Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-01-06, 11:02:

As for Win2K, it's basically a lighter version of WinXP. I've used it for gaming in the past, and it worked well enough. But nowadays, I don't see a practical reason to favor it over WinXP, unless you're using a less powerful PC. That said, Win2K does have official Voodoo 3 driver support, which can be nice for testing purposes.

OK. Thought about it sone more, and I think the P4 Cedar Mill system is too fast for Win2k to make sense over XP. So I think will add it to the Geforce 2 and Voodoo 3 builds.

The spread of PCs I think is now looking fairly evenly spread:

DOS 6.22/ Win3.0 (1981-1990) -Psuedo XT / Turbo XT
8088 @4.77 or 10Mhz
640k RAM
Trident VGA Graphics
OPL3 Sound
Pocket 8086 Laptop

DOS 6.22/ Win3.11 (1990-1993) - Psuedo 386/25mhz-486/25mhz
(L2 Cache disabled. SETMUL to add further scaling options)
Pentium MMX – 166Mhz @100Mhz
Baby AT motherboard
8mb EDO RAM
ISA Trident 8900C 512mb
Sound Blaster Pro 2.0
Micro ATX Tower

DOS 7 / Early Win95 (1993-1996)
DirectX 3
(Can slow to the speed of a 486 by disabling caches and using SETMUL)
Pentium MMX – 200-300Mhz (Jan 1997) with Front panel switch to control FSB between 66Mhz and 100Mhz
Gigabyte GA-5AX Super Socket 7
64Mb PC100 SDRAM
S3 Virge 2mb (1996) + Voodoo 1 4mb (Oct 1996)
Soundblaster 16 CT2230 and Diamond Monster Wavetable 2Mb
Horizontal ATX Desktop PC (OPUS)

DOS 7 / Late Win95 (1996-1998)
DirectX 5.0
Pentium II – 300Mhz (May 1997)
64Mb PC100 SDRAM
AGP Riva 128 4mb (April 1997) + Voodoo 2 (Feb 1998)
Sound Blaster 16 CT2290 + Dream Blaster X2 Wavetable
Horizontal Desktop PC (Gateway)

DOS 7 / Early Win98 A3D(1997-1999)
DirectX 6 + Glide 2
Slot 1 Pentium III – 550Mhz (Apr 1998)
128Mb PC100 RAM
TNT 2 (Oct 1999) + Voodoo 2 SLI (Feb 1998)
Aureal Vortex 2
Horizontal ATX Desktop PC (Viglen)

DOS / Late Win98 EAX 3DFX (1998-2000) / Win2k (2000)
DirectX 6.0 + Glide 3
Slot 1 Pentium III @700Mhz (Oct 1999)
Intel 440BX Chipset
256Mb PC100 RAM
Voodoo 3500 (August 1999)
Soundblaster Live (in Windows Only)
Sound Blaster 32 CT3670 (in DOS only)
Micro ATX Tower

DOS / Late Win98 A3D nVidia (1999-2000) / Win2k (2000)
Directx 7.0
Socket 370 Pentium III – 933Mhz (May 2000)
Compaq motherboard. Intel 815 Chipset
256Mb PC133 RAM
Asus GeForce 2 GTS 64MB - V7700TI PURE (April 2000)
Aureal Vortex 2
4.0 Audio Support
Micro ATX Tower

High End Win98 (2000-2003) / Very Early XP (2001-2003)
DirectX 8.0a
Pentium 4 – 3.4Ghz Cedarmill (Jan 2006)
Intel 865 Chipset
512mb DDR RAM
Geforce 4600 (Feb 2002)
Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS
4.0 Audio Support
Micro ATX Tower

Early WinXP (2003-2006)
DirectX 9.0c
Core 2 Duo E8600 3.33Ghz (August 2008)
nVidia nForce 780i Chipset
2Gb DDR RAM
2x Geforce 7900 512Mb in SLI (March 2006)
Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS
4.0 Audio Support
Large Tower ATX Desktop PC

Late WinXP (2006-2010), Windows Vista
DirectX 10.0
4Gb DDR3 RAM
ASUS P8H61-M with i5 3570 @3.8Ghz (April 2012)
Geforce 285 GTX 1024Mb (January 2009)
Auzentech Prelude 7.1 Sound Blaster X-FI
4.0 Audio Support
Large Tower ATX Desktop PC

Other PCs to be hooked up to my standing desk Retro area with 1600x1200 IPS LCD:

Ultimate Win98
Core 2 Duo X6800 @2.93Ghz
Intel 865 Chipset
512mb DDR RAM
Geforce 5900 Ultra
Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS
10k RPM HDD

Ultimate Win XP / Linux Web Browsing
16Gb DDR3 RAM
ASUS P8Z77-M with i7 3770k @3.9Ghz (April 2012)
Geforce GTX 980 Ti 6Gb (June 2015)
Creative Sound Blaster X-FI

Just testing GTX 980 Ti on Z77 motherboard.... its not even breaking a sweat on Crysis at 1600x1200 with 8x AA and 16X AF forced in control panel. All settings to high apart from motion blur, which I hate.

I can barely hear the GPU even with my ear right next to it. The temps aren't even reaching 60C and the highest utilisation I have seen is around 70% in cutscenes. But in game utilisation is lower. Note that I am testing on a testbench currently so not in a cramped case like it later will be.

FPS is mostly well over 100, with some dips into the 90s. Since it does this so easily I am wondering if it makes sense to hook up to my 1440p gaming monitor, or my 4k TV... Not sure how many XP games support 1440p or 4K though.

I could dual boot it with Windows 7, but I am wondering if there is any point. Presumably most games from Windows 7 era will work on Windows 11 on my modern gaming PC...

