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Some questions about a Hercules card

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First post, by muon

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Hi! Recently I get a Hercules card. This is a picture of card:

There are two empty socket. The card works properly. What are they for?
IMG-20201024-160416.jpg

IMG-20201024-160504.jpg

Other question: the block of jumpers. Someone know the meaning of them?
IMG-20201024-160523.jpg

Thanks in advance

Last edited by Stiletto on 2020-10-24, 17:33. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 22, by konc

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I can't help you much but judging from the naming of the pins in the jumper block I'd say that this card is a dual Hercules/CGA.
M/C should be mono/color, PTR should configure the parallel port (enable/disable/address).
From there on I can only guess that CG might enable/disable CGA and EMU could be emulating the CGA while in Hercules mode (like ATI small wonder does through software)

I have no clue about the dip sockets, except that 2764 should be an EPROM

Edit: Have a look at this card: https://arvutimuuseum.ee/th99/v/P-R/50414.htm

Last edited by konc on 2020-10-24, 15:24. Edited 3 times in total.

Reply 2 of 22, by debs3759

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M/C = MonoChrome
P = ?
TR = ?
CG = CGA
EMU = (Hercules?) EMUlation

It's not a Hercules card, it is a Hercules Emulator

See my graphics card database at www.gpuzoo.com
Constantly being worked on. Feel free to message me with any corrections or details of cards you would like me to research and add.

Reply 3 of 22, by Horun

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konc wrote on 2020-10-24, 15:17:

Edit: Have a look at this card: https://arvutimuuseum.ee/th99/v/P-R/50414.htm

Yes very close to the card and settings should be similar

The sockets are for a BIOS chip and Octal latch. Those would add CGA capability if not included in the motherboard iirc.
The jumpers are for setting the video Mono/CGA, LPT port (LPT1, 2, 3 or 4) and video emulation for MDA, Mono CGA, Color CGA.
I have a similar card Everex Edge II but luckily has the jumpers silkscreened....

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 4 of 22, by Grzyb

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EXT C G = EXTernal Character Generator
You can install there a 2764 ROM chip with some font, eg. one with national characters.

Żywotwór planetarny, jego gnijące błoto, jest świtem egzystencji, fazą wstępną, i wyłoni się z krwawych ciastomózgowych miedź miłująca...

Reply 5 of 22, by Horun

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Grzyb wrote on 2020-10-24, 16:01:

EXT C G = EXTernal Character Generator
You can install there a 2764 ROM chip with some font, eg. one with national characters.

Thanks ! I have one MDA/CGA card with a ROM chip and a few with empty socket and never really figured out why only the one has one...
Should remove it and see what difference it makes in FONT or charactor type.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 6 of 22, by muon

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You guys are a well of wisdom

Thanks a lot

Grzyb wrote on 2020-10-24, 16:01:

EXT C G = EXTernal Character Generator
You can install there a 2764 ROM chip with some font, eg. one with national characters.

What kind of IC I can Use for the 2764 ROM? I have a Minipro programmer. Where can I get a set of font for the ROM?

Horun wrote on 2020-10-24, 15:23:

The sockets are for a BIOS chip and Octal latch. Those would add CGA capability if not included in the motherboard iirc.
The jumpers are for setting the video Mono/CGA, LPT port (LPT1, 2, 3 or 4) and video emulation for MDA, Mono CGA, Color CGA.
I have a similar card Everex Edge II but luckily has the jumpers silkscreened....

Where I can get that IC ( Octal latch)?

Best regards

Reply 7 of 22, by mkarcher

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muon wrote on 2020-10-24, 17:06:
Grzyb wrote on 2020-10-24, 16:01:

EXT C G = EXTernal Character Generator
You can install there a 2764 ROM chip with some font, eg. one with national characters.

What kind of IC I can Use for the 2764 ROM? I have a Minipro programmer. Where can I get a set of font for the ROM?

You use a 2764 or a 27c64. An 2864 or 28c64 should be compatible. Check you MiniPro documentation for chips with numbers like that. "27" means you need a UV lamp to erase the chip, and the cheapest 27-type chips don't have the window, so you can't erase them at all. "28" means you can electrically erase them within seconds, you just need the minipro to reprogram the device. Any 27-type chip you buy from factory is already erased, so for a single programming process you don't need any erasure.

