Doornkaat wrote on 2021-04-02, 07:28:

Sphere478 wrote on 2021-04-02, 06:22:

Wtf.. looks like it’s from 1998 but has a pci express bridge chip? What is this thing?

Matrox G450 PCI cards have an AGP PCI to PCI bridge chip.

What is the point of a pci to pci? Why not just eliminate the chip?

Sphere478 wrote on 2021-04-02, 15:58:

What is the point of a pci to pci? Why not just eliminate the chip?

I can only guess the G450 wasn't 5V signalling tolerant so the chip is used to reduce signal voltages on 5V 33MHz slots.
Again, no verified fact, just a guess.

Usually that is solved with buffers (see Voodoo 4/5 PCI for example) and, to my knowledge, G450 PCI has poor compatibility with old PCI revisions and 5v only AT motherboards.

5V signalling doesn't mean the card doesn't require +3.3Vcc present on the slot so that argument can't be used to rule out that's what the chip is for.
The HiNT HB1-SE33 is also 33MHz only, why not use the 66MHz part?
Does ist help with running multiple G450 cards in one machine?

What is your theory for that chip?

Maybe potential problems with various motherboard south bridges.

Here are some I've gotten to work well on my 430TX board (Asus TX97-X):
- GeForce FX 5500 PCI (BFGR55256OCP): This is a true 128-bit FX 5500 card that runs at 290/400. This is the fastest PCI card I've had running under Win98SE with the 45.23 drivers (either install as a 5200 or mod to recognize 5500).
- Voodoo3 3000 PCI: I've had this one running in my 430TX system with a K6-III+ 500 running at 6x83MHz without any issues. It seems to run best with the 3dfx 1.04.00 drivers.
- S3 ViRGE/DX: I've used this card mostly when I wanted to run Win3.11 on my 430TX system. Worked great for what I needed it for with a PCX2 and Voodoo1 for DOS games.

speeddemon wrote on 2021-08-01, 00:17:

Here are some I've gotten to work well on my 430TX board (Asus TX97-X): - GeForce FX 5500 PCI (BFGR55256OCP): This is a true 12 […]
Show full quote

Here are some I've gotten to work well on my 430TX board (Asus TX97-X):
- GeForce FX 5500 PCI (BFGR55256OCP): This is a true 128-bit FX 5500 card that runs at 290/400. This is the fastest card I've had running under Win98SE with the 45.23 drivers (either install as a 5200 or mod to recognize 5500).
- Voodoo3 3000 PCI: I've had this one running in my 430TX system with a K6-III+ 500 running at 6x83MHz without any issues. It seems to run best with the 3dfx 1.04.00 drivers.
- S3 ViRGE/DX: I've used this card mostly when I wanted to run Win3.11 on my 430TX system. Worked great for what I needed it for with a PCX2 and Voodoo1 for DOS games.

I watched that video some time ago and tried to find one of those on the 'Bay for my TXP4, but I had no luck. I did purchase a 5500 that was billed as 128 bit, but on receipt I found it too was only a 64 bit card. Too bad I had already left positive feedback.

Repo Man11 wrote on 2021-08-01, 01:54:

speeddemon wrote on 2021-08-01, 00:17:

Here are some I've gotten to work well on my 430TX board (Asus TX97-X): - GeForce FX 5500 PCI (BFGR55256OCP): This is a true 12 […]
Show full quote

Here are some I've gotten to work well on my 430TX board (Asus TX97-X):
- GeForce FX 5500 PCI (BFGR55256OCP): This is a true 128-bit FX 5500 card that runs at 290/400. This is the fastest card I've had running under Win98SE with the 45.23 drivers (either install as a 5200 or mod to recognize 5500).
- Voodoo3 3000 PCI: I've had this one running in my 430TX system with a K6-III+ 500 running at 6x83MHz without any issues. It seems to run best with the 3dfx 1.04.00 drivers.
- S3 ViRGE/DX: I've used this card mostly when I wanted to run Win3.11 on my 430TX system. Worked great for what I needed it for with a PCX2 and Voodoo1 for DOS games.

