting an older case off of eBay. If I knew exactly how loud the Cross-Flow unit was I would feel better about making a final decision.

No need to get a new case. I'm sure you can work with what you've got.

I put that Evercool cross-flow unit in my brother's PC, so I don't have it in front of me to play with. I remember the noise level being tolerable to me even when cranked up to its full speed. I also don't remember it being bi-directional. The one I remember installing only sucked air into the front of the case. I don't remember it having any exhaust function.

You could also try these instead:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?It … =9SIA6UM2KD3111

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?It … =9SIA6UM2KD2373

I've got the black version in another of my PCs and I also don't think it is intolerably loud.

With all those 3dfx cards, you probably don't have a PCI slot left. In case you do, you could also consider this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?It … N82E16835888309

Here are some photos of the video card cooler that I made out of a slot cover:

If you would like to see photos of the rest of that system, check them out here.

I've been looking into a stable way of attaching an exhaust fan on the grill above the expansion slots as well. The more I think on it though, with the grill there, use your method to put a fan or fans blowing down over the Voodoo cards, then put an exhaust fans in the 2 5.25" bays (one has a HDD there, but that shouldn't hurt.) I'm looking into the tri-fan options as well as just putting a Cross-Flow in the top slot. With the system upright, the fans blowing the air pulled in from the back down over the cards, the being pulled out at the top seems like a good option. The PSU also exhaust a small amount as well.

About the noise, at the first of the month, when I get my deposit, I think I'll go with the Cross-Flow. From comments made, the noise probably isn't as severe as was reported. Besides, my system already sounds like a small jet plane taking off when I turn it on anyways, the fan will probably get lost in the other noise anyways.

That being said, and looking at your system pics..... Where can I get a 3dfx decal like you have on your system? I think mine qualifies having one of those, and the decal square is currently empty. Would love one that actually said "3dfx Inside" 😀 but I think Intel probably has that usage trademarked or something....

Yah, this PC sounds like a jet taking off too. Most of it comes from the 80mm Evercool fan in the front. I'd love to replace it, but I think that about 95% of this PC's airflow is coming from that guy. A Vantec Stealth fan would be nice, but at the cost of substantially reduced airflow.

Back in the day, it was almost a badge of honor to have a ridiculously loud PC from all the fans buzzing away. Nowadays, I (and pretty much everybody else) find it highly annoying. Because this PC is a mostly period-correct 1997/1998 build that gets used infrequently, I tolerate it as a charming quirk of that era. Really, I only use it to run EF2000, MechWarrior 2, Archimedean Dynasty, Noctropolis, Syndicate Plus, and Syndicate Wars. It's a pretty good PC for running the Voodoo 1 and DOS games that my other PCs have problems with.

I got that 3dfx case badge about 10 years ago from a guy on eBay. I think he was from Germany, but I can't remember. These ones were nice because they were domed stickers that look really professional. I too wish I could find more of them. Unfortunately, all I can find now are these:

Looking through eBay's completed items list, it looks like nice 3dfx domed case badges may occasionally pop up for sale. If not, this German website has a bunch:

http://www.mohe-comp.com/shop3/index.php?k=35

Failing that, you could always design your own here and sell off extras on eBay:

http://www.case-badges.com/

FrozenCPU has a bunch of case badges, but no 3dfx models. I found this one amusing:

Apparently the German site doesn't deliver to the US 🙁 At least, I couldn't get a shipping price. The destination list seems to only include Europe.

Thanks for the information though 😀