Decivox wrote on 2025-07-28, 15:06:

Ive been a long time lurker and gained a lot of knowledge in the process, so wanted to introduce myself and my build that I comp […]
Show full quote

Ive been a long time lurker and gained a lot of knowledge in the process, so wanted to introduce myself and my build that I completed thanks to what I've learned here, elsewhere, and through some trial and error.

Intro:
Originally I wanted to get a 98 era pre-build from a manufacturer as I like the aesthetic and the period stickers they would throw on them (I love those e-Machines "NEVER OBSOLETE" stickers for example). After finally finding something locally in good shape, a Sony PCV-RX450, I ran in to two issues I hadn't thought about much - heat and noise. Without adding a GPU to it, it was already hot. Airflow is basically non-existent with a limited number of tiny fans, and the fans/PSU fan were loud, which brought me in to another issue, replacement parts. I managed to source a new PSU, but the airflow/heat/noise issues caused me to abandon the plan.

I ended up deciding I would do a build with (mostly) new parts for ease of purchase, efficiency, and thermals.

The Build:
I ended up finding a non-functioning computer in a beige case in great shape, with a decent amount of fan mounting areas, 2 IDE CD drives and a floppy drive. I gutted it, and then after researching, I ordered the parts for my build:

Motherboard - Onda A97S (New)
This was probably the longest part of the search. Finding a new motherboard with IDE, good expand ability, two PS/2 ports, and Windows 98 proved to be quite a challenge. After a lot of time watching marketplace, scouring eBay, and getting to page 150 of AliExpress I found the Onda A97S. It has everything except for a floppy port - I couldn't believe I would be able to use a brand new motherboard!

P.S - For anyone using this board, the Windows 98 chipset drivers are contained within VGA_XP32_070824.zip in the SBDrv folder. I know the archive says XP, but when you run the installer, it says "Windows 98 Driver" right on the splash screen. You can also add it with the .inf file through device manager.

CPU - AMD Athlon II 170u (Used)
I ended up going with the single-core AMD Athlon II 170u as it just sips power at a TDP of 20 watts. Apparently its just a Sempron with a core disabled and you can re-enable it somehow, but seeing as Windows 98 cant make use of it, I never tried.

GPU - Nvidia Quadro FX 1300 (Used)
I was originally looking for an ATI PCI-E card as I heard better things about the drivers, but for some reason they seem to command some decent money. On the other hand, it seems these Quadros were at least somewhat plentiful in workstation pre-builds and are often available at good prices as they are pulled from scrap machines to be resold. The first one I ordered didnt work, but the seller sent me another which did work. I ordered a replacement fan for it as the original was LOUD. They are quite plentiful on Aliexpress and eBay for under $10 under various renditions of "VGA PC Computer Video Card Cooler Cooling Fan Heatsinks For NVIDIA ATI Geforce". After pulling the stock fan off, it was apparent it was overdue for some fresh thermal grease anyways.

Soundcard - Audigy 2 ZS (Used)
This one took a little time to source as well, as a lot of the ones you see locally or online were the OEM versions which are cut down in one way or another, or cheap out (ie no gold) on the ports. I also seen reports of driver issues with the OEM ones so I wanted to stay away. Downloading the step by step driver install PhilsComputerLab made installation a breeze.

RAM - 2x 1GB DDR3 RAM (Used)
With one stick in, I can run the Windows 98 installer, run PATCHMEM, and then install the other stick later. Obviously this much RAM isnt required, but I couldnt find any 512 MB sticks of DDR3, 1 GB per stick was the smallest I could find.

NIC - Linksys LNE100TX (New)
Yes, thats right, I found this new, sealed in box. New old stock for sure. I havent set it up yet, but Id like to create a proxy locally that will let you browse webpages via the wayback machine, so I can check msn.com as I did back in 1999.

HDD - Patriot P210 128 GB (New)
New, cheap, and under the size limit for Windows 98 so I can avoid another patch.

The other remaining parts are a MSI MAG A550BN PSU, and an ARCTIC Freezer 7 X CO cooler as it fit in my case.

