VOGONS


First post, by King_Corduroy

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Hey guys maybe you saw my post in the retro activity thread but I need some help getting these drives detected or at least to know it they work at all.

This machine has TWO 5.25" drives, I have no idea what size they are and I know almost nothing about getting HDD working on machines of this age so any advice would be good. Assuming the drive / drives are indeed bad what should I do to replace them?

You can see I tried to install DOS 5.0 but it only gives me the option to install to diskette. 😒

Here are pics of the system and the messages I'm getting:

s2400011_by_mad_king_corduroy-d9kk7se.jpg

3_by_mad_king_corduroy-d9kk7sm.jpg

2_by_mad_king_corduroy-d9kk7t0.jpg

s2400012_by_mad_king_corduroy-d9kkdln.jpg

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Reply 1 of 17, by Scali

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King_Corduroy wrote:

I know almost nothing about getting HDD working on machines of this age so any advice would be good.

Well, it says the configuration information is bad. That probably means the CMOS battery died.
Machines from this era would have the harddisk configuration stored in CMOS. There was no auto-detection yet. When the battery died, the configuration info got lost, so now it runs on default settings, which means the HDD is not configured, so the DOS setup doesn't see it.
It most probably is an IDE drive.
So, what you probably need to do is this:
Open up the machine, and read what it says on the HDD label.
There are two options:
1) It is one of the 'standard' HDD types, in which case you just need to know the number (the number may actually be written on the case somewhere, on some sticker... 'HDD type 17' or something).
2) It should list a configuration of cylinders, heads and sectors. If it isn't a standard type, you can always enter a 'user type', where you manually specify this information.

Once you have this set up, you can format the harddisk (if it isn't formatted already).
This is done in two stages:
1) You need to set up a partition.
2) You need to format this partition.

In order to make the HDD bootable, it also needs to be formatted as a system disk, and the partition needs to be set active.
The DOS 5.0 installer should be able to take care of all of this, if the HDD is configured correctly.
If not, you can manually run the FDISK utility from the DOS boot disk, and create a partition and set it active.
After that you can use FORMAT C: /S to format it as a bootable disk (but the DOS setup can probably take care of that as well).

http://scalibq.wordpress.com/just-keeping-it- … ro-programming/

Reply 2 of 17, by PCBONEZ

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This kind of thing has been a long time for me so I may need slapped at some point.
.
IIRC: Basically you will need the info off the drives and to manually input the settings into the BIOS.
If your CMOS battery is shot you will need to write it all down because you will have to do this every time you start it.
.

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Reply 3 of 17, by King_Corduroy

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So from DOS I should be able to setup the HDD? It doesn't seem to have a BIOS menu to set up the HDD like in later systems I have used. 😒

Or I should say I don't know how to get into the BIOS.

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Reply 6 of 17, by King_Corduroy

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Well I have another problem now, it seems the HDD are seagate model ST-225 and I cannot get them to recognize even though they should be type 02 I think...

Any idea how to get these working?

Check me out at Transcendental Airwaves on Youtube! Fast-food sucks!

Reply 7 of 17, by chrisNova777

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wow awesome tandy. my first ibm (XT?) computer was a Tandy 1000. My father worked for radioshack.. the company that owned Tandy. its like looking at a long lost relative!!

i remember an intimate relationship with that power switch in that location.. and
soundblasters that had volume dials at the back.. keeping hte music really low as i played kings quest 1+2 + space quest. ha!

wishing you success!

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Reply 8 of 17, by PCBONEZ

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King_Corduroy wrote:

Well I have another problem now, it seems the HDD are seagate model ST-225 and I cannot get them to recognize even though they should be type 02 I think...

Any idea how to get these working?

Already told you. Enter it manually.
I don't remember if this is all you need.
Cylinders: 615
Heads: 4
Sectors: 17

And to someone above. No. It's not IDE. It's MFM.
.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Reply 9 of 17, by King_Corduroy

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I would LOVE to do that except for the small problem that the setup program DOES NOT prompt for that. 😒

This couldn't mean the controller board is bad could it?

s2400020_by_mad_king_corduroy-d9kltu1.jpg

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Reply 10 of 17, by PCBONEZ

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King_Corduroy wrote:

This couldn't mean the controller board is bad could it?