I don't know what layout the font has to have. If the external font is applicable for the MDA mode, you need 256 characters of 16 bytes each (14 bytes make up the image, and two bytes are wasted, to make the size per character a power of two). This will only use 4K of the 8K of the ROM, so it is likely that they might use the same ROM memory layout as the original MDA and CGA cards (but they use a different pinout!). The original MDA/CGA ROM has two CGA character sets of 2K each (8x8 pixels, one with thick and one with thin vertical lines) and one MDA character set (8x14 pixels). which nicely fits in the 8K you can store in a 2764-type programmable memory.

I don't know good sources for ROM contents, but this thread on Vogons discusses greek CGA/MDA font ROMs.

muon wrote on 2020-10-24, 17:06:
Horun wrote on 2020-10-24, 15:23:

The sockets are for a BIOS chip and Octal latch. Those would add CGA capability if not included in the motherboard iirc.
The jumpers are for setting the video Mono/CGA, LPT port (LPT1, 2, 3 or 4) and video emulation for MDA, Mono CGA, Color CGA.
I have a similar card Everex Edge II but luckily has the jumpers silkscreened....

Where I can get that IC ( Octal latch)?

Anywhere you can buy electronic components. The useful options depend on your location. The chip you need is named "74LS374". The card already says "LS374" on the silkscreen, and the 74 was supposed to be obvious to anyone into digital electronics. There are more modern variants of this chip that should be 100% compatible, like the "74HCT374". The "T" is important for full compatibility, but most likely, any "74...374" chip you can obtain will do.

I suppose the CG jumper is not about "CGA" though, as other posters guessed, but is used to switch between the internal character set and the external character generator ROM.

Reply 8 of 22, by Jo22

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mkarcher wrote on 2020-10-24, 17:27:

I suppose the CG jumper is not about "CGA" though, as other posters guessed, but is used to switch between the internal character set and the external character generator ROM.

I think the same. The card's IC likely contains the standard CP437 code page already.
The EPROM is meant to hold a copy of a foreign/national character set.
Say, Greek or French. For other languages (German etc) the ordinary CP437 may also suffice.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 9 of 22, by Grzyb

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Horun wrote on 2020-10-24, 16:35:

Should remove it and see what difference it makes in FONT or charactor type.

No need to remove the ROM - as others already stated, there should be a jumper to select internal/external CG.

Żywotwór planetarny, jego gnijące błoto, jest świtem egzystencji, fazą wstępną, i wyłoni się z krwawych ciastomózgowych miedź miłująca...

Reply 10 of 22, by mkarcher

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Horun wrote on 2020-10-24, 16:35:

Thanks ! I have one MDA/CGA card with a ROM chip and a few with empty socket and never really figured out why only the one has one...
Should remove it and see what difference it makes in FONT or charactor type.

If your card has a ROM chip and displays the normal extended IBM ASCII characters (code page 437), it is very likely that that card uses an older, not that highly integrated controller chip that doesn't have an integrated ROM. In fact, I did not realize until now that there were MDA/CGA controller chips that integrate the character ROM. On those late low-cost cards, no one would put an expensive ROM on the card if it could do without...

On the other hand, if the card with the ROM installed indeed has special characters (cyrillic, greek, hebrew), it might be that it can be switched to an internal CP437 font.

Reply 11 of 22, by Horun

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mkarcher wrote on 2020-10-24, 19:14:
Horun wrote on 2020-10-24, 16:35:

Thanks ! I have one MDA/CGA card with a ROM chip and a few with empty socket and never really figured out why only the one has one...
Should remove it and see what difference it makes in FONT or charactor type.

If your card has a ROM chip and displays the normal extended IBM ASCII characters (code page 437), it is very likely that that card uses an older, not that highly integrated controller chip that doesn't have an integrated ROM. In fact, I did not realize until now that there were MDA/CGA controller chips that integrate the character ROM. On those late low-cost cards, no one would put an expensive ROM on the card if it could do without...

On the other hand, if the card with the ROM installed indeed has special characters (cyrillic, greek, hebrew), it might be that it can be switched to an internal CP437 font.

Here is one MDA card with a soldered ROM, a Kouwell KW-526K. The other with a socketed ROM one is in my Luggable.

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Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 12 of 22, by mkarcher

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Horun wrote on 2020-10-24, 19:40:

Here is one MDA card with a soldered ROM, a Kouwell KW-526K. The other with a socketed ROM one is in my Luggable.

I also have a card with that TD3088 controller chip. My card also has a ROM soldered on it. I am very confident this card needs the ROM to operate properly. Cards without a ROM only work because a part of the controller chip (which will not be a TD3088) contains a copy what our cards have in the external ROM. Maybe we just misunderstood what you were trying to do. It doesn't seem to make sense to operate a card like that Kouwell KW-526K without any ROM at all. On the other hand, swapping the ROMs between two cards might make sense to find out if their ROM memory layout is compatible, or if they have different fonts and you prefer one font over another. I'd guess most CGA/MDA cards just have a (unlicensed?) copy of the original IBM MDA/CGA font ROM, though.