I watched that video some time ago and tried to find one of those on the 'Bay for my TXP4, but I had no luck. I did purchase a 5500 that was billed as 128 bit, but on receipt I found it too was only a 64 bit card. Too bad I had already left positive feedback.

If it's any consolation, I have one but it's more of a novelty than being truly useful. Anything new enough to need a GPU with its feature set is better off running on a newer Pentium III or better computer. It is cool that it exists though and it allows me to run some older games with AA/AF/32bpp, but I generally prefer to play those games on my Win98 Pentium 4 system with a FX5950U.

Sphere478 wrote on 2021-03-03, 04:37:

Just a title, not a question per se. I'm formatting this post as a guide after the fact mainly. Though input is sought and appre […]
Show full quote

Just a title, not a question per se. I'm formatting this post as a guide after the fact mainly. Though input is sought and appreciated.
I figure this is useful for those out there trying to decide which way they should go on their builds

here is a list of cards that I and others have gotten to work in 430hx/tx motherboards:

-Radeon 64mb 7000 pci seems to work without issues on windows ME and windows 7 using the catalyst 6.2 driver
-6200 seems to be a surefire always works at post. though has given me many issues with drivers in win9x. also reported to be missing some king of texture tech in win 9x
-x1300 seems to be a surefire always works on post but no win 9x support (that I can find) but I have yet to get the card working properly on the drivers front. epa logo artifacts on bios but not serious
-fx5500 the one I have is possibly a knockoff, the chip says 5200 under the heatsink. it works about 50/50 depending on motherboard you try it in but defaults to vga output in bios which is annoying
-s3 verge gx (old basic pci video card) works but is a very old and slow card
-TNT2 32 meg PCI card with a Asus P55T2P4 -Repoman11
-GeForce 4 MX420 64 meg card with a TXP4 -Repoman11
-Geforce MX 4000 81.98 forceware-reported by douglar
-radeon 7500 seems to work pretty well. One of the fastest options without much issues. Currently this is my top pic from this list because of performance and compatability.
-Matrox Millennium reported working by LunarG only win 95 and 3.1 tested
-Matrox Millennium II reported working by LunarG only win 95 and 3.1 tested
-Number Nine GXE64 Pro (S3 Vision 964) reported working by LunarG only win 95 and 3.1 tested
-Trident TGUI9440 reported working by LunarG only win 95 and 3.1 tested
-ExpertColor S3 Trio64V+ reported working by LunarG only win 95 and 3.1 tested
-Matrox Mystique 220 reported working by LunarG only win 95 and 3.1 tested
-Quadro NVS 280 Repoman11
-GeForce2 MX200 PCI 64MB works just fine with Windows 98SE. Woody72
-matrox g450 guillermoxt
-fire mv 2400 posts, further testing warranted

here is a list of cards with reported compatibility problems bad enough to be considered not working:

-radeon 9250 hangs at post
-8400gs no display on boot (vga not tried)
-rage 128 no display on boot (2 people report)
-gt 610 (and I assume gt520 also) no display on boot (vga not tried)
-cirris logic cl-gd5430 no display on boot
-trident tgui9680-1 no display on boot
-spitfire oti64111 no display on boot
-9800 gt on adapter no display on boot (vga not tried)
-1060 6gb on adapter no display on boot (vga not tried)
-unidentified msi low profile red card possibly geforce on adapter no display on boot (vga not tried)
-X600 on adapter. No video on post, os hangs with two cards installed.