It could.
Could also mean bad connections or cables.
Try unplugging and replugging cables and if there is a controller board remove and replace it.
.......... With the power off of course...

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Reply 11 of 17, by King_Corduroy

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No difference I guess I'll have to go through the options one by one and if none stick then it has to be the controller.

Check me out at Transcendental Airwaves on Youtube! Fast-food sucks!

Reply 12 of 17, by Scali

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PCBONEZ wrote:

And to someone above. No. It's not IDE. It's MFM.

Yes, apparently. The ST-225 is the stock drive in my IBM 5160.
MFM is mostly associated with PC/XT class machines, IDE was more common for 286 and higher. But well, Tandy is weird 😀
Even two of my XT clones have IDE on board (albeit XT-IDE of course), and they are from 1987.

http://scalibq.wordpress.com/just-keeping-it- … ro-programming/

Reply 13 of 17, by PCBONEZ

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King_Corduroy wrote:

No difference I guess I'll have to go through the options one by one and if none stick then it has to be the controller.

The thing is "controller" is a little ambiguous.
It could mean the PCB at the drive end of the cables or it could mean the PCB at the system end of the cables.

Bad cables will also throw that error.
Did you have a spare set to try?

Also try with one HDD at a time connected.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Reply 14 of 17, by King_Corduroy

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Scali wrote:
Yes, apparently. The ST-225 is the stock drive in my IBM 5160. MFM is mostly associated with PC/XT class machines, IDE was more […]
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PCBONEZ wrote:

And to someone above. No. It's not IDE. It's MFM.

Yes, apparently. The ST-225 is the stock drive in my IBM 5160.
MFM is mostly associated with PC/XT class machines, IDE was more common for 286 and higher. But well, Tandy is weird 😀
Even two of my XT clones have IDE on board (albeit XT-IDE of course), and they are from 1987.

How hard do you think it would be to get an IDE drive working with a controller on this old thing? It's one of those machines where you only have 41 options for the HDD so I'm not at all sure how I'd set up a larger drive.

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Reply 15 of 17, by alexanrs

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Use the XT-IDE Universal BIOS and ignore the built in HDD support altogether.

Reply 16 of 17, by PCBONEZ

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King_Corduroy wrote:
Scali wrote:
Yes, apparently. The ST-225 is the stock drive in my IBM 5160. MFM is mostly associated with PC/XT class machines, IDE was more […]
Show full quote
PCBONEZ wrote:

And to someone above. No. It's not IDE. It's MFM.

Yes, apparently. The ST-225 is the stock drive in my IBM 5160.
MFM is mostly associated with PC/XT class machines, IDE was more common for 286 and higher. But well, Tandy is weird 😀
Even two of my XT clones have IDE on board (albeit XT-IDE of course), and they are from 1987.

How hard do you think it would be to get an IDE drive working with a controller on this old thing? It's one of those machines where you only have 41 options for the HDD so I'm not at all sure how I'd set up a larger drive.

I -think- that's possible but that question is outside of my knowledge pool.
In the late 90's I acquired 40 or so XT's which I tested and parted out but none were actually Tandy and I haven't done much with them since.
I remember a little about setting up drives in them (and IIRC some did have IDE) but I have no idea about modern workarounds to keep XT's going.
.
alexanrs and others (when they find this thread) will give you much better advice on that.
.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Reply 17 of 17, by alexanrs

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AFAIK all one really has to do is to configure the motherboard as if no HDD is attached, then burn a correctly configured (running the bundled utility from a floppy) firmware to some EEPROM and use a NIC to inject it into the machine. The XTIDE has a boot menu, is able to swap the floppies (so you can boot from B:), autodetect modern drives, use LBA and all that stuff.