VOGONS


Reply 200 of 215, by Sombrero

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Have you played around with the 28MB creative soundfont (28MBGM.sf2) from PCI X-Fi driver CD? Apparently that too still has at least some GS support even though it's from 2006.

Just curious, I didn't know such a thing existed and it gave me a chuckle when I found it from the driver CD 😁

Reply 201 of 215, by Joseph_Joestar

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Sombrero wrote on 2024-03-07, 15:02:

Have you played around with the 28MB creative soundfont (28MBGM.sf2) from PCI X-Fi driver CD? Apparently that too still has at least some GS support even though it's from 2006.

Just curious, I didn't know such a thing existed and it gave me a chuckle when I found it from the driver CD 😁

Hah, I had no idea that was a thing either! 😁 Do you have a link to the specific driver CD which contains that soundfont? I checked my X-Fi Titanum Fatal1ty CD and it only has the 2, 4, and 8 MB versions that I mentioned earlier.

EDIT - seems to be on the Vista driver CD. Apparently, some fellow Vogons users were not particularly impressed by it.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 202 of 215, by Sombrero

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-03-07, 15:48:

Hah, I had no idea that was a thing either! 😁 Do you have a link to the specific driver CD which contains that soundfont? I checked my X-Fi Titanum Fatal1ty CD and it only has the 2, 4, and 8 MB versions that I mentioned earlier.

EDIT - seems to be on the Vista driver CD. Apparently, some fellow Vogons users were not particularly impressed by it.

I got an original driver CD with a PCI X-Fi Fatality I bought and it's in there. It has XP drivers so I don't at least think it's the Vista CD.

But if the Vista CD has it have a look if you feel like it, looks like the image is at vogons drivers. I can also upload the .sf2 somewhere if it isn't.

Reply 203 of 215, by Joseph_Joestar

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Sombrero wrote on 2024-03-07, 15:57:

I got an original driver CD with a PCI X-Fi Fatality I bought and it's in there. It has XP drivers so I don't at least think it's the Vista CD.

But if the Vista CD has it have a look if you feel like it, looks like the image is at vogons drivers. I can also upload the .sf2 somewhere if it isn't.

I found it on this X-Fi Vista driver CD which is indeed hosted on Vogonsdrivers. Seems to behave the same as 8GMGSMT.SF2 with regards to GS. Meaning, most effects in the Dune 2 intro sound wrong (rockets sounding like a telephone is ringing etc). Maybe the sample quality is a bit higher than on the 8MB version, but in terms of GS compatibility, there isn't much difference.

It seems like Creative stopped caring about GS instruments around 1998 or so.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 204 of 215, by Sombrero

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-03-07, 16:11:

It seems like Creative stopped caring about GS instruments around 1998 or so.

Right, expected as much. I did give it a very quick try when I found it but I honestly wasn't sure did I hear any difference between it and the 8MB version so I just put it aside as a curiosity.

It would have been rather surprising (and hilarious) had X-Fi shipped with some ultimate soundfont for DOS. Buy the Fatality edition, get XRAM effects for DOOM!

Reply 205 of 215, by Falcosoft

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Hi,

Regarding the different SF2 soundfonts from Creative:
1. 28MBGM.sf2 has one of the biggest bugs ever made in an 'officially' released soundfont by Creative/Emu. Namely it completely misses Picked Bass (34) preset from the capital tones. So its usage is absolutely not recommended. Its characteristics is almost the same as the 4/8 MB soundfonts (but has more serious bugs) and there are much better sounding/less buggy soundfonts in the ~30MB range. It has only 135 presets (missing Picked Bass and no GS/MT-32 variation tones at all but it has 8 GS drum kits). Considering its size it is a rather mediocre 28MB soundfont.
Here is a test file attached to confirm the above bug:
download/file.php?id=129937

2. 8MBGMSFX.SF2/CT8MGM.SF2 (exactly the same one) is somewhere between the above and the 4MB one: it has 137 presets (so no GS/MT-32 variation tones at all, but has 9 GS drum kits). Compared to the 28MB one at least it has fully implemented capital tones (Picked Bass is not missing) and also has SFX Drum set at program 56 on channel 10. Otherwise it also has the same characteristics as the others.

3. 4GMGSMT.SF2/CT4MGM.SF2 (exactly the same one) is a decent 4MB SF2 soundfont with 329 presets (full GS variation tones and Drum sets + MT-32 tones and Drum set) . Arguably the 4GMGSMT.SF2 version is the most feature rich since it contains the most variation tones and drum sets.

All the above SF2 soundfonts have rather serious instrument range definition bugs. Try them e.g. with Storm.mid from Duke Nukem3D. The cricket mimicking effect is completely missing at the beginning:
download/file.php?id=129928

A decade ago I fixed some bugs in the 4MB one since it was the most feature rich and had the best performance/size ratio:
download/file.php?id=129934

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Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi
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Reply 206 of 215, by Joseph_Joestar

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Falcosoft wrote on 2024-03-07, 16:59:

3. 4GMGSMT.SF2/CT4MGM.SF2 (exactly the same one) is a decent 4MB SF2 soundfont with 329 presets (full GS variation tones and Drum sets + MT-32 tones and Drum set) . Arguably the 4GMGSMT.SF2 version is the most feature rich since it contains the most variation tones and drum sets.

Interesting! I noticed the same thing while testing the Dune 2 intro, but it's good to have proper confirmation from someone who has examined the soundfont in detail.

To my ears, CT8MGM.SF2 has a slight advantage in sample quality over CT4MGM.SF2 which is why I use it for General MIDI only games. The 4MB version should of course be used for games which utilize GS instruments.