Not tested:
-variations of fx 5500 fx 5200 I think mine is more close to a 5200 as it uses a 5200 labeled chip
-x300/x700 on adapter
-geforce 7000 series on adapter
-radeon 9000
-radeon 9100
-voodoo 5 5500
-voodoo 5 5000
-voodoo 4
-voodoo 3
-voodoo 2
-voodoo banshee
-geforce 2
-XGI Volari V3XT

give me more cards to add to this list, ones not included, and tell if you have tested them and what experience you had with them of particular interest is if they posted and if they worked in win 9x without issues. do not report any results not gotten specifically on a 586 430tx/hx setup.

related posts
ATI Rage 128 Pro Won't Post
looking for x1300 win 9x/ME driver
Best pci 2.1 non sse video card?

hope this helps someone on their build 😀

Sorry to bring back this.
Have you ever found a driver for the 6200 pci to properly work oh 430hx?
I am in XP

Thanks

Mamba wrote on 2023-10-05, 16:25:

Sorry to bring back this. Have you ever found a driver for the 6200 pci to properly work oh 430hx? I am in XP […]
Show full quote

Sphere478 wrote on 2021-03-03, 04:37:

Just a title, not a question per se. I'm formatting this post as a guide after the fact mainly. Though input is sought and appre […]
Show full quote

Just a title, not a question per se. I'm formatting this post as a guide after the fact mainly. Though input is sought and appreciated.
I figure this is useful for those out there trying to decide which way they should go on their builds

here is a list of cards that I and others have gotten to work in 430hx/tx motherboards:

-Radeon 64mb 7000 pci seems to work without issues on windows ME and windows 7 using the catalyst 6.2 driver
-6200 seems to be a surefire always works at post. though has given me many issues with drivers in win9x. also reported to be missing some king of texture tech in win 9x
-x1300 seems to be a surefire always works on post but no win 9x support (that I can find) but I have yet to get the card working properly on the drivers front. epa logo artifacts on bios but not serious
-fx5500 the one I have is possibly a knockoff, the chip says 5200 under the heatsink. it works about 50/50 depending on motherboard you try it in but defaults to vga output in bios which is annoying
-s3 verge gx (old basic pci video card) works but is a very old and slow card
-TNT2 32 meg PCI card with a Asus P55T2P4 -Repoman11
-GeForce 4 MX420 64 meg card with a TXP4 -Repoman11
-Geforce MX 4000 81.98 forceware-reported by douglar
-radeon 7500 seems to work pretty well. One of the fastest options without much issues. Currently this is my top pic from this list because of performance and compatability.
-Matrox Millennium reported working by LunarG only win 95 and 3.1 tested
-Matrox Millennium II reported working by LunarG only win 95 and 3.1 tested
-Number Nine GXE64 Pro (S3 Vision 964) reported working by LunarG only win 95 and 3.1 tested
-Trident TGUI9440 reported working by LunarG only win 95 and 3.1 tested
-ExpertColor S3 Trio64V+ reported working by LunarG only win 95 and 3.1 tested
-Matrox Mystique 220 reported working by LunarG only win 95 and 3.1 tested
-Quadro NVS 280 Repoman11
-GeForce2 MX200 PCI 64MB works just fine with Windows 98SE. Woody72
-matrox g450 guillermoxt
-fire mv 2400 posts, further testing warranted

here is a list of cards with reported compatibility problems bad enough to be considered not working:

-radeon 9250 hangs at post
-8400gs no display on boot (vga not tried)
-rage 128 no display on boot (2 people report)
-gt 610 (and I assume gt520 also) no display on boot (vga not tried)
-cirris logic cl-gd5430 no display on boot
-trident tgui9680-1 no display on boot
-spitfire oti64111 no display on boot
-9800 gt on adapter no display on boot (vga not tried)
-1060 6gb on adapter no display on boot (vga not tried)
-unidentified msi low profile red card possibly geforce on adapter no display on boot (vga not tried)
-X600 on adapter. No video on post, os hangs with two cards installed.

