Anyone have i740 test for the table fog and palletized stuff?

Cheers,

pentiumspeed wrote on 2026-06-08, 23:12:

Anyone have i740 test for the table fog and palletized stuff?

Cheers,

Re: Hot take: Intel 740 is a decent retro card

ATi Rage3 with NFS3 and FOG, its not true, as i used dgVoodoo and -Voodoo2 command, it shows it can, similar case with OpenGL paletted, also it can over GLDirect. Performance bit lower than original, 512x384 and 640x480 playable, 800x600 and 1024x768 probably not so,but it runs higher resolutions also. NFS2SE fog also works, Need for Speed:High Stakes next. Celeron MMX and ATi RageXL AGP.

Win98 and no registry tweaks.

Rage Pro, Rage XL, Rage 128 Pro are not the only ATi cards:

8-bit palleted textures should also work with Rage2 cards in D3D and CIF, just games speed can be lower on them.
I think all ATi cards between Rage2 up to Rage128 Pro and also ATi Rage Fury Maxx can use them at Direct3D level.
First ATi 3D Rage card did not have palleted textures, can test Rage 2 if needed to verify it and maybe Rage 128. 😀

marxveix wrote on 2026-08-12, 13:14:

First ATi 3D Rage card did not have palleted textures, can test Rage 2 if needed to verify it and maybe Rage 128. 😀

I looked at the "Windows 95 Programmer’s Guide" from this page and it does indicate that Rage II supports paletted textures.

If you have the card, try the Final Fantasy 8 demo on it. The config utility should detect paletted textures, if they are available.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2026-08-12, 13:29:

marxveix wrote on 2026-08-12, 13:14:

First ATi 3D Rage card did not have palleted textures, can test Rage 2 if needed to verify it and maybe Rage 128. 😀

I looked at the "Windows 95 Programmer’s Guide" from this page and it does indicate that Rage II supports paletted textures.

If you have the card, try the Final Fantasy 8 demo on it. The config utility should detect paletted textures, if they are available.

There is no issue detecting it from ff config from Rage2, Rage2+,Rage2c. Ingame is another case, there its not 100% correct at least the menu and it can be driver issue.

marxveix wrote on 2026-08-12, 16:07:

There is no issue detecting it from ff config from Rage2, Rage2+,Rage2c. Ingame is another case, there its not 100% correct at least the menu and it can be driver issue.

Interesting. Let me know if a different driver changes things.

Based on the current situation, I could only mark the Rage II paletted texture support as partial/inaccurate.

marxveix wrote on 2026-08-12, 16:07:

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2026-08-12, 13:29:

marxveix wrote on 2026-08-12, 13:14:

First ATi 3D Rage card did not have palleted textures, can test Rage 2 if needed to verify it and maybe Rage 128. 😀

I looked at the "Windows 95 Programmer’s Guide" from this page and it does indicate that Rage II supports paletted textures.

If you have the card, try the Final Fantasy 8 demo on it. The config utility should detect paletted textures, if they are available.

There is no issue detecting it from ff config from Rage2, Rage2+,Rage2c. Ingame is another case, there its not 100% correct at least the menu and it can be driver issue.

I think that's one of the known bad drivers. I would recommend 4.11.2560 which can be found here: https://gona.mactar.hu/ATI3DCIF/drivers/w82560en.zip
Resources:
https://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_3D_CIF/ : More info on compatibility, focused on ATI 3D CIF but Direct3D compatibility follows from my personal testing
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hmx-K … dit?usp=sharing : Another resource shared with me by some members on The Retro Web. Haven't verified everything but seems correct from my experience.

TheMLGladiator wrote on 2026-08-12, 20:57:

I think that's one of the known bad drivers. I would recommend 4.11.2560 which can be found here: https://gona.mactar.hu/ATI3DCI […]
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marxveix wrote on 2026-08-12, 16:07:

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2026-08-12, 13:29:

I looked at the "Windows 95 Programmer’s Guide" from this page and it does indicate that Rage II supports paletted textures.

If you have the card, try the Final Fantasy 8 demo on it. The config utility should detect paletted textures, if they are available.

There is no issue detecting it from ff config from Rage2, Rage2+,Rage2c. Ingame is another case, there its not 100% correct at least the menu and it can be driver issue.

I think that's one of the known bad drivers. I would recommend 4.11.2560 which can be found here: https://gona.mactar.hu/ATI3DCIF/drivers/w82560en.zip
Resources:
https://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_3D_CIF/ : More info on compatibility, focused on ATI 3D CIF but Direct3D compatibility follows from my personal testing
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hmx-K … dit?usp=sharing : Another resource shared with me by some members on The Retro Web. Haven't verified everything but seems correct from my experience.

