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The World's Fastest 486

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Reply 500 of 747, by Chadti99

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pshipkov wrote on 2021-08-07, 04:09:

I know you are tweaking that for the sake of the sport, but not sure you will find greener grass there.
SIS is clock-to-clock faster than UMC.

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Yes that’s what I keep reading but I haven’t seen it with the one LS486 board I have. Probably due to the slowest cache timings I’m stuck at. I’ll try some different cache modules for sure.

So far the LS is “Windows Install” stable with a score of 19.0 and the UUD board seems to be stable with a 19.4 score.

I really like how the LS board will operate at a lower voltage at 180MHz, onboard IDE is stable at 60MHz 1:1 PCI, and is able to run Voodoo Banshee/3 boards.

Last edited by Chadti99 on 2021-08-07, 11:43. Edited 3 times in total.

Reply 501 of 747, by Chadti99

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-09-25, 17:57:

Success! 20.2 fps on overclocked 486! Achieved by using VESA 320x200 mode instead of standard VGA mode.

Quake 20 fps on AMD 5x86-180 Mhz.jpg

Hi Serpent, what tool did you use for VESA? This was with a Voodoo 3 correct? I’d like to try it with my Banshee.

Reply 502 of 747, by The Serpent Rider

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No, that was with Matrox Mystique 220 and UniVBE to add low-res modes. Quake does not list VESA 320x200 by default, but it's accessible via console - "vid_describemodes" followed by "vid_mode <insert mode number>".

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 503 of 747, by Chadti99

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Face palm you guys, plugged an EDO stick into the LS486E and now I’m hitting 19.4, same as the 8433UUD under stable settings.

I know it’s not news to anyone but here are the speedsys results between FPM and EDO on the LS486.

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Reply 504 of 747, by feipoa

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3 MB/s increase in DRAM speed seems about right for 486 boards which properly support EDO. I guess you just need to add PS/2 mouse support to the LS-486E to make it an all rounder.

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 505 of 747, by Chadti99

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2021-08-07, 12:47:

No, that was with Matrox Mystique 220 and UniVBE to add low-res modes. Quake does not list VESA 320x200 by default, but it's accessible via console - "vid_describemodes" followed by "vid_mode <insert mode number>".

Hot damn, thank you Serpent, had no idea these commands existed. Bumped my score from 19.4 to 19.9 on both a Riva128 and Banshee using vid_mode 16. I’ll dig my Mystique out later and try that as well. Now I need to go back and try this on my POD100 setup.

*To keep to the spirit of this thread I’ll only submit Phil’s dosbench scores. Def happy to find more frames though!

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Reply 507 of 747, by Chadti99

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lukas12p wrote on 2021-08-07, 13:29:

I have also compared EDO vs FPM on LS-486 board there
Re: The World's Fastest 486

Thanks, I knew I had already read this somewhere. Remind me, are you using a peltier to hit 200Mhz? If so can you tell me what parts are needed to assemble a working setup?

Reply 508 of 747, by feipoa

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Now that the AMD Am5x86 at 180 and 200 MHz has been beaten to death, is anyone up to the challenge to break 20.0 fps on an IBM/Cyrix 5x86? I bet with the peltier 150 MHz may be possible.

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 509 of 747, by The Serpent Rider

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Bumped my score from 19.4 to 19.9 on both a Riva128 and Banshee using vid_mode 16.

Keep in mind that it's worth to try benching with "vid_wait" set to 0 and "vid_nopageflip" set to 1.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 510 of 747, by Chadti99

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feipoa wrote on 2021-08-07, 13:46:

Now that the AMD Am5x86 at 180 and 200 MHz has been beaten to death, is anyone up to the challenge to break 20.0 fps on an IBM/Cyrix 5x86? I bet with the peltier 150 MHz may be possible.

I would like to see this as well!

Reply 511 of 747, by Chadti99

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2021-08-07, 13:49:

Bumped my score from 19.4 to 19.9 on both a Riva128 and Banshee using vid_mode 16.

Keep in mind that it's worth to try benching with "vid_wait" set to 0 and "vid_nopageflip" set to 1.

Got it, I’ll test it out. A bit outside the scope of this thread but my POD/UMC system hates VESA modes so far. Big drop in performance, so strange.

Last edited by Chadti99 on 2021-08-07, 18:46. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 512 of 747, by frankmonk

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feipoa wrote on 2021-08-07, 13:46:

Now that the AMD Am5x86 at 180 and 200 MHz has been beaten to death, is anyone up to the challenge to break 20.0 fps on an IBM/Cyrix 5x86? I bet with the peltier 150 MHz may be possible.