Not tested:
-variations of fx 5500 fx 5200 I think mine is more close to a 5200 as it uses a 5200 labeled chip
-x300/x700 on adapter
-geforce 7000 series on adapter
-radeon 9000
-radeon 9100
-voodoo 5 5500
-voodoo 5 5000
-voodoo 4
-voodoo 3
-voodoo 2
-voodoo banshee
-geforce 2
-XGI Volari V3XT

give me more cards to add to this list, ones not included, and tell if you have tested them and what experience you had with them of particular interest is if they posted and if they worked in win 9x without issues. do not report any results not gotten specifically on a 586 430tx/hx setup.

related posts
ATI Rage 128 Pro Won't Post
looking for x1300 win 9x/ME driver
Best pci 2.1 non sse video card?

hope this helps someone on their build 😀

Sorry to bring back this.
Have you ever found a driver for the 6200 pci to properly work oh 430hx?
I am in XP

Thanks

Too many driver issues with 6200.

Back then I mostly tried it on win xp

Could do more testing on ME but I don’t think 6200 is a very good choice. These days my fail proof go to is 7500 and 9200/9250 they work very well and are the fastest I have gotten to work well

The driver issues may be solvable with a cyrix mII btw

i have a radeon 9250 256mb PCI which is faster than 9200 AGP 128mb version.

there is a couple of revisions of 9250, some of them have 5v>3.3v dc converter onboard, some not.

i have one which is working perfectly fine with my 430FX mobo (pci 2.1 5v)

dm- wrote on 2023-10-06, 04:40:

i have a radeon 9250 256mb PCI which is faster than 9200 AGP 128mb version.

there is a couple of revisions of 9250, some of them have 5v>3.3v dc converter onboard, some not.

i have one which is working perfectly fine with my 430FX mobo (pci 2.1 5v)

Strange…
9250 pci has 64bit ram while 9200 has 128bit…
Maybe uour version is 128bit?
Pictures?
Model?

Found this thread while replying this one.

Common platform:

Asus TXP4, BIOS 0109 (430TX chipset)
64MB SDRAM
CF adapter as HDD
MS-DOS 6.20 + Windows 3.10 or Windows 98 SE

Cards tested:

#1: ExpertColor CP775 (S3 Trio64V2/DX, 86C775), PCI, 2 MB

I don't have a nice photo at this moment but it looks just like this:

LunarG had already tested its predecessor, the Trio64V+ (86C765).

#2: Gainword CARDEXpert SG4 Pro (S3 Savage4 Pro, 86C397), PCI, 16 MB

Worked in DOS, Win31, Win98SE

The PCB was quite different from the AGP version but almost identical to Mirage 397L.

I couldn't remember the exact reason why I bought it; all I knew was that I needed a replacement for the Number Nine 9FX Motion 771 that came with my Dell Dimension (430FX chipset), and it took me a while to find an acceptable PCI card (AGP was already mainstream in year 2000).

Speed wise, Savage4 performed poorly with late 1990 3D games. And despite of being beautiful, not many games supported S3TC. Its best merit was compatibility, which serves retro gaming nowadays really well.

So, I try to get I ask here a question:
I have problem with mine Geforce Fx5200 that I have just bought to have a powerful videocard for my k6-iii+ system.
When I put the Fx card the system doesn't boot. When I change it with my previous card Matrox g450 PCI the system power on just fine.
Could be a problem of voltage?
The motherboard is the ASUS P55T2P4. Maybe a voltage problem?
The geforce FX5200 PCI inserted in a slot1 system works perfectly.

biessea wrote on 2025-02-18, 08:29:

So, I try to get I ask here a question: I have problem with mine Geforce Fx5200 that I have just bought to have a powerful video […]
Show full quote

So, I try to get I ask here a question:
I have problem with mine Geforce Fx5200 that I have just bought to have a powerful videocard for my k6-iii+ system.
When I put the Fx card the system doesn't boot. When I change it with my previous card Matrox g450 PCI the system power on just fine.
Could be a problem of voltage?
The motherboard is the ASUS P55T2P4. Maybe a voltage problem?
The geforce FX5200 PCI inserted in a slot1 system works perfectly.

I assume that the P55T2P4 board does not provide 3.3V to its PCI slots, in which case the card needs to either work with 5V, or have an on-board 5V -> 3.3V voltage regulator (the FX5200 lacks this regulator and relies on the PCI slot to provide 3.3V).
The Matrox either works directly with 5V or has an on-board voltage regulator (my guess would be the latter).