Thank you for the table (spreadsheet). If anyone has older 4.03.2621 atid3d.dll from 13.05.97, please share, thanks!

Its question about atid3d.dll file if any Rage2 will work, already tested with some others, so far the same. I will try with Driver 1999 game also (maybe).
ATi Rage Pro / Rage XL AGP, all ok with that same driver, its my driver. For me its the best for Rage3 and it works for Rage2/3 D3D/CIF, cant be that bad. 😀

4.11.2611 drv is taken form 5.40.0/5.40.1 driver base and its files are from 5.40.0 up to 5.40.2 and some are from 5.3x, some files modified and newer.
Maybe error on that 4.12.2111 line, if you have 4.12.2111 driver, share it. https://disk.yandex.ru/d/eV600jDAliJ_3w/Win9x … 64_Rage_PRO?w=1

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2026-08-12, 13:29:

marxveix wrote on 2026-08-12, 13:14:

First ATi 3D Rage card did not have palleted textures, can test Rage 2 if needed to verify it and maybe Rage 128. 😀

I looked at the "Windows 95 Programmer’s Guide" from this page and it does indicate that Rage II supports paletted textures.

Rage2 is not supported by the game if i look readme at ff7 and ff8

Some ATi Rage II info about about paletted textures, but here its from BRender.
Re: ATi RagePro drivers and software

I was testing different Matrox cards today and noticed that both fog table (Thief) and paletted textures works (FF8) for the Matrox G200. This was surprising, because paletted textures is broken on the later G400-G550 in FF8. It doesn't require enabling a flag in Power strip. Actually, if you do enable it in power strip, FF8 breaks completely. Paletted textures works out of the box, unlike with the G400.

Other things I noticed was a lack of multitexturing (Unreal) and poor UI rendering in Incoming.

Kahenraz wrote on 2026-09-11, 01:04:

I was testing different Matrox cards today and noticed that both fog table (Thief) and paletted textures works (FF8) for the Matrox G200. This was surprising, because paletted textures is broken on the later G400-G550 in FF8. It doesn't require enabling a flag in Power strip.

Cheers! If you can post the relevant screenshots from FF8 and Thief 2, I will add this info to the wiki.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-11-26, 12:20:

Found another game which uses paletted textures: GT Interactive's Driver from 1999. […]
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Found another game which uses paletted textures: GT Interactive's Driver from 1999.

Graphics cards tested:

• 3DFX Voodoo3 2000, using 3DFX reference drivers version 1.07.00
• Nvidia GeForce FX 5900XT using Nvidia reference drivers version 45.23
• ATi Radeon 9250 using ATi Catalyst reference drivers version 6.2

Games tested:

• Driver - retail CD version + official patch version 2.1

Driver configuration utility

The attachment Driver_Config.jpg is no longer available

As expected, paletted texture support is detected on the Voodoo3 and the GeForce FX, while the checkbox remains greyed out and unselectable for the ATi Radeon card.

Driver Cross Town Checkpoint: Los Angeles 2

The attachment Driver_Checkpoint.jpg is no longer available

Among other things, Driver uses paletted textures for the neon signs in the city of Los Angeles. This is immediately visible if you start the Cross Town Checkpoint: Los Angeles 2. On the ATi card, the neon signs are completely static. In comparison, on both the Voodoo3 and GeForce FX the neon signs are animated using color cycling. This is much more apparent in motion, so please refer to this excellent YouTube video posted by @Rendar.

EDIT - added new info provided by Rendar.

Do you have a save file for that mission?

eddman wrote on 2026-11-02, 18:33:

Do you have a save file for that mission?

Well, it's been four years since I tested that, so my memory is a bit fuzzy, but I think I had to activate cheats to reach that part of the game. I don't believe I had a save either, as that's probably one of the later missions.

Unfortunately, I can't really check right now. I had to move a few months back, so all of my retro hardware is currently sitting in storage, save for my WinXP system. Not sure when I'll be able to set up the rest of my retro rigs, since I don't have a lot of free space at the moment.

What about the Metal Gear Solid?

quigonhu wrote on Today, 06:53:

What about the Metal Gear Solid?

There are reports from 2006 which indicate that Metal Gear Solid requires palleted texture support in order to enable 3D acceleration. I haven't tested that extensively myself.

