ATI chipset isn't the issue its ATI gpu's the range of games he wants to play won't render right on them, its NVIDA or 3dfx really for 9x stuff especially DX3 and Dx5 titles

Ah, I can see it now - in this case, it will be more sensible to look for more suitable hardware. The PCI-E versions of GF 6xxx or 7xxx are not the most suitable, and the FX 5750 or 5950 PCX is rarely available.

Well, I've come across some "decent" deals for a Win98SE build. Or, so I think.

Motherboard Options: (Socket 462) All free shipping and returns. All Tested / Working under Win98SE by seller.

PCChips M863G V5.1 - $49.00
MSI KM2M Combo - $54.00
ECS K7S5A(V3.1) - $62.00

Video Card: PNY Verto GeForce4 64MB DDR MX440 - $29.99 ($11.99 Shipping)

Opinions? 😀

I would get PCChips M863G as more new chipset. However PCChips budged brand which might cause unexpected issues .

I'm not that familiar with S42 chipsets and the pros and cons so more general observations.
How many PCI slots will you need? at least one for your SoundBlaster, onboard network is probably enough but maybe run into trouble if you want a 3dfx or SATA cards as an example.
Retroweb says the ECS board is vulnerable to the cap plague, but can imagine these apples to the others as well?
https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/ecs-k7s5a

chinny22 wrote on 2025-02-24, 01:02:

I'm not that familiar with S42 chipsets and the pros and cons so more general observations. How many PCI slots will you need? at […]
Show full quote

I'm not that familiar with S42 chipsets and the pros and cons so more general observations.
How many PCI slots will you need? at least one for your SoundBlaster, onboard network is probably enough but maybe run into trouble if you want a 3dfx or SATA cards as an example.
Retroweb says the ECS board is vulnerable to the cap plague, but can imagine these apples to the others as well?
https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/ecs-k7s5a

I recap them all anyway. 😀

Only need one PCI for the SB and AGP for video.

That ECS board is the most expensive, and does not come with a CPU. They used that same Retroweb image on their auction, but state it's board only. Though, I don't need one. Going to use the Sempron 2500+ until I find a Athlon 3000+ reasonably priced.

Kinda leaning toward the MSI KM2M. VIA chipset. The PC Chips is a nice board it seems, but yeah, not much experience with SiS in general. All of them have drives on Retroweb.

All three state "100% working condition, all functions tested in Windows 98 SE. The BIOS has been updated to the most recent version", and I like the fact this seller accepts returns, "30 days returns. Seller pays for return shipping.", that's rare.

The deed is done. Wish me luck!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/256825619406

Going to use the Sempron 2500+ to start, then get an Athlon XP 3000+, the KV4D version since it's ever so slightly faster than the KV4E 2100MHz vs 2167 MHz.

GPU is going to be a GeForce 4 MX440 64GB. The "PNY Verto" version I mention above.

Hey , I'd like you wish luck but there is small issue with board you bought. It's support only 266 mhz fsb mean that athlon 3000 or semptron 2500 would work at slower clocks. It possible to overclock motherboard to 166 mhz but it fepends on board itself and bios capabilities. [url=https://www.cpu-upgrade.com/mb-MSI/KM2M ... 6738).html] Here [/ url] cpu supported list on your motherboard.

ciornyi wrote on 2025-02-26, 06:12:

Hey , I'd like you wish luck but there is small issue with board you bought. It's support only 266 mhz fsb mean that athlon 3000 or semptron 2500 would work at slower clocks. It possible to overclock motherboard to 166 mhz but it fepends on board itself and bios capabilities. [url=https://www.cpu-upgrade.com/mb-MSI/KM2M ... 6738).html] Here [/ url] cpu supported list on your motherboard.

I reached out to the seller becasue he listed the board as being both "Athlon XP Sempron Ready" and was curious about the FSB speeds listed for it. He said he tested it using several different processors, including both an XP and Sempron 2500+ (both 333MHz), and said the board does 333MHz no problems. So, we'll see.