Interesting build. I have tried to use Quadro FX 1300 in a build before (on a Pentium D platform). I found that it worked in the popular benchmarks and games. But I think I had compatability issues with others.

What games are you playing on it?

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2025-07-28, 18:17:

Decivox wrote on 2025-07-28, 15:06:

Ive been a long time lurker and gained a lot of knowledge in the process, so wanted to introduce myself and my build that I comp […]
Show full quote

Ive been a long time lurker and gained a lot of knowledge in the process, so wanted to introduce myself and my build that I completed thanks to what I've learned here, elsewhere, and through some trial and error.

Intro:
Originally I wanted to get a 98 era pre-build from a manufacturer as I like the aesthetic and the period stickers they would throw on them (I love those e-Machines "NEVER OBSOLETE" stickers for example). After finally finding something locally in good shape, a Sony PCV-RX450, I ran in to two issues I hadn't thought about much - heat and noise. Without adding a GPU to it, it was already hot. Airflow is basically non-existent with a limited number of tiny fans, and the fans/PSU fan were loud, which brought me in to another issue, replacement parts. I managed to source a new PSU, but the airflow/heat/noise issues caused me to abandon the plan.

I ended up deciding I would do a build with (mostly) new parts for ease of purchase, efficiency, and thermals.

The Build:
I ended up finding a non-functioning computer in a beige case in great shape, with a decent amount of fan mounting areas, 2 IDE CD drives and a floppy drive. I gutted it, and then after researching, I ordered the parts for my build:

Motherboard - Onda A97S (New)
This was probably the longest part of the search. Finding a new motherboard with IDE, good expand ability, two PS/2 ports, and Windows 98 proved to be quite a challenge. After a lot of time watching marketplace, scouring eBay, and getting to page 150 of AliExpress I found the Onda A97S. It has everything except for a floppy port - I couldn't believe I would be able to use a brand new motherboard!

P.S - For anyone using this board, the Windows 98 chipset drivers are contained within VGA_XP32_070824.zip in the SBDrv folder. I know the archive says XP, but when you run the installer, it says "Windows 98 Driver" right on the splash screen. You can also add it with the .inf file through device manager.

CPU - AMD Athlon II 170u (Used)
I ended up going with the single-core AMD Athlon II 170u as it just sips power at a TDP of 20 watts. Apparently its just a Sempron with a core disabled and you can re-enable it somehow, but seeing as Windows 98 cant make use of it, I never tried.

GPU - Nvidia Quadro FX 1300 (Used)
I was originally looking for an ATI PCI-E card as I heard better things about the drivers, but for some reason they seem to command some decent money. On the other hand, it seems these Quadros were at least somewhat plentiful in workstation pre-builds and are often available at good prices as they are pulled from scrap machines to be resold. The first one I ordered didnt work, but the seller sent me another which did work. I ordered a replacement fan for it as the original was LOUD. They are quite plentiful on Aliexpress and eBay for under $10 under various renditions of "VGA PC Computer Video Card Cooler Cooling Fan Heatsinks For NVIDIA ATI Geforce". After pulling the stock fan off, it was apparent it was overdue for some fresh thermal grease anyways.

Soundcard - Audigy 2 ZS (Used)
This one took a little time to source as well, as a lot of the ones you see locally or online were the OEM versions which are cut down in one way or another, or cheap out (ie no gold) on the ports. I also seen reports of driver issues with the OEM ones so I wanted to stay away. Downloading the step by step driver install PhilsComputerLab made installation a breeze.

RAM - 2x 1GB DDR3 RAM (Used)
With one stick in, I can run the Windows 98 installer, run PATCHMEM, and then install the other stick later. Obviously this much RAM isnt required, but I couldnt find any 512 MB sticks of DDR3, 1 GB per stick was the smallest I could find.

NIC - Linksys LNE100TX (New)
Yes, thats right, I found this new, sealed in box. New old stock for sure. I havent set it up yet, but Id like to create a proxy locally that will let you browse webpages via the wayback machine, so I can check msn.com as I did back in 1999.

HDD - Patriot P210 128 GB (New)
New, cheap, and under the size limit for Windows 98 so I can avoid another patch.

The other remaining parts are a MSI MAG A550BN PSU, and an ARCTIC Freezer 7 X CO cooler as it fit in my case.

Interesting build. I have tried to use Quadro FX 1300 in a build before (on a Pentium D platform). I found that it worked in the popular benchmarks and games. But I think I had compatability issues with others.

What games are you playing on it?

I have noticed one issue so far, a lesser known game called Gearhead Garage that I played a lot when I was a kid. It will crash if I try and use hardware acceleration. Ive heard the 45.23 drivers are better than the 56.64 I am using so I wanted to try that, but the 45.23 drivers wont detect my GPU (I am guessing because they dont support PCI-E, the .inf file is called NVAGP and not NVAML like the others) Ive been playing Command and Conquer Red Alert 2, Settlers 3, and the Sims without issue however. 3DMark 01 works without issue too.

I know the ATI cards/drivers are better received for PCI-E compatability with Windows 98. I am looking to pick up an X700/X800 to see if that works better for me.

Decivox wrote on 2025-07-28, 18:25:

I have noticed one issue so far, a lesser known game called Gearhead Garage that I played a lot when I was a kid. It will crash if I try and use hardware acceleration. Ive heard the 45.23 drivers are better than the 56.64 I am using so I wanted to try that, but the 45.23 drivers wont detect my GPU (I am guessing because they dont support PCI-E, the .inf file is called NVAGP and not NVAML like the others) Ive been playing Command and Conquer Red Alert 2, Settlers 3, and the Sims without issue however. 3DMark 01 works without issue too.

You can try to feed Direct3D and OpenGL DLL files from 45.23 to a newer driver. NVDD32.dll and NVOpengl.dll. This potentially can improve compatibility, but may also not work at all due to HSI bridge.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2025-07-28, 19:26:

Decivox wrote on 2025-07-28, 18:25:

I have noticed one issue so far, a lesser known game called Gearhead Garage that I played a lot when I was a kid. It will crash if I try and use hardware acceleration. Ive heard the 45.23 drivers are better than the 56.64 I am using so I wanted to try that, but the 45.23 drivers wont detect my GPU (I am guessing because they dont support PCI-E, the .inf file is called NVAGP and not NVAML like the others) Ive been playing Command and Conquer Red Alert 2, Settlers 3, and the Sims without issue however. 3DMark 01 works without issue too.

You can try to feed Direct3D and OpenGL DLL files from 45.23 to a newer driver. NVDD32.dll and NVOpengl.dll. This potentially can improve compatibility, but may also not work at all due to HSI bridge.

Thanks for the suggestion, instead of crashing now it just gives me an error it cant detect a Direct3d renderer and to use software rendering instead. Ill go back to the regular 56.64 until I grab an ATI card to see how it handles it.

Decivox wrote on 2025-07-28, 20:13:

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2025-07-28, 19:26:

Decivox wrote on 2025-07-28, 18:25:

I have noticed one issue so far, a lesser known game called Gearhead Garage that I played a lot when I was a kid. It will crash if I try and use hardware acceleration. Ive heard the 45.23 drivers are better than the 56.64 I am using so I wanted to try that, but the 45.23 drivers wont detect my GPU (I am guessing because they dont support PCI-E, the .inf file is called NVAGP and not NVAML like the others) Ive been playing Command and Conquer Red Alert 2, Settlers 3, and the Sims without issue however. 3DMark 01 works without issue too.

You can try to feed Direct3D and OpenGL DLL files from 45.23 to a newer driver. NVDD32.dll and NVOpengl.dll. This potentially can improve compatibility, but may also not work at all due to HSI bridge.

Thanks for the suggestion, instead of crashing now it just gives me an error it cant detect a Direct3d renderer and to use software rendering instead. Ill go back to the regular 56.64 until I grab an ATI card to see how it handles it.

What are you getting in 3dmark 2001 with this setup? On intel platforms I was only able to pull 10,000 3dmarks with the Quadro FX1300 in 98. Input lag seemed high with both the Quadro FX 1300 and the PCX 5750.

The only AM3 motherboard with a floppy controller that I know of is the Asrock 980DE3/U3S3.
They are not very common, but they are not very popular either, so they are not usually exorbitantly priced and tend to go unnoticed.
I don't know to what extent Windows 98 can be installed, but I imagine that using the IDE compatibility mode of the SATA ports could work, although it does have official support for XP.
That Onda A97S motherboard is quite interesting.

Dothan Burger wrote on 2025-07-28, 20:33:

Decivox wrote on 2025-07-28, 20:13:

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2025-07-28, 19:26:

You can try to feed Direct3D and OpenGL DLL files from 45.23 to a newer driver. NVDD32.dll and NVOpengl.dll. This potentially can improve compatibility, but may also not work at all due to HSI bridge.

Thanks for the suggestion, instead of crashing now it just gives me an error it cant detect a Direct3d renderer and to use software rendering instead. Ill go back to the regular 56.64 until I grab an ATI card to see how it handles it.

What are you getting in 3dmark 2001 with this setup? On intel platforms I was only able to pull 10,000 3dmarks with the Quadro FX1300 in 98. Input lag seemed high with both the Quadro FX 1300 and the PCX 5750.

So I ran 3DMark 2001 yesterday with the 55.64 driver and got ~9200.

I then decided to install an FPS to test input lag since I hadnt tried one yet so I installed Tribes 2. Loaded it up and got crazy artifacting. Updated to 77.72 and Tribes 2 worked great, and I noticed no input lag. Were you using a USB keyboard and mouse? I am on PS/2 for both.

I re-ran 3DMark 2001 with the 77.72 drivers and get 8650 now. Perhaps I could change to a bit of an earlier driver for better results and still have Tribes 2 work, but right now the GPU isnt holding me back from playing what I want.

Decivox wrote on 2025-07-28, 22:16:

So I ran 3DMark 2001 yesterday with the 55.64 driver and got ~9200. […]
Show full quote

Dothan Burger wrote on 2025-07-28, 20:33:

Decivox wrote on 2025-07-28, 20:13:

Thanks for the suggestion, instead of crashing now it just gives me an error it cant detect a Direct3d renderer and to use software rendering instead. Ill go back to the regular 56.64 until I grab an ATI card to see how it handles it.

What are you getting in 3dmark 2001 with this setup? On intel platforms I was only able to pull 10,000 3dmarks with the Quadro FX1300 in 98. Input lag seemed high with both the Quadro FX 1300 and the PCX 5750.

So I ran 3DMark 2001 yesterday with the 55.64 driver and got ~9200.

I then decided to install an FPS to test input lag since I hadnt tried one yet so I installed Tribes 2. Loaded it up and got crazy artifacting. Updated to 77.72 and Tribes 2 worked great, and I noticed no input lag. Were you using a USB keyboard and mouse? I am on PS/2 for both.

I re-ran 3DMark 2001 with the 77.72 drivers and get 8650 now. Perhaps I could change to a bit of an earlier driver for better results and still have Tribes 2 work, but right now the GPU isnt holding me back from playing what I want.

Yeah, I always use PS2 with 98. One application that I could easily reproduce the lag in was the Chameleon demo, It's hard to make the Chameleon spin as fast with a mouse flick as other systems. And the demo would hitch every color change.

I'm glad the card is working out for you. Though it is surprising that it doesn't support palleted textures, I thought the FX 5900 did.

Dothan Burger wrote on 2025-07-28, 22:50:

Decivox wrote on 2025-07-28, 22:16:

So I ran 3DMark 2001 yesterday with the 55.64 driver and got ~9200. […]
Show full quote

Dothan Burger wrote on 2025-07-28, 20:33:

What are you getting in 3dmark 2001 with this setup? On intel platforms I was only able to pull 10,000 3dmarks with the Quadro FX1300 in 98. Input lag seemed high with both the Quadro FX 1300 and the PCX 5750.

So I ran 3DMark 2001 yesterday with the 55.64 driver and got ~9200.

I then decided to install an FPS to test input lag since I hadnt tried one yet so I installed Tribes 2. Loaded it up and got crazy artifacting. Updated to 77.72 and Tribes 2 worked great, and I noticed no input lag. Were you using a USB keyboard and mouse? I am on PS/2 for both.

I re-ran 3DMark 2001 with the 77.72 drivers and get 8650 now. Perhaps I could change to a bit of an earlier driver for better results and still have Tribes 2 work, but right now the GPU isnt holding me back from playing what I want.

Yeah, I always use PS2 with 98. One application that I could easily reproduce the lag in was the Chameleon demo, It's hard to make the Chameleon spin as fast with a mouse flick as other systems. And the demo would hitch every color change.

I'm glad the card is working out for you. Though it is surprising that it doesn't support palleted textures, I thought the FX 5900 did.

If you send me a link to the demo I can try it out, I am not familiar with it.

I decided to try forcing everyone's favorite driver, 45.23, through the device manager, and although it would install, it would never load. My research indicated that 61.77 and 67.66 perform better than 77.72, so I tried them both. Surprisingly they are the only driver version to support the FX 1300 out of the box - no NVAML edits required.

61.77 I get artifacting again in Tribes 2. Didnt bother with 3DMark.

67.66 Tribes 2 works without issue and my 3DMark 01 score went up to 9832. I dont have time now, but will do more testing and report back.

Pallet textures were dropped in somewhere around Forceware 6x.xx.

Decivox wrote on 2025-07-29, 01:33:

If you send me a link to the demo I can try it out, I am not familiar with it. […]
Show full quote

Dothan Burger wrote on 2025-07-28, 22:50:

Decivox wrote on 2025-07-28, 22:16:

So I ran 3DMark 2001 yesterday with the 55.64 driver and got ~9200.

I then decided to install an FPS to test input lag since I hadnt tried one yet so I installed Tribes 2. Loaded it up and got crazy artifacting. Updated to 77.72 and Tribes 2 worked great, and I noticed no input lag. Were you using a USB keyboard and mouse? I am on PS/2 for both.

I re-ran 3DMark 2001 with the 77.72 drivers and get 8650 now. Perhaps I could change to a bit of an earlier driver for better results and still have Tribes 2 work, but right now the GPU isnt holding me back from playing what I want.

Yeah, I always use PS2 with 98. One application that I could easily reproduce the lag in was the Chameleon demo, It's hard to make the Chameleon spin as fast with a mouse flick as other systems. And the demo would hitch every color change.

I'm glad the card is working out for you. Though it is surprising that it doesn't support palleted textures, I thought the FX 5900 did.

If you send me a link to the demo I can try it out, I am not familiar with it.

I decided to try forcing everyone's favorite driver, 45.23, through the device manager, and although it would install, it would never load. My research indicated that 61.77 and 67.66 perform better than 77.72, so I tried them both. Surprisingly they are the only driver version to support the FX 1300 out of the box - no NVAML edits required.

61.77 I get artifacting again in Tribes 2. Didnt bother with 3DMark.

67.66 Tribes 2 works without issue and my 3DMark 01 score went up to 9832. I dont have time now, but will do more testing and report back.

I tested a little more, 67.66 under 3DMark 00 artifacts pretty bad. So I went to 71.84 which just crashes to desktop with 3DMark 00. I then went full circle, back to 77.72, which results in a lower score (5650) than 3DMark 01 (8650).

I will stay on 77.72 , from reading it seems the lower synthetic scores and FPS highs are made up for in the real world with less stuttering and more consistent FPS.

I am still looking at getting an X700/X800 to get away from these buggy Nvidia drivers though. Its a shame the FX 1300 doesnt work well/at all with drivers earlier than 67.66.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2025-07-28, 17:45:

old school gamer man wrote on 2025-07-28, 15:44:

anther one most seem to forget about is the Biostar K8M800 and that one is supper common.

AM2 version has only 2 PCI slots and realistically only one usable, if decent AGP cooling is required.

hardly any AGP cards use a dual slot cooler... and so much of what would you need on on board that you really don't need the 2 pci slots in the first place. and the on board video is on par with most late 90s cards so a lot of people would not need the agp slot in the first place for a 9x system.

Hoping wrote on 2025-07-28, 21:32:

The only AM3 motherboard with a floppy controller that I know of is the

Ga-ma785gt-ud3h
https://theretroweb.com/motherboard/image/ga- … a2471612568.jpg

shevalier wrote on 2025-07-29, 17:59:

Hoping wrote on 2025-07-28, 21:32:

The only AM3 motherboard with a floppy controller that I know of is the

Ga-ma785gt-ud3h
https://theretroweb.com/motherboard/image/ga- … a2471612568.jpg

Thanks, the problem with the Asrock is that it only has one PCIE x16 and the rest are only 1x, which limits the NVME SSD to 800mbs. I'll keep an eye out to see if I can get one of those motherboards.

Hoping wrote on 2025-07-29, 18:12:

shevalier wrote on 2025-07-29, 17:59:

Hoping wrote on 2025-07-28, 21:32:

The only AM3 motherboard with a floppy controller that I know of is the

Ga-ma785gt-ud3h
https://theretroweb.com/motherboard/image/ga- … a2471612568.jpg

Thanks, the problem with the Asrock is that it only has one PCIE x16 and the rest are only 1x, which limits the NVME SSD to 800mbs. I'll keep an eye out to see if I can get one of those motherboards.

https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/?page=1& … peIds%5B0%5D=13

Hoping wrote on 2025-07-29, 18:12:

shevalier wrote on 2025-07-29, 17:59:

Hoping wrote on 2025-07-28, 21:32:

The only AM3 motherboard with a floppy controller that I know of is the

Ga-ma785gt-ud3h
https://theretroweb.com/motherboard/image/ga- … a2471612568.jpg

Thanks, the problem with the Asrock is that it only has one PCIE x16 and the rest are only 1x, which limits the NVME SSD to 800mbs. I'll keep an eye out to see if I can get one of those motherboards.

500
Pci-e version 2.0 x1
This gigabyte has 4x slot=2 000
But is award bios 6.00, need be modified for nvme support

old school gamer man wrote on 2025-07-29, 19:11:

Hoping wrote on 2025-07-29, 18:12:

shevalier wrote on 2025-07-29, 17:59:

Ga-ma785gt-ud3h
https://theretroweb.com/motherboard/image/ga- … a2471612568.jpg

Thanks, the problem with the Asrock is that it only has one PCIE x16 and the rest are only 1x, which limits the NVME SSD to 800mbs. I'll keep an eye out to see if I can get one of those motherboards.

https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/?page=1& … peIds%5B0%5D=13

So AM3 motherboards with IDE and floppy controllers are not that rare. In my case, I would only limit the options to AMI BIOS because it is easier to modify and better documented than Award.
And, of course, avoid Nvidia chipsets as they belong to the Bumpgate era.
Ironically, the first AM3 motherboard I had was a GA-770----, I don't remember the exact model, but I do remember using the floppy drive with it.
Memory fades with time.
It would be interesting to know which motherboards on that list would have better support for Win9x for the experiment the OP is doing.

Also consider VRM and 8 pin CPU connector. Some AM3 boards have only 4 pin connector.

My AM3 board Gigabyte GA-870A-UD3 v2.1 has 8+2 phase VRM. It lacks VRM heatsink but that can be salvaged from another dead modern board and modified. It has holes for it in the pcb. It also has FDD and ATA IDE connector. It was one of the reasons I bought it. It is also a quite common board, it is cheap and you can have a spare. I don't think these old boards supported NVME SSD. That came with AM3+.

My AM2+ board is Gigabyte GA-MA770-UD3 v2.0. There is also AM3 version of it, but GA-870 is a better choice for AM3. It has 8 pin CPU connector.

ASRock 970 Pro3 R2.0 motherboard, this also should work with Windows 98 well and its AM3+ motherboard. 😀
AMD Sempron 140, 145, 150 are easier to find and they are 1 core cpus + possible to open second core from bios.

Unlocking cores got disabled in later bioses. Do not rely on it.