pshipkov wrote on 2022-04-17, 17:13:

I am the last person who will tell others how to build their retro computers but we know that these assemblies dont get much action once put together other than some testing and occasional quick runs. Assuming all the good things you achived with the MSI board - is ps2 mouse such a deal breaker ?

I have 4 retro systems hooked up to a PS/2 KVM and they all get used at least once a week. These are what I consider my flagship builds, since I actually game and use old software on them

pshipkov wrote on 2022-04-17, 17:13:

I am the last person who will tell others how to build their retro computers but we know that these assemblies dont get much act […]
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I am the last person who will tell others how to build their retro computers but we know that these assemblies dont get much action once put together other than some testing and occasional quick runs. Assuming all the good things you achived with the MSI board - is ps2 mouse such a deal breaker ?

Btw, did you run some of the heavy compute tests ?
I remember the board being slow overall.
Wonder if at 4x50 things changed for the better.

No heavy compute tests yet. I’d like to be able to game on my cased systems from time to time and It’s not the experience I want with a serial mouse. I’m hoping I can perform the PS2 mod though.

If you get the chance to retest the MSI at 4x50 please let us know how it goes.

Chadti99: Sounds to me like you should mod the MS-4144 to use a native PS/2 mouse. If I recall, all the solder points are pretty much in place, just missing the components. Did I do a full write up on modding the MS-4144 for PS/2? I think I did, even gave part specs. For me, if I cannot use native PS/2 mice through my KVM, it is a deal breaker. I've only not modified one cased board because of the rarity - a NexGen 110PF. That board uses the Rio444 adapter. I've also not performed the 1024K mod on it, again because of rarity.

feipoa wrote on 2022-04-18, 01:54:

Chadti99: Sounds to me like you should mod the MS-4144 to use a native PS/2 mouse. If I recall, all the solder points are pretty much in place, just missing the components. Did I do a full write up on modding the MS-4144 for PS/2? I think I did, even gave part specs. For me, if I cannot use native PS/2 mice through my KVM, it is a deal breaker. I've only not modified one cased board because of the rarity - a NexGen 110PF. That board uses the Rio444 adapter. I've also not performed the 1024K mod on it, again because of rarity.

I agree, I see a write up on the Chaintech 486SPM but not one for the MS-4144 specifically, are they pretty much identical for the purpose of the mod?

The 486 computer was the beginning of the Mass produced Multimedia computer for the public and consumers.
The first affordable home multimedia computer at $2500 USD with monitor.
Many computer companies where selling these with 486-dx33 CPU, 4mb ram, and 2x CDROM drive with Sound card, 120mb hard drive and 14.4 dial up modem.

Chadti99 wrote on 2022-04-18, 02:17:

feipoa wrote on 2022-04-18, 01:54:

Chadti99: Sounds to me like you should mod the MS-4144 to use a native PS/2 mouse. If I recall, all the solder points are pretty much in place, just missing the components. Did I do a full write up on modding the MS-4144 for PS/2? I think I did, even gave part specs. For me, if I cannot use native PS/2 mice through my KVM, it is a deal breaker. I've only not modified one cased board because of the rarity - a NexGen 110PF. That board uses the Rio444 adapter. I've also not performed the 1024K mod on it, again because of rarity.

I agree, I see a write up on the Chaintech 486SPM but not one for the MS-4144 specifically, are they pretty much identical for the purpose of the mod?

Chadti99, did you read the first page of that Chaintech 486SPM PS/2 mod? The process is similar to that of the MS-4144, I even provided a rough PDF scan of how I did the mod on the MS-4144 in that Chaintech link. Re: Adding PS/2 mouse components to a Chaintech 486SPM

Chadti99, I decided that your overclocking work deserved some photo instructions for the MS-4144 PS/2 mod. Enjoy! Adding native PS/2 mouse components to your MSI MS-4144 motherboard

feipoa wrote on 2022-04-18, 09:48:

Chadti99, I decided that your overclocking work deserved some photo instructions for the MS-4144 PS/2 mod. Enjoy! Adding native PS/2 mouse components to your MSI MS-4144 motherboard

Most appreciated, I’ll get to work!

every time a 2/3/486 board gets a ps/2 mouse an angel gets its wings

A video proof.

Details in the last section of the original post explaining the upgrade from 180 to 200 MHz on air cooling.