Damn, I would love to see that happening!

Reply 513 of 747, by rmay635703

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frankmonk wrote on 2021-08-07, 18:17:
feipoa wrote on 2021-08-07, 13:46:

Now that the AMD Am5x86 at 180 and 200 MHz has been beaten to death, is anyone up to the challenge to break 20.0 fps on an IBM/Cyrix 5x86? I bet with the peltier 150 MHz may be possible.

Damn, I would love to see that happening!

Need an adapter to disable all the doodads so you can toss a MediaGX 333 sans video on a standard motherboard

Reply 514 of 747, by Chadti99

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Chadti99 wrote on 2021-08-06, 11:56:
For anyone interested, I got the following results at 180MHz(60x3) in GLQuake. All tests with sound @512x384 unless noted. Both […]
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For anyone interested, I got the following results at 180MHz(60x3) in GLQuake. All tests with sound @512x384 unless noted. Both boards with 256k cache and the tightest timings I could get.

LS486E-C2 w/3dfx Banshee = 23.3fps
LS486E-C2 w/3dfx Voodoo 2 = 24.5fps
PCI 1:1

8433UUD w/3dfx Banshee = no post
8433UUD w/3dfx Voodoo 2 = 26.6fps
8433UUD w/3dfx Voodoo 2 = 29.3fps* no sound
8433UUD w/3dfx Voodoo 2 = 29.1fps* no sound 640x480
PCI 1:2/3

Both the Banshee and Voodoo 2 seem happy at 60MHz PCI speeds.

The 8433 isn’t quite stable at these settings but I’m hoping to find the right combo soon.

Just wanted to share my frustration that I can’t seem to hit these same numbers on my 8433UUD board anymore. If I set the cache timings where I think I had them, insta-crash with GLQuake and a Voodoo 2. Strangely enough my Voodoo Rush works fine at those same timings. 25.1 fps is the closest I can get now. No idea what changed other than me pulling cache modules but I re-installed them in the same order. You gotta love this old hardware.

Reply 515 of 747, by The Serpent Rider

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Not many aware, but Voodoo 2 was actually released for AGP slot too by Quantum3D. So 66 Mhz PCI stable work is probably by design.

Last edited by The Serpent Rider on 2021-08-16, 09:20. Edited 1 time in total.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 516 of 747, by lukas12p

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Chadti99 wrote on 2021-08-07, 13:35:
lukas12p wrote on 2021-08-07, 13:29:

I have also compared EDO vs FPM on LS-486 board there
Re: The World's Fastest 486

Thanks, I knew I had already read this somewhere. Remind me, are you using a peltier to hit 200Mhz? If so can you tell me what parts are needed to assemble a working setup?

Yes, I use peltier. So You need more than 60W one (I use some Chinese that are rated 240W, but they are fake..), power for it (12V@5A) and big heatsink with fans. You need to cool CPU to less than 10C to boot and to 2-3C to make some tests in DOS.

Reply 517 of 747, by kool kitty89

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Well, I was playing around with my C4PI Rev A01 motherboard and the one AM5x86 I have that does 180 MHz reliably (doesn't need much overvoltage either, 3.5V seems fine, and will also do 160 at 3.1V). It's an SiS 496/497 board that supports 3.1 to 4.0V (plus probably a 5V setting I don't know) and looks to support up to 1 MB of L2 cache, but for the life of me I haven't seen any documentation for the jumper settings, and there's some 30+ jumper positions in the cache block.

It supports 33, 40, 50, 60, and 66 MHz FSB (I think it does 25 and 30 MHz too, I haven't formally documented all the configurations) It also needs the turbo switch jumpered closed for normal/full speed mode.

Thanks to another ebay listing of the same board with 256 kB cache instead of the 128k of mine, I've got it working at 256kB now with cache timing at fastest (2 clock read, 2 clock write, 1 clock burst). I had to change 4 of the jumpers to do this, I think (and missing one reported 256k but then wouldn't boot from the flash disk). 15 ns cache + tag seems sufficient for the fastest timings at 60 MHz fsb, but none of my DRAM is fast enough to completely max out.

The BIOS doesn't allow WB cache to be enabled on the 5x86, so I'm in WT (I've got 7-bit tag enabled for fast WB L2 cache, though). I may be able to enable WB L1 via a register tweaking utility in DOS, though.

