VOGONS


First post, by Jed118

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So, in a bid to create the fastest "386" (short of an IBM 386SLC, for now), I have just acquired a TI 486 SXL-40 off eBay for under $30. This is the one with 8 Kb cache. I also have a DLC-40, and a couple co processors (a Cyrix, sometimes ID'd as a C&T, and an IIT).

I decided to put them through the wringer on my 386 generic OPTi ISA board (from which I had to unsolder the 386 DX-40 CPU before I could get it to POST with any other CPU installed, including another 386 DX-40 CPU...). I do not know anything about this board except that, like my manual-unobtanium EISA board in another thread, there doesn't seem to be much out there about it. BIOS signature is 40-0100-001123-00101111-060692-opwbsk-f.

The tests were done on the same board using the same boot sequence. No alterations were made in BIOS - L1 and L2 cache enabled. Software was run from an internal IDE flash drive. The system has 16 Mb RAM installed, 256k L2, 1Mb TSENG-4000 ISA video card. I wanted to throw on a 386 DX-40 but it was getting late. I can always add that info later if there's enough interest, but I presume the values will be very low.

I did not run any video benchmarks, as I was interested in the raw performance of these combinations of CPU/FPUs

Hardware:
CPU
- Cx486DLC-40GP
- TI 486 SXL-40
FPU
- CX-83D87-40-GP (seen as C&T 38700)
- IIT 4C87DLC-40

Motherboard - Generic OPTI AT ISA 386 40-0100-001123-00101111-060692-opwbsk-f

*with any processor / co processor installed, speedsys sees it as a DLC @ 13 MHz. Only when each CPU is inserted separately does it display the correct speed. I have pictures of this event using all combinations. Performance seems to suffer when any FPU is present with any CPU using the speedsys benchmark. This is why CPU solo tests were also done at the bottom of the page. The results are strange.

**NSSI saw the IIT co processor at 38 MHz.

Software versions
- Speedsys 4.75
- NSSI 0.60.45
- Syschk 2.41
- PC-CONFIG V7.31
- Sysinfo 8.0

___________________________RESULTS__________________

TI + Cyrix co pro

Speedsys - 10.14
NSSI - 19044 Dhrys/s (just above an Intel 486 DX 33)
5564 KWhets/s
SysChk - Throughput 104.65 MHz (20392 Char/sec)
PC-Config - (IBM-PC speed compare) 4500%
Dhry/KWhet - 16800, 2192
Sysinfo - 65.5 (computing index, around an Intel 486 DX 33)

TI + IIT co pro

Speedsys - 8.9
NSSI - 18949 Dhrys/s (between an i486DX-33 and Am486DX-40)
5311 KWhets/s
SysChk - Throughput 104.65 MHz (20392 Char/sec)
PC-Config - (IBM-PC speed compare) 4500%
Dhry/KWhet - 16800, 2012
Sysinfo - 65.6 (computing index, around an Intel 486 DX 33)

Cyrix DLC + Cyrix co pro

Speedsys - 10.14
NSSI - 16901 Dhrys/s (just below an Intel 486 DX 33)
5557 KWhets/s
SysChk - Throughput 99.05 MHz (19227 Char/sec)
PC-Config - (IBM-PC speed compare) 4600%
Dhry/KWhet - 14400, 2170
Sysinfo - 65.5 (computing index, around an Intel 486 DX 33)

Cyrix DLC + IIT co pro

Speedsys - 8.9
NSSI - 16901 Dhrys/s (just below an Intel 486 DX 33)
5296 KWhets/s
SysChk - Throughput 99.05 MHz (19387 Char/sec)
PC-Config - (IBM-PC speed compare) 4600%
Dhry/KWhet - 14400, 1990
Sysinfo - 65.5 (computing index, around an Intel 486 DX 33)

TI only

NSSI - 19044 Dhrys/s (beween an i486DX-33 and Am486DX-40)
Speedsys 20.7

Cyrix only

NSSI - 16901 Dhrys/s (pretty much on par with an i486 DX-33)
Speedsys 20.7

It seems the best combo is the TI SLC and the Cyrix FPU. I seem to recall reading as a kid in the 90s that Cyrix did in fact make very good FPUs.

Does anyone else know if there was a better 40MHz 80387 based FPU? I wonder if the 38 MHz IIT chip would be just as good or better than a Cyrix if two more MHz were added (if that's even being reported properly). It would be interesting to see how an i387 fares, but the fastest one I have, or in existence, is a 33MHz version. There's almost no point to checking it out.