On a personal note, I would not use a GeForce FX card with a K6-3+ system. I know it's a lot cheaper compared to alternatives (such as Voodoo 3 PCI, GeForce 2 MX PCI, etc), but there's a reason why it's cheaper. 😀

bloodem wrote on 2025-02-18, 08:49:

I assume that the P55T2P4 board does not provide 3.3V to its PCI slots, in which case the card needs to either work with 5V, or […]
Show full quote

biessea wrote on 2025-02-18, 08:29:

So, I try to get I ask here a question: I have problem with mine Geforce Fx5200 that I have just bought to have a powerful video […]
Show full quote

So, I try to get I ask here a question:
I have problem with mine Geforce Fx5200 that I have just bought to have a powerful videocard for my k6-iii+ system.
When I put the Fx card the system doesn't boot. When I change it with my previous card Matrox g450 PCI the system power on just fine.
Could be a problem of voltage?
The motherboard is the ASUS P55T2P4. Maybe a voltage problem?
The geforce FX5200 PCI inserted in a slot1 system works perfectly.

I assume that the P55T2P4 board does not provide 3.3V to its PCI slots, in which case the card needs to either work with 5V, or have an on-board 5V -> 3.3V voltage regulator (the FX5200 lacks this regulator and relies on the PCI slot to provide 3.3V).
The Matrox either works directly with 5V or has an on-board voltage regulator (my guess would be the latter).

On a personal note, I would not use a GeForce FX card with a K6-3+ system. I know it's a lot cheaper compared to alternatives (such as Voodoo 3 PCI, GeForce 2 MX PCI, etc), but there's a reason why it's cheaper. 😀

Thank you, so I will re-sell the item. I bought just for that system, I know that was better using a Voodoo3 PCI or better a Voodoo 4 (too expensive).

Anyway the old Asus motherboard only have 5v PCI slots so, I learned a new thing.

I will prompty re sell it so.

My quest for finding a Great PCI videocard for that system continue so.

Not sure if the question is still relevant, but the listed cards in the first reply as tested+working will run like ass in a socket 7 system due to too much driver overhead (geforce2, radeon, tnt2, g450, etc).
UNLESS someone has a K6/3+ on like 550 or 600 mhz. Which the creator of the topic might has, due to the signature of him.

Even the Voodoo3/4/whatever also runs suboptimally in a typical socket7 configuration, which means, it will be much slower than a voodoo2, unless, again, someone has a k6/3+ running at very high clocks, which can drag the voodoo3 driver overhead on its back.

If someone has some random 200 mhz socket7 chip, then which will work properly are the following:
-G200
-Savage4
-Riva 128
-TNT1 (very old drivers only)
-Voodoo2
-Voodoo Rush
-Voodoo 1
-Permedia2
-Rage PRO

Geri wrote on 2025-02-18, 15:04:

Even the Voodoo3/4/whatever also runs suboptimally in a typical socket7 configuration, which means, it will be much slower than a voodoo2, unless, again, someone has a k6/3+ running at very high clocks, which can drag the voodoo3 driver overhead on its back.

Does it actually run "Much" slower or does it just fail to run faster?

Anyone got benchmarks?

Geri wrote on 2025-02-18, 15:04:

Not sure if the question is still relevant, but the listed cards in the first reply as tested+working will run like ass in a socket 7 system due to too much driver overhead (geforce2, radeon, tnt2, g450, etc).
UNLESS someone has a K6/3+ on like 550 or 600 mhz.

I agree with an exception that similar to your 550/600 mhz rule.

If you have more than passing interest in Quake3, the benefit of running Hardware T&L on something like a Geforce2 MX will outweigh the driver overhead.

BinaryDemon wrote on 2025-02-18, 20:06:

If you have more than passing interest in Quake3, the benefit of running Hardware T&L on something like a Geforce2 MX will outweigh the driver overhead.

Only the T, not the L. 😀