VOGONS


First post, by jheronimus

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Hi, all

I have a desktop AT case that I got maybe a couple of months ago. Probably from 386 era. In Russian these cases got a nickname "crocodile" due to the fact you can just open the "hood" without removing any screws. It's similar to this one:

The attachment 007.jpg is no longer available

I tend to use this case for a lot of new builds, because it's really convenient. However, it suffers from a problem where sometimes turning the PC on results in white screen, all the LED indicators on the keyboard staying lit, and the PC not responding to any input. I've been mostly using this system to test 5x86/VLB configurations which tend to be tricky.

However, with my latest board (QDI V4P895GRN/SMT v1.0 (S1.1)) I knew for a fact that it's set up correctly — the seller tested it with the exact same CPU, and I've used RAM and VLB videocard from my previous builds. The symptoms are the same, however: when I turn the power on, the screen gradually turns white (no output from the system whatsoever), doesn't POST and doesn't react to keyboard input. The keyboard LED indicators (Caps Lock, Num Lock, Scroll Lock) stay lit the whole time.

Here's what I've tried:

1) different RAM sticks/different RAM configuration;
2) reseated the VLB card
3) tried another AMD 5x86 (the very same model, though)
4) finally, I realised that it's probably not about the mobo. I removed it from the case and plugged the PSU into a different board (Intel's Batman Revenge, if that matters). I've placed the mobo on a wooden board outside of the case (the PSU is still in the case), installed a PCI video card — and it worked just fine.
5) I then connected the QDI board back — same configuration, but placed outside of the case. After a couple of attempts it also worked.

So at this point I'm fairly convinced, that the issue is with the case/PSU. Any ideas what could it be? Thanks in advance!

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Reply 1 of 7, by Osprey

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If I'm reading your steps right, it sounds like the problem doesn't occur with the very same components outside of the case, but does occur inside. If so, then I'd check how you're attaching the motherboard to the case, since you could be getting unintentional electrical transmission. The motherboard should be separated from the case by something non-conductive, ideally the special little risers that come with cases. Those little paper washers that you use with the screws might help, too.

Reply 2 of 7, by jheronimus

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I thought that, too. Thing is, the motherboard was sitting on I guess four metal risers, and each screw did went through a red paper insulation ring (again, not sure what it's called, but I think we're talking about the same thing). I made sure plastic standoffs were used everywhere else. There is one corner, though, that doesn't have a mounting hole (because it's covered by a VRM module on the other side), but I don't believe the motherboard touches the case anywhere directly.

I've already moved the motherboard to another case (and it works like a charm there), but I'll try to make some photos of the case tonight.

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Reply 3 of 7, by Osprey

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Maybe the metal of the motherboard is touching the metal of the case elsewhere. I'd try removing all of the add-in cards except for the video card, as well as all peripherals (you don't need a keyboard or mouse just to check startup).

Reply 4 of 7, by BeginnerGuy

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Odd if that's happening and the board is secured on risers. Check that your add on cards are also not touching bare metal anywhere as well.

I did have one case a few years ago that was causing havoc on a more modern build, it turned out one of the leads for one of the front panel buttons was slightly stripped and shorting against the frame of the case. You never know, maybe try disconnecting any front panel switches you don't need to test the machine and carefully go over the case wiring.

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Reply 5 of 7, by Tetrium

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Osprey wrote:

Maybe the metal of the motherboard is touching the metal of the case elsewhere. I'd try removing all of the add-in cards except for the video card, as well as all peripherals (you don't need a keyboard or mouse just to check startup).

You reckon it might be possible the screws that are used to mount the motherboard to the case, somehow touch something on the motherboard itself that is causing some sort of short? I've seen motherboards having been tightened to cases too much and the place where the underside of the head of the screw (dunno what it's called but I'll just call it that, preferably without having to resort to acronyms that may make our more obscene members have associative thoughts about the kind of pron that has nothing to do with PCs 🤣) damage the PCB of the board. Couldn't that perhaps somehow damage some traces or something?

I've always wondered, so might as well ask now 😁

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Reply 6 of 7, by jheronimus

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Osprey wrote:

Maybe the metal of the motherboard is touching the metal of the case elsewhere. I'd try removing all of the add-in cards except for the video card, as well as all peripherals (you don't need a keyboard or mouse just to check startup).

In all the steps I've described, the system only had a motherboard, a CPU, RAM, a videocard and a keyboard.

BeginnerGuy wrote:

I did have one case a few years ago that was causing havoc on a more modern build, it turned out one of the leads for one of the front panel buttons was slightly stripped and shorting against the frame of the case. You never know, maybe try disconnecting any front panel switches you don't need to test the machine and carefully go over the case wiring.

The only wire connected to the board was the PC speaker.

Last edited by jheronimus on 2017-09-20, 10:17. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 7 of 7, by Osprey

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Tetrium wrote:

You reckon it might be possible the screws that are used to mount the motherboard to the case, somehow touch something on the motherboard itself that is causing some sort of short? I've seen motherboards having been tightened to cases too much and the place where the underside of the head of the screw (dunno what it's called but I'll just call it that, preferably without having to resort to acronyms that may make our more obscene members have associative thoughts about the kind of pron that has nothing to do with PCs 🤣) damage the PCB of the board. Couldn't that perhaps somehow damage some traces or something?

Now that you mention it, I think that I've done that once or twice... tightened the motherboard too closely to the case. I don't remember exactly what the result was, but I have definitely formed a conscious habit to tighten them only until I feel a little resistance.

These kinds of issues are probably less common nowadays, since cases are aluminum. My experiences with them seem to all come from the days when cases were steel (I particularly cherished my all-steel full tower, but, man, was it heavy; I took it to a LAN party once and never again). Of course, jheronimus' case is most likely steel, too, so it's not surprising if that's the problem.