LSD w/16MB only and 5V to the peltier?

Yes, score was achieved with the Luckystar LS-486E rev.D based PC.
Single memory module - LGS 16Mb 60ns EDO.
4V (!) to CPU running at 200MHz (3x66).
There is a 5V Peltier in the rig - playing it safe after burned an ADZ 4V chip if you remember.
Can video proof the result on air cooling if there is any doubt in my words of course. : )
Bus divider 1:2/3.
Tightest BIOS timings.

I don't this is the end of the road.
Feels like 2-1-2 L2 cache timings with no bus divider is possible, but things get super fussy - a narrow overclocking experience.
Can lead to 23 fps in Quake 1 potentially.
We will see.

Congrats pshipkov, fantastic score! Keep pushing the limit!

Reporting in that I was able to perform the PS2 Mouse mod provided by Feipoa on the MSI-4144 and it’s working perfectly.

I’ve also been able to complete a Windows Install and pshipkov’s torture test on the fastest timings.

One thing to note is that sometimes it won’t be stable when booting into Windows but if I simply power cycle the machine it’s fine on the next boot for as long as you have it powered on. Kind of an odd quirk but I’ll take it.

Quite happy with this setup because this board has the socket clips that lets me mount a cooler on the CPU and install into a tower case. Also being a sis chipset allows me to use a Voodoo3.

Looks like you will be moving the 200MHz setup from UUD to MS-4144.
Can you share few more perf numbers with the MS-4144 - wolf3d, doom, pc player bench, gl quake, wintune2 ?
And some 3D rendering perhaps ?
Thanks in advance.

Some quick numbers for the 4144 200Mhz 50x4, 1024k cache, 16MB FPM, Voodoo3, fastest timings. All tests from Dosbench.

110.6 3DBench Fast
84.9 Chris VGA
24.9 Chris SVGA
34.3 PC Player VGA
13.3 PC Player SVGA
1060 Doom Max
22.6 Quake 1.06

136.9 Wolf3D
0:01:28 88sec 3DStudio Chevy

24.8 Turok Benchmark, my specific settings

If I run the GLQuake shortcut on the desktop of the LSD image and then run timedemo 1, I get 35.1fps

Let me know if you’d like me to measure it another way, figured that would be the easiest to match.

What is the official method of running Wolf3D bench?

Also which 3D rendering benchmarks do you have in mind?

If these are already in the LSD image let me know.

Very good numbers.
Thanks for sharing.
Highest PC Player VGA score on a 486 CPU, i think.

Whenever you have the moment:
Wolf3D is in c:\mrk\bench\3d\wolf3d. Run "test.bat".
3D Studio is in c:\a\3dsr3. Run "3ds.exe". Then CLTR+L. Type "chevy". Press Enter. Press "ALT+R". Press Enter.
I saw you running before the LightWave3D test so you know how it goes.

Updated

Thanks.

So, been staring at your numbers for some time.
It looks like MS-4144 with 50MHz bus and 1Mb L2 cache produces basically the same results as LuckyStar LS-486E rev.D running with 256Kb L2 cache and 44Mhz bus (1:2/3 divider for fully stable system). If LSD runs with no bus divider numbers climb further up, as shown in that post linked above, even with 3-1-2 L2 cache timings for the system to boot into DOS.
The one problem with LSD is that the SiS 85C496 chip gets hot and requires active cooling, otherwise maxed out BIOS and 3x66 is flaky. This is fixable but requires additional setup.

pshipkov wrote on 2022-05-08, 23:45:

Thanks. […]
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Thanks.

So, been staring at your numbers for some time.
It looks like MS-4144 with 50MHz bus and 1Mb L2 cache produces basically the same results as LuckyStar LS-486E rev.D running with 256Kb L2 cache and 44Mhz bus (1:2/3 divider for fully stable system). If LSD runs with no bus divider numbers climb further up, as shown in that post linked above, even with 3-1-2 L2 cache timings for the system to boot into DOS.
The one problem with LSD is that the SiS 85C496 chip gets hot and requires active cooling, otherwise maxed out BIOS and 3x66 is flaky. This is fixable but requires additional setup.

It’s possible I don’t have the bus divider set to 1:1 on the MSI, def need someone to confirm my jumper settings.

So 3x66 1:1 is stable on the LSD with active cooling on the chipset? Def interested to try this. I saw some pretty strange behavior.