Free returns, so if not, no biggie. 😀

The seller contacted me already when they noticed the board I bought and said they misunderstood what board I was asking about.

After just a bit of back and forth, they replaced it with the board he thought I was talking about, an Asus A7V8X-LA. They refunded the $5 difference and Bob's your uncle. 😀

I love it with problems solve themselves! Very nice seller. It's 2AM where he is, not far from me. That's what I call service!

So, this is the board I will be using....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/256793050377

https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/asus-a7v8x-la-hp-oem

Looks good. If you find out GeForce 4 MX 440 isn't enough for some games you can upgrade to non MX version or FX series. But it should be a decent start.

AlexZ wrote on 2025-02-26, 09:10:

Looks good. If you find out GeForce 4 MX 440 isn't enough for some games you can upgrade to non MX version or FX series. But it should be a decent start.

I wont be going beyond 1024x768 in terms of resolution. As for games, a vast majority wont be "high-end" 3D shooters. I was going to put Quake III and System Shock II on it, but have since decided to just keep them on my modern system. Like I did with my DOS build, I'm sticking more with "general compatibility" over top-tier performance.

This build will round out my "retro systems", DOS 6.22, Win95 Mini, and now a Win98SE. 😀

StriderTR wrote on 2025-02-26, 08:00:

The seller contacted me already when they noticed the board I bought and said they misunderstood what board I was asking about. […]
Show full quote

The seller contacted me already when they noticed the board I bought and said they misunderstood what board I was asking about.

After just a bit of back and forth, they replaced it with the board he thought I was talking about, an Asus A7V8X-LA. They refunded the $5 difference and Bob's your uncle. 😀

I love it with problems solve themselves! Very nice seller. It's 2AM where he is, not far from me. That's what I call service!

So, this is the board I will be using....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/256793050377

https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/asus-a7v8x-la-hp-oem

you may have just wasted your money on that one, ive got a HP board from around the same time, its an Asus P4SD-LA with an intel 865 chipset which came from a HP pavillion, the first time i reinstalled windows the chipset drivers refused to install saying it couldnt detect the chipset, it had the stock fx5200 in it and the nvidia drivers also failed to install with the same problem, couldnt detect an nvidia chipset, turned out this was intentional buggery on HPs part due to their own bios, there were different variants of this board sold in other pcs, i think packard bell as well with different onboard features, many other people had the same issue and since asus didnt produce their own version of this board they found the only solution was to flash the bios from a stock asus board with a similar chipset that was somewhat compatible which then "unlocked" the board and allowed the drivers to install, otherwise the board would have been unusable.

you maybe lucky as its an AMD/VIA board, but as its from the same era you might find HP has sabotaged the bios on that board as well.

others are guilty of the same fuckery especially MSI/medion boards with medion bios, for some reason they like to either use bios from a different manufacturer or they remove features or completely disable onboard hardware, i also avoid any manufacturers that dont conform to the ATX standard like dells with their upside down back to front motherboards.🤣

also for GPU if you are looking at low end models like the GF4 mx440, you are better off with an fx 5200 128mb 64bit, as it will be the better choice just avoid the ones with the gimped 166mhz memory, make sure its at least 200mhz. heres a few benchmarks i did comparing an mx440/fx5200/ati 9250.

GF4 MX440 64mb 128bit
Re: 3dmark99 MegaThread
3d mark99 = 12797

GF FX5200 128mb 64bit (200mhz memory)
Re: 3dmark99 MegaThread
3d mark99 = 11712

GF FX5200 (166mhz memory)
Re: 3dmark99 MegaThread
3d mark99 = 10907

Radeon 9250 256mb 128bit
Re: 3dmark99 MegaThread
3d mark99 = 11028

the scores dont really make sense the 256mb 128bit radeon scored lower than the 64mb 128bit mx440? despite the radeon being agp x8 and the mx440 agp x4
the 128mb 64bit fx5200 scored more than the 256mb 128bit radeon both being agp x8