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2025-01-13, 15:55:

I could dual boot it with Windows 7, but I am wondering if there is any point. Presumably most games from Windows 7 era will work on Windows 11 on my modern gaming PC...

I think I may have mentioned this before, but there are a few edge cases where you want DX10 while still needing EAX. Some examples include BioShock 1&2 and Gears of War.

Also, you get proper USB 3.0 speeds under Win7, which can make a big difference if you're copying multi gigabyte files to that machine.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-01-13, 16:03:

I think I may have mentioned this before, but there are a few edge cases where you want DX10 while still needing EAX. Some examples include BioShock 1&2 and Gears of War.

Using Alchemy you mean? I think that can be made to work in Windows 10/11 according to this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlasterOfficial … r_windows_1011/

But, having said that, I wasn't intending to put a soundcard in my gaming PC. So maybe could make sense then to dual boot this one to Win7.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-01-13, 16:03:

you get proper USB 3.0 speeds under Win7, which can make a big difference if you're copying multi gigabyte files to that machine.

Yes, good point.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2025-01-13, 16:21:

Using Alchemy you mean?

Depends on the game. If it implements EAX via DirectSound, then yeah, ALchemy can be used.

But if a game implements EAX via OpenAL, it will work natively under Win7, if you have a compatible sound card of course (Audigy or X-Fi). I've been adding notes for games which do that on our EAX wiki page.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-01-13, 16:39:

Depends on the game. If it implements EAX via DirectSound, then yeah, ALchemy can be used.

But if a game implements EAX via OpenAL, it will work natively under Win7, if you have a compatible sound card of course (Audigy or X-Fi). I've been adding notes for games which do that on our EAX wiki page.

That's a very useful wiki. Thank you. I shall refer to it. I don't suppose there's a similar list of what games support which directx versions? I couldn't see one.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2025-01-13, 16:54:

I don't suppose there's a similar list of what games support which directx versions? I couldn't see one.

There's something like that on the PC Gaming Wiki: https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_Direct3D_10_games

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-01-13, 17:00:

There's something like that on the PC Gaming Wiki: https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_Direct3D_10_games

Ah. Perfect. Many thanks. You are a fountain of knowledge. Haha.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-01-05, 16:27:

If you do get both the 970 and the 980 Ti, could you compare their fan noise levels? Doesn't have to be a scientific measurement in dB, just your subjective opinion.

Hi. So I have done some tests at 1600x1200 8xAA 16xAF on an open test bench. I tested Crysis and F.E.A.R. 2. Neither game was able to fully load either card.

I placed my Sound meter 30cm from the GPU.

The loudest the GTX 970 got whilst playing was 34db. The 980 Ti couldn't be measured as it was below the 30db lower ceiling of the device.

The 970 was clearly audible. It's temperature could peak near 80C. The 980 Ti didn't go past 62C. I couldn't hear the 980 Ti at all unless my ear was right next to it.

If I put the fans at full speed in MSI afterburner then the 970 was 40db and the 980 Ti was 41db. I guess not surprising the 980 can be louder given that that the 980 Ti has 3 fans vs 2 on the 970. But based on the temps I have seen I think the 980 Ti won't get to those fan speeds unless case airflow is poor.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2025-01-14, 07:32:

The 970 was clearly audible. Its temperature could peak near 80C. The 980 Ti didn't go past 62C. I couldn't hear the 980 Ti at all unless my ear was right next to it.

Interesting, thanks for testing this!

I'll definitively be on the lookout for that MSI 980 Ti model.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-01-14, 08:10:

Interesting, thanks for testing this!

I'll definitively be on the lookout for that MSI 980 Ti model.

No problem. Just bare in mind that it's on an open test bench, and I've not changed any thermal pastes on either card. I have just remembered that the ebay listing for the 980 Ti does mention that the previous owner changed thermal paste (didn't say what paste was used). So, perhaps a best-case scenario for that card. The 970 still has the anti-tamper sticker on the screws, so obviously hasn't been serviced. But I guess, since you have the same card, you are aware of what it's temperature ranges are.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2025-01-14, 09:18:

The 970 still has the anti-tamper sticker on the screws, so obviously hasn't been serviced. But I guess, since you have the same card, you are aware of what its temperature ranges are.

I think my 970 might be in slightly better condition. I got it last year, and the seller did say that he had changed the thermal paste recently. I've played some fairly demanding Win7 games on it as well (e.g. Deus Ex: Mankind Divided) and the fans never got overly loud.

Still, good to hear that the 980 Ti is at least comparable, or probably even better in that regard. This is one of the reasons why I prefer using newer cards for WinXP, as it's unlikely that they will be 100% utilized, and will thus remain quiet most of the time.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-01-14, 09:33:

Still, good to hear that the 980 Ti is at least comparable, or probably even better in that regard. This is one of the reasons why I prefer using newer cards for WinXP, as it's unlikely that they will be 100% utilized, and will thus remain quiet most of the time.

Yeah, for sure. Or going for a bigger card within a generation. My current XP "Ultimate" machine has a 750 Ti low profile. That thing goes to 100% utilisation even at 1024x768 if I crank AA and AF in games like Crysis. It also cooks itself at 85C and makes a lot of noise trying to cool itself down. It is a dual-fan model MSI model. I haven't changed thermal paste on it though, so that may help. I do love this machine though for it's small size. It's not as tall as my PS3, but is about 50% deeper, with a similar thickness.

I'm kinda hesitant to get rid of the slim build, even though the 980 Ti build will basically render it obsolete. It does handle period correct XP games with ease to be honest. Crysis and F.E.A.R. 2 aren't really XP games, even though many people probably played the games on XP originally.