It's stuck at the 3x multiplier setting for AMD/Cyrix/Intel CPUs and the BIOS seems to have issues with any of my Cyrix 486DX4s or 5x86s set to 3x mode (DX2s seem fine, even though the feature sets are the same as the DX4) so I haven't been able to try anything at 2x66 MHz yet, though I think I'd need to up to 12 ns cache (or at least tag) to get the fastest timing at 66 MHz. (only thing I've run that fast on the board is a couple DX-50s and an SX-33, same for the Acorp 496/497 board I've got, though that was using 5V as it only seems to have 3.46 and 5V settings ... I also think I damaged the sockets pins with the overly-long legs of the QFP-board mounted 5x86 I've had in it as no other CPU will post now: they're overly long and thick/rigid legs, like machined PGA socket pins, but longer, and I think I forced it in too deep)

Anyway, with a recent batch of tests I ran with a few different video cards (including a Pedmidia 2 to compare with CPU Galaxy's results) and it seems to be dead even with several other cards in 320x200:
Matrox Millenium II, Matrox G450, S3 Virge 325 and 375 (albeit they give palette errors in quake), Voodoo 3 2000, Trio64, and (somewhat surprisingly) my sole Diamond Stealth Trio32 card. The 640x480 PC Player scored varied more and the Permidia 2 only got 11 FPS and Trio 32 10.5 while the others all gave 12.5. Even more surprisingly, that Trio32 didn't give palette errors in quake at 60 MHz PCI and worked fine, but was stuck in B&W mode for the DOS shell and anything that sticks to the default palette (I think) like 3D Bench and some game menus and some games, so it's not perfect at 60 MHz. (it's also the oldest card I had working in it, week 1 1995 date code on the chip, older than the week 11 1995 motherboard chipset date)

I had a few other cards that would POST but not display video, and a Rage XL that wouldn't display quake, plus an MPact2 3DVD that would POST and then go into something other than 60 Hz at the POST table and in DOS, so I got no video on my old Gem LCD monitor (I assume it's defaulting to 72 Hz or something, even though 480 line VGA resolutions are traditionally 60 Hz). I've got a cramped makeshift testing area for the time being, so lugging out a CRT wasn't worth the trouble. (Geforce MX400 and a pair of TnT2s wouldn't work, and more surprisingly a Tseng ET4000 PCI wouldn't work)

A pair of cheap little SiS 6326 cards didn't do that much worse than the fastest ones (19.0 FPS Quake, 28.0 FPS PC Player, 12.2 FPS PC PLayer 640x480) surprisingly. Though video signal quality and colors were worse. (picture quality was best with the Millenium II, plus the monitor seemed to auto-calibrate better with that, conveniently)

I've got some Cachecheck and Speedsys scores, too. (and screenshots I can upload later)

I don't think I've beaten any records, just matched some and beaten some old records (like the 19.4 FPS quake score)

Short of getting faster RAM (I have some 50 ns EDO and one pair of 45 ns EDO SIMMS, but none of them work in this board, FPM only) or finding the jumper settings for 1MB cache, I think enabling WB for the L1 would be the main improvement possible in this board.
Well, that or maybe some further tweaking since there's a spot for a crystal oscillator on the PCB that might be for a fixed/discrete system bus speed rather than the typical programmable clock oscillators used (a feature I've mostly seen on 1993 and older boards), but I'm not sure I'd want to try to modify the board in that way, or if it would even be possible without more jumper documentation. (or laborious pin and trace analysis) But given it natively does 66 MHz already, this seems like a non issue for anything but maybe 2x 68-75 MHz. (I've got an ST 486 DX4s that runs at 3x48 at 5V without issue, so 2x72 might be a possibility; 3x50 is too much for it, though)

See preliminary results below:

All from Phill's DOS Benchmark pack v 1.4
Scores for all the fast cards (but you can read that as Matrox Millenium II)

320x200 scores:
Quake: 19.6 FPS

PC Player: 28.3

3DBench 2: 111.0

Doom: 1168 realtics

other:
PC Player 640x480: 12.5

Quake 360x480: 9.2

Note: Quake 640x480 would not work (defaulted to 320x200) and Quake doesn't give options for resolutions above 360x480 for some reason in my setup.

Reply 518 of 747, by pshipkov

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Btw, a while ago hit another 21.8 fps number in Q1. This time with LuckyStar revision D at 3x66.
Some details in this and surrounding it posts.
Apart from the icing from the 12V Peltier, the system is long term stable.

retro bits and bytes

Reply 519 of 747, by Intel486dx33

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Chadti99 wrote on 2021-08-07, 13:10:

Face palm you guys, plugged an EDO stick into the LS486E and now I’m hitting 19.4, same as the 8433UUD under stable settings.

I know it’s not news to anyone but here are the speedsys results between FPM and EDO on the LS486.

Can you post a photo of your motherboard jumper setting ?
Mine is running at 160mhz.