in terms of actual in game performance, i tested hitman contracts which i think is a dx8 game, it was unplayable with the mx440 as its a dx7 card, with the radeon it was running at 60fps on mid-high settings at 800x600, but it was janky also shadows and lighting were just not right, the fx5200 (200mhz memory) the game mostly ran at a stable 30fps sometimes as high as 50fps, the game was smooth at that and shadows and lighting were as they should be, it was perfectly usable and looked great so definitely the better option of the three, also having the dx9 fx5200 you can make use of nglide for voodoo games, despite being a low end gpu it will score double that of a voodoo 3, and if you check the 3dmark99 thread there are a couple of benchmarks of voodoo 5's with cpus more powerful than im using, and the 3d mark scores are either less or on par with the fx5200.

I'm not worried about board issues. This one was fully tested under Win98SE by the seller to ensure all on-board devices worked properly. The BIOS was also updated to the last version released.

He also offers 30-day free returns, so I'm covered if there were to be any issues. 😀

As far as the GPU goes, all of the DX games I want to use are DX7 or under and I won't be pushing the resolutions beyond 1024x768. Also, managed to get one super cheap ($15 shipped, tested and working). If I happen to come across something better in the future, I'll swap it out, but for Win98SE and what I want to do with this system, the MX440 should handle the job adequately and without issue, even though it's a low-end card.

On a side note, I discovered that USPS must be testing some new wicked fast transport technology. That MX440 is really moving!

790 miles in 35 minutes. Kidding. 😜

I have a retro system built around that same HP/Asus motherboard and it works great! You should have zero issues! (See signature)

386DX40 wrote on 2025-02-27, 20:10:

I have a retro system built around that same HP/Asus motherboard and it works great! You should have zero issues! (See signature)

Very nice! I'll hopefully get it up and running this weekend once all the parts arrive. The only thing I need is a nice small cheap case for it. 😀

I've decided to use two SD-IDE adapters for two 128GB drives, one primary, and one for CD images and other large files. I probably wont use a physical CD-ROM drive, even though I have them. Between the MX440 and Sempron 2500+ (for now) it should work good. The Audigy EAX card will stay as I really like that card. I may put 1GB of RAM in it, not sure yet. 512MB is more than enough, but issues don't normally creep up until you hit 1.5GB total. We'll see. I have all that on hand already, so can mess with it.

It's all out for delivery a day early! I hope...

The MX440 seems to be stuck in a wormhole and keeps popping up all over the place, or, it's hopping between parallel universes. Or, it's just a system glitch, but what fun is that!

This is the goofiest tracking I've seen on a package in a long time. 😜

StriderTR wrote on 2025-02-22, 20:15:

Motherboard Options: (Socket 462) All free shipping and returns. All Tested / Working under Win98SE by seller. […]
Show full quote

Motherboard Options: (Socket 462) All free shipping and returns. All Tested / Working under Win98SE by seller.

PCChips M863G V5.1 - $49.00
MSI KM2M Combo - $54.00
ECS K7S5A(V3.1) - $62.00

Video Card: PNY Verto GeForce4 64MB DDR MX440 - $29.99 ($11.99 Shipping)

Opinions? 😀

Reliability-wise, in terms of capacitors, I think I'll (surprisingly) rate the PCchips on top here. It appears to use OST RLX and RLP... which are actually pretty mediocre for reliability. But even these will likely do better long-term of over the brown KZG caps on the MSI board. Otherwise, I would have said put the MSI board on top without a doubt, as it has good Japanese caps everywhere else. It's also a VIA chipset, which can either be a really nice thing for a 98 build or not at all.
The K7S5A is regarded by many as a "classic" s462 board, but I've always hated and seen nothing but trouble from those green G-Luxon caps. Also, depending on which version you got (seems like this is a later one, as it's v3.1) you may get either a really well-behaving board or not at all. In my case, I don't remember which K7S5A I have (possibly and early 1.x), but it's an incredibly picky board - won't accept any of my DDR RAM (tried everything from low capacity PC2100 to high capacity PC3200), and forgot what other bugginess it had. So for reliability, I'd rate that one at the bottom. The only nice thing it has going for it is the universal AGP slot. The other two boards are AGP 3.0 spec, so cannot do AGP 1.0 (3.3V) cards in there.