Falcosoft wrote on 2024-03-07, 16:59:

All the above SF2 soundfonts have rather serious instrument range definition bugs. Try them e.g. with Storm.mid from Duke Nukem3D. The cricket mimicking effect is completely missing at the beginning:

I can confirm this. The default version of CT4MGM.SF2 doesn't play the "beeping" sound at the start of the track, while your fixed version does.

If you don't mind, can I use your fixed version of the file when I next update the driver CD image? Might take a while, but there's bound to be another update at some point.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 207 of 215, by Falcosoft

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-03-07, 18:51:

I can confirm this. The default version of CT4MGM.SF2 doesn't play the "beeping" sound at the start of the track, while your fixed version does.

If you don't mind, can I use your fixed version of the file when I next update the driver CD image? Might take a while, but there's bound to be another update at some point.

Yes, of course.

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Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi
VST Midi Driver Midi Mapper

Reply 208 of 215, by mtest001

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-03-07, 13:16:

Listen to the this playlist to check how games sound on a SBLive using this SC-55 soundfont. For comparison, here's how the games sound on a real Roland Sound Canvas.

Do you confirm that there is a minimum RAM requirement to use the SC-55 soundfont ? I read in an earlier message on this thread that it requires at least 128 MB if not 256...

/me love my P200MMX@225 Mhz + Voodoo Banshee + SB Live! + Sound Canvas SC-55ST = unlimited joy !

Reply 209 of 215, by Joseph_Joestar

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mtest001 wrote on 2024-04-26, 14:55:

Do you confirm that there is a minimum RAM requirement to use the SC-55 soundfont ? I read in an earlier message on this thread that it requires at least 128 MB if not 256...

On SBLive/Audigy cards soundfonts get loaded into system memory (RAM). Since this particular SC-55 soundfont takes up around 47MB, I wouldn't recommend loading it on a PC with less than 128MB RAM.

This is because RAM taken up by the soundfont cannot be used by the operating system and/or games, at least that's what Creative's documentation implies.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 210 of 215, by badconduct

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I tried really hard to get an Audigy SB0160 working. I could get the card working on a fresh Windows 98SE install... but I'd get hammered with BSODs and crashing, then the card just stopped showing up in system. The Joystick port also never shows up.
Trying to get it running on a previous installed OS would break everything, sound on another card would barely work, frequent crashing etc...
Ended up sticking with my OPTiAudio 16 ISA.

I am a bit disappointed, I really wanted the EAX, but that card has created so much instability on my rig, I've never had it running smoothly. I'm going to do a fresh install (again) and not try installing it.

Reply 211 of 215, by Joseph_Joestar

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badconduct wrote on 2024-08-12, 19:16:

I tried really hard to get an Audigy SB0160 working. I could get the card working on a fresh Windows 98SE install... but I'd get hammered with BSODs and crashing, then the card just stopped showing up in system.

Just wondering since you're posting here, did you use the correct guide for installing the Audigy drivers? This one is for SBLive cards only. I have a different guide and driver image for Audigy cards.

That said, I'm not too familiar with the SB0160, but from what I gather, that's an Audigy ES. I'm unsure of the exact specifications of that model, but there have been reports that SBLive and Audigy cards with LE/SE/ES suffixes might need specific drivers i.e. the ones from the installation CD that they shipped with.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 212 of 215, by badconduct

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-08-12, 19:36:
badconduct wrote on 2024-08-12, 19:16:

I tried really hard to get an Audigy SB0160 working. I could get the card working on a fresh Windows 98SE install... but I'd get hammered with BSODs and crashing, then the card just stopped showing up in system.

Just wondering since you're posting here, did you use the correct guide for installing the Audigy drivers? This one is for SBLive cards only. I have a different guide and driver image for Audigy cards.

That said, I'm not too familiar with the SB0160, but from what I gather, that's an Audigy ES. I'm unsure of the exact specifications of that model, but there have been reports that SBLive and Audigy cards with LE/SE/ES suffixes might need specific drivers i.e. the ones from the installation CD that they shipped with.

I did not see that one, although the steps are pretty similar. I have 3 ISO's for Audigy, it is VERY possible I don't have the right disk for it. I'm confident I had this working properly at one point, but it's never worked since I formatted it years ago. It's been unstable and crashing, audio driver disappears, game port doesn't show up...
Creative doesn't show the disk anymore under their support page either.

Reply 213 of 215, by Joseph_Joestar

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badconduct wrote on 2024-08-12, 23:37:

I did not see that one, although the steps are pretty similar. I have 3 ISO's for Audigy, it is VERY possible I don't have the right disk for it.

Not sure which ISO you used, but the latest versions of both of my guides include customized driver CD images, which are uploaded to Vogonsdrivers. Only those are intended to be used with the guides.

Here's my customized Audigy driver image, but as mentioned earlier, I can't say if that will work on an ES model.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 214 of 215, by kingcake

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Thank you for your work on this. I've had a Dell OEM Live card that I tried a half dozen ISOs with and never got it to work. This worked on the first try! (CT4870).

Does the DOS support need to be installed for DOS games being run under Win98SE? Or is it only for pure DOS mode?

Reply 215 of 215, by Joseph_Joestar

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kingcake wrote on 2024-08-31, 01:38:

Thank you for your work on this. I've had a Dell OEM Live card that I tried a half dozen ISOs with and never got it to work. This worked on the first try! (CT4870).

You're welcome!

Does the DOS support need to be installed for DOS games being run under Win98SE?

That's right. Without installing the DOS component, the card will have no SB16 emulation, and will work as a Windows only device. Running DOS games on SBLive cards (even from within the Windows command prompt) requires SB16 emulation.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi