squareguy wrote:

I never heard of the VIA C3 CPU until recently and I want to hear more.

j^aws submitted benchmark results to my cachebench database:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uKhCI … #gid=1720967797
There's a few different speeds (1.2Ghz, 1Ghz, and 200Mhz) with and without L1.

My mini review of Ezra-T and Nehemiah is in the SetMul topic.

More about the difference between Ezra / Ezra-T here.

The speed range flexibility you can get out of a good Ezra-T and/or Nehemiah system is impressive. I think it is on 1st place in that regard.

@clueless1: That table needs updating; it mentions Ezra-T having no L2 cache, but it does. And the onboard C&T 69000 VGA is slow.

@squareguy: I posted this Speedsys table highlighting how smoothly the Ezra-T scales from around 9 to 632:

The above is on a 440BX and S370. This is smoother than SS7 and K6-III+... It responds significantly with SetMul and ICD, giving this CPU an extra parameter for speed sensitivity. The main difference with Ezra and Ezra-T is that Ezra-T has a larger speed range with its 16x multi instead of 12x multi.

These CPUs don't have issues with Ultima 7 renabling L1 cache - suffered by Pentiums and K6s on SS7. This is due to ICD usage with SetMul.

FSBs can be changed In BIOS easily with more modern boards compared to SS7, and can be done on the fly with SMB DOS tool and a compatible clock generator. Overall, a more flexible platform than SS7.

I've got a few more Ezra-T builds in mind, so I can post more benches for those in the near future...

VIA bought out Cyrix, and their CPUs started with the early C3 Joshua/Samuel at around 400 - 500 MHz.

Ezra are around 800 to 933 MHz, so are all more powerful than the fastest K6-2+ and K6-III+ chips.

Ezra-T, AFAICT, were in the range 800 - 950 MHz, not sure how they differ from Ezra chips.

j^aws wrote:

@clueless1: That table needs updating; it mentions Ezra-T having no L2 cache, but it does. And the onboard C&T 69000 VGA is slow.

Would you do the honors of updating it when you have time? Feel free to add other variables, such as setmul switches, and just note in the Comments column. Then I'll create a tab for the cpu to highlight its results.

^^ Updated - didn't realise the spreadsheet was still editable.

I'll see if I can add some benches in the future with the Ezra-T overclocked beyond 1200MHz. It's stable at 1300MHz, and 1400MHz when 3DNow! isn't being used. I've only managed this using a slocket and overvolting slightly on a Slot 1 board.

debs3759 wrote:

Ezra are around 800 to 933 MHz, so are all more powerful than the fastest K6-2+ and K6-III+ chips.

Uhm - no. The FPU in VIA C3 chips sucks big time. In most games my 800MHz C3 a bit slower then my K6-3 at 500MHz. It's true that VIA CPUs downclock really well, but performance-wise the K6-3 eats it for breakfast clock per clock. Some games don't like the C3 at all - Homeworld for example. It starts out fine, but in big battles with lots of ships and particles it will choke worse then my K6 does 😜

I'd love to try the 1200MHz VIA chip. It should behave like a 600-650MHz P3 witch would actually be an upgrade over the K6-3. The bad part about C3 chips is that they're pretty rare - as rare as K6-III chips in my area - but as far as I know they are supported by most socket 370 mainboards, witch unlike decent super 7 boards are really easy to find and cheap.

^^ Yeah, clock for clock, it doesn't compare.This CPU is more like a 486 on steroids. I would only use it for early 3D games - likewise for the K6s. There are better platforms for 3D. I should do some 3D benches sometime.

kanecvr wrote:

I'd love to try the 1200MHz VIA chip. It should behave like a 600-650MHz P3 witch would actually be an upgrade over the K6-3.

You should differentiate between VIA C3 Ezra-T 1200MHz versus VIA C3 Nehemiah 1200MHz. Nehemiah core is twice as fast in 3D benchmarks, that one should equate the P3 650MHz (or maybe 700?). So it is twice as fast per clock there. But you lose a lot of the 486 emulation speeds with the Nehemiah.

That is some very interesting information that I will go over much more closely later tonight.

How do you tell the difference between the C3 1200MHz Ezra-T and Nehemiah?

Thanks all!!!

The VIA C3 chips were designed to operate the FPU at 1/2 speed. It is in no way a replacement for a fast P3/P4/Athlon machine.

kanecvr: Homeworld really benefits from a faster machine. Use a 1ghz CPU and GF4/Radeon x8xx GPU, max the detail settings, and enjoy! It's the only way to make captured 60+ ion cannon frigates playable in the last levels.

gdjacobs wrote:

The VIA C3 chips were designed to operate the FPU at 1/2 speed. It is in no way a replacement for a fast P3/P4/Athlon machine.

kanecvr: Homeworld really benefits from a faster machine. Use a 1ghz CPU and GF4/Radeon x8xx GPU, max the detail settings, and enjoy! It's the only way to make captured 60+ ion cannon frigates playable in the last levels.

Yeah, I know, but I sometimes run Homeworld on the K6 for old times sake since I originally played it on a similar machine back in the day. I'd say the minimum requirement for smooth HW gameplay is a 750MHz P3/Athlon/Duron with 256MB of ram.

squareguy wrote:

How do you tell the difference between the C3 1200MHz Ezra-T and Nehemiah?

A picture showing both types can be found here.

gerwin wrote:

squareguy wrote:

How do you tell the difference between the C3 1200MHz Ezra-T and Nehemiah?

A picture showing both types can be found here.

Just a FYI, I have both an Ezra-T and Nehemiah in the same package shown in the photo. These CPUs are best identified by both voltage rating and CPU package.

If you can see the underside of the CPU package, the model number provides the information you need.

From this resource:
http://www.cpu-world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18645

the first 2 characters are plant or production-line code A3 A2 AF AG […]
Show full quote

the first 2 characters are plant or production-line code
A3
A2
AF
AG

next 2 characters are core family
00 >> Samuel
20 >> Samuel
40 >> Samuel2
44 >> still need to confirm but guessing mobile Samuel2
50 >> Ezra & Ezra-T
60 >> Nehemiah

So Ax50yyy is an Ezra chip while Ax60yyy is a Nehemiah. I found it very difficult to differentiate the various models otherwise. Complicating matters, there's more combinations in the wild than documented on Wikipedia, and VIA doesn't have this sort of info on their website.

^^ The C3s I have break the above rules. For example:

Ax60xxx is also an Ezra-T and not only Nehemiah.

As mentioned above, the CPU package and voltage is a good indicator for an Ezra-T. However, since then, I have found an Ezra-T engineering sample that breaks the above rule (it has a slightly different package and lower voltage).

There seem to be many combinations out there...

They really seemed to try to make this a pain, didn't they?

^^ Yeah, I know! A general rule of thumb is this:

1.4v = Ezra-T
1.35v = Ezra (or Ezra-T ES)
1.45v = Nehemiah

Any examples of Ax50yyy printed on a Nehemiah?