EDIT - while I don't currently have access to my Win9x retro rigs, here's the error message that Metal Gear Solid gives me when I try to run it under WinXP on a GTX 970:

This error message is pretty vague, and it doesn't specifically state that paletted textures are needed. There is no mention of paletted textures in the game's readme file either. And later in the thread that I linked to, some people say they were able to run the game with 3D acceleration on Radeon cards, and those of course don't support paletted textures. So the situation remains unclear without more detailed testing.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on Today, 07:46:

There are reports from 2006 which indicate that Metal Gear Solid requires palleted texture support in order to enable 3D acceler […]
Show full quote

quigonhu wrote on Today, 06:53:

What about the Metal Gear Solid?

There are reports from 2006 which indicate that Metal Gear Solid requires palleted texture support in order to enable 3D acceleration. I haven't tested that extensively myself.

EDIT - while I don't currently have access to my Win9x retro rigs, here's the error message that Metal Gear Solid gives me when I try to run it under WinXP on a GTX 970:

The attachment MGS1_Error.jpg is no longer available

This error message is pretty vague, and it doesn't specifically state that paletted textures are needed. There is no mention of paletted textures in the game's readme file either. And later in the thread that I linked to, some people say they were able to run the game with 3D acceleration on Radeon cards, and those of course don't support paletted textures. So the situation remains unclear without more detailed testing.

MGS works pretty fine on both my AMD and Nvidia systems, but it is Win11 so maybe the driver has enough optimisations to make the game run.

quigonhu wrote on Today, 06:53:

What about the Metal Gear Solid?

This game should have paletted textures, i have mentioned it also.
Re: Table Fog & 8-bit Paletted Textures

Original 1998 Metal Gear Solid on the Sony PlayStation extensively used 4-bit paletted textures (16-color palettes) to save graphics memory and optimize rendering. Metal Gear Solid engine was modified to output 8-bit paletted textures (256 colors) to talk with PC graphics hardware. While the actual internal artwork and character models remained unchanged from their original 4-bit (16-color) PlayStation roots, the 2000 PC port rendered them and required an 8-bit pipeline.

Early PC graphics cards did not support the PlayStation's native 4-bit texture formats. To make the game work on Windows, the developers wrapped the texture data so that the PC engine expected an 8-bit paletted texture format (RGB PAL8). Because it relied specifically on PAL8 texture support, the port became famous for breaking on newer graphics cards. As NVIDIA (GeForce 6 series and later) and ATI/AMD phased out native hardware support for 8-bit paletted textures, Metal Gear Solid would refuse to run in hardware acceleration mode, forcing players into a glitchy software rendering mode. Even though the format container was expanded to 8-bit (which can hold 256 colors), the actual visual assets weren't redrawn. The textures were simply 4-bit data up-converted to pass through the PC’s 8-bit paletted. Modern releases like GOG version use wrappers like dgVoodoo 2 or custom Direct3D fixes to fake 8-bit palette support on modern graphics cards so the game runs smoothly.

marxveix wrote on Today, 10:22:

This game should have paletted textures, i have mentioned it also.

At this time, there isn't enough evidence to support that claim. Especially with reports such as this one where the game apparently worked fine with 3D acceleration on a Radeon 9800 Pro card.

If someone can prove that via testing on real hardware, I'll happily add this game to the wiki. For example, I suggest testing the game on an Nvidia TNT2 (doesn't have paletted texture support) and a Voodoo 3 (has palleted texture support) using period correct drivers to see if there's a difference. Until then, I'm thinking it's more likely that MGS was just poorly coded, as was the case with most console ports from that time.

marxveix wrote on Today, 10:22:

Original 1998 Metal Gear Solid on the Sony PlayStation extensively used 4-bit paletted textures (16-color palettes) to save graphics memory and optimize rendering. Metal Gear Solid engine was modified to output 8-bit paletted textures (256 colors) to talk with PC graphics hardware. While the actual internal artwork and character models remained unchanged from their original 4-bit (16-color) PlayStation roots, the 2000 PC port rendered them and required an 8-bit pipeline.

That sounds like AI slop. Unless you have some proper sources to back it up.

I think it's just a weird port. I remember having difficulty running it some years down the line on my GeForce FX GPU circa 2004-2005 and especially on my 7600 GS a bit later.

System requirements on the box merely call for a 4MB 3D card if you want to run it with a hardware renderer. The readme file is not very helpful, but you can see that while they outright list issues with several accelerators of the era, it seems to run fine even on the likes of Riva 128, Matrox G100, Verite 2100/2200, even Virge DX/GX. I'm uploading it here for posterity.