StriderTR wrote on 2025-02-26, 08:00:

I love it with problems solve themselves! Very nice seller. It's 2AM where he is, not far from me. That's what I call service!

So, this is the board I will be using....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/256793050377

Must be a fellow night-owl retro-PC enthusiast like us, or similar, for all we know. 😉

Also, nice to hear you'll be going with that board. From what I've heard, those are pretty solid.

Fun bit of story regarding that board: I had a buddy in high school who saved lunch money all year long in high school to buy a Radeon 9800 Pro video card. After he did, he used that card in his HP PC, which had exactly that board. He even played and finished Crysis on it, back when that launched!

StriderTR wrote on 2025-02-28, 19:12:

This is the goofiest tracking I've seen on a package in a long time. 😜

You don't say! 🤣

Something similar happened to me last year with an eBay package, except I was the seller. It was an old board for an arcade machine. It kept bouncing between two different depots in FL and lots of package "in transit to next facility" without any additional information. After a week of this crap, I messaged the buyer, apologizing for the delay and showing them the goofines I was seeing on my end. Luckily for me, the buyer wasn't that worried about it, but thanked me anyways for letting him/her know. Then in like 2 days, the package was somehow magically marked as "Delivered". I asked the buyer to verify, and the package did actually arrive - all in once piece too! 🤣
So yeah... USPS can get "tacky" at times. But at least they have the transparency to show it. Nothing like UPS, where I ordered an "express" delivery from them from Digikey, and it actually took longer than it normally would if I had the shipping with just regular USPS ground. No info on the tracking whatsoever.

Well, I got it all, and verified everything works! The alternate MX440 I got for $11 seems good. Won't know for sure until I can play some games.

However ... I won't be going any further until I get a new heatsink. The dinky little piece of junk I have for this socket can't handle the 2500+, let alone anything higher. Idle in BIOS at 67C with MX4 on it. Sadly, I don't seem to have any others on hand.

Currently looking at two of them, only ones with copper I can find.

https://www.amazon.com/Ajigo-MF035-032- ... 04GWO3PG/ and https://www.amazon.com/BigFoot-Networks-Subze … /dp/B00066J018/

Don't want to spend that much, but the pickings are slim for 462/A/370 when looking for copper. Mainly looking at eBay and Amazon. Wish I could find an affordable Zalman.

StriderTR wrote on 2025-03-01, 01:57:

However ... I won't be going any further until I get a new heatsink. The dinky little piece of junk I have for this socket can't handle the 2500+, let alone anything higher. Idle in BIOS at 67C with MX4 on it. Sadly, I don't seem to have any others on hand.

Yeah, that's a standard and OK cooler for socket 370. But I'm not surprised it's not handling the 2500+, as that's a 60W TDP CPU (54W idle, 68W load) - almost twice as much as any P3.

I don't think it's necessary to have a copper bottom to have good temperatures. Aluminum coolers will do too, if they have thick enough base. I remember these were quite popular back in the day:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/326287609084
They weren't stellar for cooling, but could hold the late Bartons around the mid-50's Celsius under load, IIRC.

Alternatively, there's this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/234803482778
I'm not sure how well this one will do, but it does appear to have pretty thick aluminum base. So might yield similar performance to the previous one I linked to above.

All in all, socket 462 CPUs are pretty demanding, given their core is rather small considering the TDP.

If you're not afraid of cobbling something together DIY style (like many people did back in the day 😉 ), a thick copper heat spreader + thermal epoxy (to glue the head spreader onto the CPU) + any large Pentium 4 or full-size s775 heatsink will likely handle that CPU nicely. The tricky part is the mounting.

StriderTR wrote on 2025-03-01, 01:57:

Don't want to spend that much, but the pickings are slim for 462/A/370 when looking for copper.

Heh, who would've thunk these would be in demand again and have such good resale value. 😁