brostenen wrote on 2020-06-16, 20:52:Yup. I know most of those things, and of course you use an S3 of good quality. Those three cards I mentioned, are all better sui […]
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darry wrote on 2020-06-16, 00:26:
brostenen wrote on 2020-01-20, 22:15:That would be more in the realm of Voodoo1. By 1999, it did not matter if you used V3 or TNT2 and as you still would use TNT2 an […]
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That would be more in the realm of Voodoo1. By 1999, it did not matter if you used V3 or TNT2 and as you still would use TNT2 and V3 well into 2000, then you would also use DX7 for TNT2. Yes, M64 are bad.
Except.... You get the same out of V2-SLI than you get from V3-3000, and pairing V2-SLI up with one of the following, you get a way better Dos setup for 2D gaming.
- S3-Trio64v+
- S3-Virge325
- Cirrus Logic CL5446
Yes. Sure. If you have something like K6-II-500, K6-III-550 or P3-500/600 or something like those, then the best choice is still V3-3500. If you are only comparing V3 to TNT2. You still need to talk about were the card is used, as the card alone, can never speak in terms of what is the best solution. Hence I gave V2-SLI as the example.
Not sure I agree with the "way better Dos setup for 2D gaming" . According to both my personal experience and https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/ , other than Alien Trilogy in high colour and maybe the corner case of Tomb Raider with a PCX2, I don't see why the S3 and Cirrus based cards were significantly better than a Voodoo 3 . The Voodoo3 also had excellent VGA image quality in 2D (good RAMDAC and well designed analogue filtering), whereas the output quality of the S3 and CL cards varied between OEMs. Then there is the fact that, with Voodoo2, you still needed the crappy pass-through cable or a monitor with multiple VGA inputs . Then, there were the SLI related image issues. I had some at the time using two matched Voodoo2 cards and could never fully resolve them (gave up before I did). I'm not saying it's impossible to resolve them, just that it can be a hassle . Finally, there's the fact that a Voodoo2 SLI plus 2D card requires 3 PCI slots instead of one for a Voodoo 3.
Yup. I know most of those things, and of course you use an S3 of good quality. Those three cards I mentioned, are all better suited for 2D gfx in Dos, than any Voodoo cards. And of course you use high quality loopback cables, and if you happens to have mis matching V2's, then you use FasVoodoo 4.6 drivers. Issues solved, and you get a better overall machine for Dos games.
These things I mention, are kind of common knowledge here on Vogons. Just go and do a search, however it will be some job, to read through +10 years of posts.
The reason why those cards I mention, are better for Dos gaming, is that they are 100% compatible with Dos titles. Again. Use a card of good brand, as you get stuff like bad black levels on S3 cards. I recommend the Number9 version of Virge-325 for anything faster than Pentium-133/166. Voodoo3 for K6-II/III machines, because they are fastest and most compatible with those CPU's, and because you need more horsepowers for TNT2 and G400. Going for Pentium3-1000 and faster, I recommend something like TNT2 or GF2. As that CPU can deliver what the cards require.
My current main retro setup is a P3 1400Mhz with an FX 5900 (AGP) and a Voodoo 3 3000 and I have been using various flavour of S3 , CL and Trident cards and many others since the early nineties . I have also been lurking on Vogons for over a decade .
My point is not that that that the Voodoo 3 is necessarily THE BEST for any specific purpose (Glide, old VGA games compatibility, 2D image quality), but that the combination of strengths it does have make it a very compelling and practical choice .
You mention that CL and S3 cards are better compatibility wise, that may well be true, though, except for a things like lack of a dedicated CGA mode (not significant for my use), I don't find the Voodoo 3's VGA core to have significant issues with the games and demos that I have tried . The general consensus on Vogons, as far as I know, is that the Voodoo 3 VGA core is well regarded . That said, if there is a list of specific incompatibilities I may have missed, please point me towards it. Even if there is no list, I do not disagree that specifc incompatibilities must certainly exist . As an example, the Amnesia demo crashes on my Voodoo 3, but works fine on my FX 5900 . Nothing is 100% compatible with all VGA software and I, for one, will not be running after an ET4000 to play the Copper demo 100% accurately, for example. Nor will I be going back to a CRT (another point to consider if you want maximum compatibility with software that manipulates the VGA CRTC in peculiar ways) anytime soon .
As for my issue with Voodoo2 SLI, over 20 years ago, I was using matched Guillemot Voodoo 2 cards and still had issues, no matter what driver I tried . I then got a Voodoo3 2000 (at the time), that just worked without any issues with the games I was playing at the time (I was not playing ancient hard-coded Glide games that only work well on a Voodoo 1) . Things might well have improved for V2 SLI, since then, driver wise (though I still see the odd rant on Vogons), but I did not see the point in trying again as Voodoo2 SLI, does not have an advantage over Voodoo3 (Glide-wise) for my use case .
All that said, I hope you don't feel the need to convince me . I certainly don't feel the need to convince you . If it does happen, either way, and to whatever extent, thats fine too. Exchanging opinions and explaining their basis is one of the more interesting things on Vogons, IMHO . So if you do feel like you want talk more about VGA compatibility, please do . I am definitely open to learning something new on a subject that is interesting to me
Cheers!