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Stupid Windows for Workgroups 3.11

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First post, by cyclone3d

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So I needed to install Windows 3.1 or 3.11 and so I went ahead and installed WFW 3.11.

It installed no problem and started up no problem after the initial install.

Mind you I am running Windows 98SE DOS but this didn't initially seem to be a problem at all.

After a reboot, I try to run WFW 3.11 and it tells me that it is the wrong version of DOS. Uggghhhh.

So then I try to install DOS 6.22 and lame DOS 6.22 of course thinks that the drive is a non-DOS partition and can't read it.

So now I am stuck installing DOS 6.22 onto floppies so I can copy over the files after they have been extracted so I can use stuff like SETVER to trick WFW 3.11 into running.

/rant

Edit.. well that didn't work. It doesn't copy setver on a floppy install.

Ended up using expand to expand setver - yay.

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Reply 1 of 23, by zyga64

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Making Windows 3.11 work in DOS7.10 (patches inside)

1) VLSI SCAMP /286@20 /4M /CL-GD5422 /CMI8330
2) i420EX /486DX33 /16M /TGUI9440 /GUS+ALS100+MT32PI
3) i430FX /K6-2@400 /64M /Rage Pro PCI /ES1370+YMF718
4) i440BX /P!!!750 /256M /MX440 /SBLive!
5) iB75 /3470s /4G /HD7750 /HDA

Reply 2 of 23, by cyclone3d

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Yep... I found that out just a couple minutes ago. Patched and working.

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Reply 3 of 23, by Jo22

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cyclone3d wrote on 2021-05-25, 07:19:

Yep... I found that out just a couple minutes ago. Patched and working.

Please be careful, though. Please don't trust WfW 3.11 or DOS 7.1

Personally, I'v encountered quite some issues if they ran along.
For example, the WfW directory was garbled after exiting WfW.

I had to leave the directory and enter it again.
Happened a few times.

Other issues:

rmay635703 wrote on 2019-07-04, 13:36:

With the patch on win3.1 running dos 7.x I’ve found many programs break

Encarta 95 blows up for example with a strange version error

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 4 of 23, by cyclone3d

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Yeah, I only really installed it on this system so I could run an install for a sound card driver. I don't actually have any other use for Windows 3.x at the moment.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 5 of 23, by Rikintosh

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I don't particularly recommend DOS 7 for win3.xx. Its best path is 6.22 + win 3.x One was built to be compatible with the other, it works perfectly. Dos 7 is unstable with win 3.x, occasionally you will experience this kind of problem, silly things happen all of a sudden.

Take a look at my blog: http://rikintosh.blogspot.com
My Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfRUbxkBmEihBEkIK32Hilg

Reply 6 of 23, by Jorpho

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cyclone3d wrote on 2021-05-25, 16:54:

Yeah, I only really installed it on this system so I could run an install for a sound card driver.

Which one? If this is one of the Creative Labs DOS drivers, then there are ways to fool it into thinking that Win9x is not present; there have been posts about it before.

Reply 7 of 23, by cyclone3d

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No, it was to install the Orchid Soundwave 32 Pro driver set. All the lower models have installers that work in DOS, but this model has an installer that only works in Windows.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 9 of 23, by cyclone3d

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2021-06-02, 22:33:

It’s NOT Win-3.11 thats the problem it’s DOS.
Too many versions of DOS that are NOT compatible with each other.

Ever since Windows 95a came out, I've been using the Windows version of DOS with the DOS6.22 supplemental disk (DOS 5 stuff that was not provided with DOS 6 or higher). Never had a single problem.

I don't really get what you are trying to say. What is your point?

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 10 of 23, by Caluser2000

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2021-06-02, 22:33:

It’s NOT Win-3.11 thats the problem it’s DOS.
Too many versions of DOS that are NOT compatible with each other.

What a fib. I'm sorry to say but you definitely have NO idea what you are talking about.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 11 of 23, by Jo22

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^ok boomer

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 12 of 23, by Intel486dx33

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There is only one version on Win-3.11
But many versions of DOS and the binaries are not compatible on different versions of DOS.
5.0
6.0
6.22
7.1
Etc....

These different version binaries are not compatible with each other.

Reply 13 of 23, by Caluser2000

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2021-06-03, 05:09:
There is only one version on Win-3.11 But many versions of DOS and the binaries are not compatible on different versions of DOS. […]
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There is only one version on Win-3.11
But many versions of DOS and the binaries are not compatible on different versions of DOS.
5.0
6.0
6.22
7.1
Etc....

These different version binaries are not compatible with each other.

Hmmmmmm........ So we are changing thew goal posts now. See my previous post thank you.
. ie applications. running on DrDos?

Did you know the dos edit programed from win98 works on previoous versions of Dos. including DrDos and IBM/PC Dos. And there are plenty of other examples.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 16 of 23, by cyclone3d

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2021-06-03, 14:19:
Usually you get problems with different DOS versions of the following files. Command.com MSCDEX.exe Himem.sys Etc. […]
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Usually you get problems with different DOS versions of the following files.
Command.com
MSCDEX.exe
Himem.sys
Etc.

So you just use ones that work.