Reply 13 of 22, by Grzyb

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That TD3088A card seems to support 2732 ROM as well, ie. 4 KB, ie. not enough for the entire MDA/CGA set of 8x14+8x8thin+8x8thick.
Must be 8x14 only.

Żywotwór planetarny, jego gnijące błoto, jest świtem egzystencji, fazą wstępną, i wyłoni się z krwawych ciastomózgowych miedź miłująca...

Reply 14 of 22, by muon

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mkarcher wrote on 2020-10-24, 17:27:
You use a 2764 or a 27c64. An 2864 or 28c64 should be compatible. Check you MiniPro documentation for chips with numbers like th […]
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muon wrote on 2020-10-24, 17:06:
Grzyb wrote on 2020-10-24, 16:01:

EXT C G = EXTernal Character Generator
You can install there a 2764 ROM chip with some font, eg. one with national characters.

What kind of IC I can Use for the 2764 ROM? I have a Minipro programmer. Where can I get a set of font for the ROM?

You use a 2764 or a 27c64. An 2864 or 28c64 should be compatible. Check you MiniPro documentation for chips with numbers like that. "27" means you need a UV lamp to erase the chip, and the cheapest 27-type chips don't have the window, so you can't erase them at all. "28" means you can electrically erase them within seconds, you just need the minipro to reprogram the device. Any 27-type chip you buy from factory is already erased, so for a single programming process you don't need any erasure.

I don't know what layout the font has to have. If the external font is applicable for the MDA mode, you need 256 characters of 16 bytes each (14 bytes make up the image, and two bytes are wasted, to make the size per character a power of two). This will only use 4K of the 8K of the ROM, so it is likely that they might use the same ROM memory layout as the original MDA and CGA cards (but they use a different pinout!). The original MDA/CGA ROM has two CGA character sets of 2K each (8x8 pixels, one with thick and one with thin vertical lines) and one MDA character set (8x14 pixels). which nicely fits in the 8K you can store in a 2764-type programmable memory.

I don't know good sources for ROM contents, but this thread on Vogons discusses greek CGA/MDA font ROMs.

muon wrote on 2020-10-24, 17:06:
Horun wrote on 2020-10-24, 15:23:

The sockets are for a BIOS chip and Octal latch. Those would add CGA capability if not included in the motherboard iirc.
The jumpers are for setting the video Mono/CGA, LPT port (LPT1, 2, 3 or 4) and video emulation for MDA, Mono CGA, Color CGA.
I have a similar card Everex Edge II but luckily has the jumpers silkscreened....

Where I can get that IC ( Octal latch)?

Anywhere you can buy electronic components. The useful options depend on your location. The chip you need is named "74LS374". The card already says "LS374" on the silkscreen, and the 74 was supposed to be obvious to anyone into digital electronics. There are more modern variants of this chip that should be 100% compatible, like the "74HCT374". The "T" is important for full compatibility, but most likely, any "74...374" chip you can obtain will do.

I suppose the CG jumper is not about "CGA" though, as other posters guessed, but is used to switch between the internal character set and the external character generator ROM.

Hi again!!

Then Can I use this SN74HCT374N IC? link
and this eeprom AT28C64B-12PC? link

Reply 15 of 22, by mkarcher

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muon wrote on 2020-10-25, 07:10:
mkarcher wrote on 2020-10-24, 17:27:

You use a 2764 or a 27c64. An 2864 or 28c64 should be compatible.

The chip you need is named "74LS374". The card already says "LS374" on the silkscreen, and the 74 was supposed to be obvious to anyone into digital electronics. There are more modern variants of this chip that should be 100% compatible, like the "74HCT374".

Then Can I use this SN74HCT374N IC? link
and this eeprom AT28C64B-12PC? link

Yes. That chips should work perfectly in your card.

Reply 17 of 22, by Miphee

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Hi, could you identify this logo? It's on a generic-looking hercules card. No FCC, nothing on the back. Thanks.

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Reply 18 of 22, by Miphee

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Another one on a generic hercules card:

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Reply 19 of 22, by darry

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Miphee wrote on 2022-11-01, 18:00:

Hi, could you identify this logo? It's on a generic-looking hercules card. No FCC, nothing on the back. Thanks.

Dumping that EPROM and looking for text strings might provide a hint .