Namrok wrote on Yesterday, 17:41:

the3dfxdude wrote on Yesterday, 16:59:

Living wrote on Yesterday, 12:39:

that part comes when you want help online and find the toxic community that Linux is built around

Linux is not built around toxic online communities. The key to what you are saying is toxic online communities. It's toxic because it's online because there are cowards that wouldn't act this way otherwise because they get away with it online. Just find other people, preferably a friend you know that uses linux and it won't be toxic, and he'll show you things. Then you'll find that linux is just another OS when you remove yourself from toxic communities, getting away from the net a little. I know dozens of people that use linux, everyday, main OS, work, games, etc. They just use it, and just works. And nobody talks about toxic people online and then make the conclusion that linux is toxic.

You know, with the complete collapse of several communities I used to be a part of, I think I'm coming around to the idea that communities need a certain level of "toxicity" to maintain any sort of identity at all. And yeah, it's obnoxious when you ask a stupid question and some Linux nerd berates you for not knowing the shell script to fix it off the top of your head. But then again, that same community erupts in "toxicity" when Linux distros attempt to add telemetry, or drop 32-bit support, or other BS a meeker community might roll over and take in the name of not being "toxic".

Toxic != Having an opinion, explaining one's reasoning, citing facts, etc

Civil people can and do agree to disagree.

Having principles, ethics and a spine is not toxic.

IMHO, toxicity starts when humility and/or respect for others end.

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2025-07-04, 23:37:

Apple CEO Tim Cook said “what good is RAM if you are not using it”.

It's funny to hear that from the company that still puts 8GB of RAM in a lot of their computers (and claims that it's just as good as 16GB of RAM on Windows). I keep hearing about Apple Silicon Macs having high SSD failure rates from virtual memory usage.
[/quote]

It's funny that people seem to repeat the same message forever, even when facts have already changed. 😉

How do you expect Linux to thrive if most "programmers" can't even get their shit working properly on Windows in higher-level languages?

darry wrote on Yesterday, 23:29:

Toxic != Having an opinion, explaining one's reasoning, citing facts, etc […]
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Namrok wrote on Yesterday, 17:41:

You know, with the complete collapse of several communities I used to be a part of, I think I'm coming around to the idea that communities need a certain level of "toxicity" to maintain any sort of identity at all. And yeah, it's obnoxious when you ask a stupid question and some Linux nerd berates you for not knowing the shell script to fix it off the top of your head. But then again, that same community erupts in "toxicity" when Linux distros attempt to add telemetry, or drop 32-bit support, or other BS a meeker community might roll over and take in the name of not being "toxic".

Toxic != Having an opinion, explaining one's reasoning, citing facts, etc

Civil people can and do agree to disagree.

Having principles, ethics and a spine is not toxic.

IMHO, toxicity starts when humility and/or respect for others end.

I basically agree with the both of you. People should be able to give feedback to their chosen vendor even if it sounds harsh. (one example is Microsoft, as with here) Because how else does a provider even know if know one speaks up? It's when the users, start taking sides, with one taking the side of the fanboys, that Microsoft can do nothing wrong, and best thing since sliced bread, and the users, threatening to leave, because they are dropping 32-bit support (or whatever TPM junky thing is required). But to the fanboys, it's always "get with the times". That's when I'm done with that conversation, because when it's users fighting users, it's just a waste of time. Linux does have both happening as well, and deserves feedback as well. But it isn't Linux's fault that a fight breaks out between the vendors and the users, but something just as necessary as when it happens with Microsoft, and the same will happen with Red Hat as that is likely a source people are getting Linux through. But when, online, the fanboys stand up in the way and disrupt the conversations, well... I'd just walk around them. Online forums are probably not really the place to provide feedback to the vendor. I do have to commend the people at vogons are generally pretty nice and don't wade into the weeds over controversies.

The most common linux failures I get involve /etc/fstab. It's still no windows volume management. Take a physical drive out before commenting the relevant volumes to mount? Oh no you can't go to the desktop!!!!