I'm have the Windows ME himem emm386 and smartdrv on this install though only himem is currently being used.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 17 of 23, by Dusko

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2021-06-03, 14:19:
Usually you get problems with different DOS versions of the following files. Command.com MSCDEX.exe Himem.sys Etc. […]
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Usually you get problems with different DOS versions of the following files.
Command.com
MSCDEX.exe
Himem.sys
Etc.

Exactly!...
I just want to share my short lived experience with DOS 7.x. As per all the hype I have read in forums about DOS 7.x over the last few years, I decided to replace my DOS 6.22 with 7.1 thinking it was going to be a nice overall improvement for my 486, especially the long file names (correct me if I'm wrong on that one), the FAT32 support and to be honest, I don't know what else. (If you know what else, please let me know).
Well, this is what I didn't like:
- The boot message "Starting MS-DOS..." changed to: Starting Windows 9x" (depending on the version you get)
- Windows splash screen on boot (can be removed)
- Windows 3.11 didn't run (I don't remember the exact error message)
This 3 basic things turned me off because I wanted my 486 to run exactly as I remember it. I was thinking DOS 7.x will improve the "backend" without me noticing any difference in the look and feel, but it did. My points may be extremely irrelevant to some people and I get it, but if whoever reads this thinks the same way I do, now you know. The other thing I didn't want to bother with was the workarounds to make it somewhat compatible with software/drivers that are expecting 6.22.
BTW, my 486 66MHz with DOS 6.22 and Win 3.11 runs great, SB Pro 2, HardMPU + MT-32 / SC-55, 32Mb ram, Diamonth Steath 3D 2000 2Mb (or 4, I don't remember right now), I have had no issues with any games or programs.
I remember back in the day I used QEMM, but MS Memmaker has done the job so far.
In any case, if I need a faster PC I have a Win 95 200MHz and it'll do just fine on whatever DOS game that runs better on DOS 7.x. I have more PCs but that's not the point here.
Anyway, the best setup is the one you want and that will make you happy. It has been a wonderful journey for me, besides the headaches I had along the way when something didn't work.
Hope this helps someone.
Best.

https://www.youtube.com/@myoldpc9458

Reply 18 of 23, by Rikintosh

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Dusko wrote on 2021-12-14, 06:31:
Exactly!... I just want to share my short lived experience with DOS 7.x. As per all the hype I have read in forums about DOS 7. […]
Show full quote
Intel486dx33 wrote on 2021-06-03, 14:19:
Usually you get problems with different DOS versions of the following files. Command.com MSCDEX.exe Himem.sys Etc. […]
Show full quote

Usually you get problems with different DOS versions of the following files.
Command.com
MSCDEX.exe
Himem.sys
Etc.

Exactly!...
I just want to share my short lived experience with DOS 7.x. As per all the hype I have read in forums about DOS 7.x over the last few years, I decided to replace my DOS 6.22 with 7.1 thinking it was going to be a nice overall improvement for my 486, especially the long file names (correct me if I'm wrong on that one), the FAT32 support and to be honest, I don't know what else. (If you know what else, please let me know).
Well, this is what I didn't like:
- The boot message "Starting MS-DOS..." changed to: Starting Windows 9x" (depending on the version you get)
- Windows splash screen on boot (can be removed)
- Windows 3.11 didn't run (I don't remember the exact error message)
This 3 basic things turned me off because I wanted my 486 to run exactly as I remember it. I was thinking DOS 7.x will improve the "backend" without me noticing any difference in the look and feel, but it did. My points may be extremely irrelevant to some people and I get it, but if whoever reads this thinks the same way I do, now you know. The other thing I didn't want to bother with was the workarounds to make it somewhat compatible with software/drivers that are expecting 6.22.
BTW, my 486 66MHz with DOS 6.22 and Win 3.11 runs great, SB Pro 2, HardMPU + MT-32 / SC-55, 32Mb ram, Diamonth Steath 3D 2000 2Mb (or 4, I don't remember right now), I have had no issues with any games or programs.
I remember back in the day I used QEMM, but MS Memmaker has done the job so far.
In any case, if I need a faster PC I have a Win 95 200MHz and it'll do just fine on whatever DOS game that runs better on DOS 7.x. I have more PCs but that's not the point here.
Anyway, the best setup is the one you want and that will make you happy. It has been a wonderful journey for me, besides the headaches I had along the way when something didn't work.
Hope this helps someone.
Best.

I fully agree, and I was disappointed in the same way.

When I found msdos 7 many years ago, initially I thought it was an original microsoft version that was just improved by someone, but I found out that it's just a modification of the windows 98 dos, which some Chinese created.

I tried several times to use it, but it always failed to meet my needs, it's more than worth your time with 6.22. I ended up developing my own 6.22 with long filename support, ntfs and fat32.

Take a look at my blog: http://rikintosh.blogspot.com
My Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfRUbxkBmEihBEkIK32Hilg

Reply 19 of 23, by Dusko

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Great to hear I'm not the only one. Do you mind sharing your custom Dos version? That sounds interesting! Do you have any issues with software/drivers? Windows 3.xx?

No hard feelings if you don't feel like sharing it.

https://www.youtube.com/@myoldpc9458