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Reply 1 of 4, by jesolo

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Your motherboard was manufactured by Magtron Technology Co (based on the BIOS ID string).

The results are more or less what I expected and what other users on the forum has also found.
Overall, you'll notice that there isn't a vast speed improvement over the standard Cyrix DLC CPU (since the TI CPU is actually a Cyrix DLC CPU but, with just 8K of L1 cache).

It would be interesting to see how each CPU compares on the Doom 1 Timedemo 3 benchmark but, with an ET4000AX ISA card, I suspect that you will have a bottleneck there. If you can find a "hybrid" 3/486 motherboard with VLB slots (with a VLB graphics card) then it would be interesting to see the performance comparison.

Still, I find the Cyrix/TI DLC & TI SXL CPU's very interesting.
So much that, back in 1993, I actually bought a Cyrix 486DLC-40 with its Cyrix math co-processor, instead of an Intel 486DX-33.

Reply 2 of 4, by feipoa

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The grey-topped Cyrix FasMath FPU's are a smidge faster than the black-top ones. Someone mentioned that the black-top FPUs changed something to increase compatibility at the small expensive of performance. Landmark is sensitive enough to see the difference in speed. Unfortunately, the grey-tops don't usually work with the SXL when clock doubling is enabled.

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 3 of 4, by Gahhhrrrlic

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Awesome thread! I have a PGA 132 version of the 486 SXL (9413FTB1 4031854). I recently read this website: https://x86.fr/the-uca-now-supports-ti486s-fe … sting-ti486sxl/ where the guy says an SXL 40 can be clock doubled by enabling a register if it's a B0 stepping. I have no idea if this applies to the 386 vintage but it sounds like it might.

A more general question I have is, other than this SXL-40, is there anything better for a 33MHz 386 setup? I mean if you can't change the crystal? I would obviously want to overclock the SXL2 but Feipoa says you can't do that. Maybe the silicon is no good. Then I heard there was a 33/66 with interposer in the works but I guess that's not done yet. So is there anything better for what I have now? I want to keep the bus speed high and the cache high for maximum benefit to the bottlenecked 386 and it seems the SXL-40 is the ticket. But it can't hurt to ask if there's something better.

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Reply 4 of 4, by feipoa

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You can use an SXL2, but you may need a black-topped or DLC type Cyrix FasMath when clock doubling. This may also depend on if you are using SCSI; I no longer recal the details. More info here: Re: Register settings for various CPUs The SXL2 is set to 1x by default. Use DOS software to set 2x. You will need to experiment with the math co-processor selection.

The SXL2-66/80 interposer board has been sufficiently finished for some time and it works well. Assembly may not be for everyone though. Evergreen and Powerleap also made an SXL2-66 interposer. Evergreen used the QFP chip while Powerleap used the PGA.

You can use a clock tripled IBM Blue Lightning BL3 at 66, 80, or 100 MHz. There are various upgrade options, from Evergreen to IODATA and Buffalo. Some photos in this thread: 386 upgrade kits and the Transcomputer 486HPi - Am5x86-160 anyone?

Sometimes the logic on this BL3 boards gets in the way of it working properly, so you may also want to take a BL3 chip and solder it to a 386DX QFP-to-PGA interposer, as shown here: Creating a voltage regulated 386 BL3 module from existing parts Some people also run at 5V and bypass the 3.3V.

Yes, you can change the crystal oscillator on your 386 board. You'd use a 66 MHz crystal oscillator for a 33 MHz FSB, an 80 MHz crystal for a 40 MHz FSB, etc. You can also make variable crystal oscillators, e.g.
386 Clock Generator Replacement
Re: Project: Full Can Clock Oscillator Replacement

The fastest upgrade options for a 386 are:

1) using a Transcomputer upgrade module with an Am5x86 at 160 MHz
2) using an IBM Blue Lightning BL3 upgrade module at 2x50 MHz or 3x33 MHz
3) using the custom PGA-168 to PGA-132 interposer PCB with SXL2-66 at up to 90 MHz (2x45). Nearly all CPU samples can run at 80 MHz with the right voltage.
4) use a Cyrix DRx2-66

Some 386 boards tend to be optimal with the BL3, like the SiS Rabbit, while others have benchmark numbers skew in favour of the SXL2 (Symphony Haydn II).

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.